System Ayane ground game

Trickster

New Member
I feel like a lot of information on Ayane's ground game and oki is kinda scattered and a little hard to come by, which was trouble since my ground game is mediocre and I suck Vs. opponents who don't tech. A lot of the time I find myself backing away with 7P or 1P+K, thus sacrificing my momentum when I could be applying a little pressure
So I was wondering if we could get a thread going about some force-tech setups, okizeme or just general ground game both at the wall and in open space. I'm sure I wouldn't be the only person to benefit too.

I'll guess start things off by listing off some things I already know

Something I reckon most of you already know is that if you finish a juggle with 6KK, the opponent is knocked down in a way where they must tech. If they don't, and decide to lie there, you're able to force-tech them up with 2H+K.

After a Wall-hit into PPP6K, input 3PK. The first hit will miss as they slump to the ground, but unless they tech, the K will connect, forcing them up. This is also possible with Wall hit -> BT+PP4PPP -> 3PK
This works the same way with with BT+PP6PK, but in this case you would input 6K2K instead of 3PK
Wall-hit -> PPP6K -> 3PK
Wall-hit -> BT+PP4PPP -> 3PK
Wall-hit -> BT+PP6PK -> 6K2K
However, you gotta remember that if your opponent does end up teching, you'll miss the second hit every time, setting you up for a punish, so careful how you use this one.
 

iHajinShinobi

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Ayane has solid ground game in open stance, full walls, half walls and invisible walls. I will post some of my tech tomorrow when I find some time.
 

iHajinShinobi

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
My wall okizeme I've developed in DOA5U, all completely relevant for Last Round (and was even in Vanilla). These are for both full walls and half walls.

If you're wondering what the difference is between full walls and half walls. Full walls, you fall down off the wall slowly, half walls, you just lightly fall down to the ground faster. So this actually changes up the amount of frames it takes for the wall splat opponent to fall down, it is important to know which walls are which on each stage if you are going to take full advantage of each situation.

Stages like Sky City Tokyo and Dead or Alive contain full walls. Stages like Arrival contain half walls.

FT Stance = Front Turn Stance
BT Stance = Back Turn Stance
SS = Side Step
WUK = Wake Up Kick

Full Wall Set Ups

Any kind of wallsplat followed by PP6PK wall combo on full walls.

1) 3PK - Will automatically force players off the ground if they decide not to tech up. Eliminates their WUK option completely, you're at +18 advantage. If you do 3P and free cancel and they tech up, you're at +23 or +18 (if they tech up to the side).

2) P > BT1P/BT1P2K - Jab is for a couple of things; timing on the BT1P, and to actually let the opponent know you're setting them up for something. If they do not tech up, BT1P hits them, but it will not force them up. BT1PK will force them up for +12. Being hit by the BT1P puts them in a mindgame of me finishing BT1PK or not, because I'm at +27 advantage if they tech up from just BT1P.

If a player decides they want to laze on the ground after the BT1P ground hit, I can do another BT1P to force them up and be at +22 (or BT2P to be at +23). And the thing about this kind of situation is that you cannot suddenly decide to tech up after the first ground hit if you didn't tech up when it hit you. So you're eating the second ground hit in this case.

If you do P > BT1P and they tech up, your BT1P whiffs and you're at -4, but you still have follow ups to BT1P and they cannot interrupt that, so they are forced to take a moment to block (or risk a hold). Meaning you are allowed to do something else anyway. Now, if you KNOW the opponent likes teching up a lot no matter what because they are just tech happy or fear the force tech situation(s). You can do just the jab free cancel alone and be left at +27, the doors are wide open to a plethora of strike mix ups from everything, literally (Front turn stance, Back turn stance, spins, side step tricks, etc).

3) Side step P+K - When done, you're at +27 advantage and left in BT stance, however you can obviously go FT stance for mix ups too. This also allows you to manipulate the camera too when players tech up so it furthers your mix up because it makes it a lot harder for opponents to see anything and screws up their blocking/holds. BT2P becomes that ground hit you want to use against players that decide to laze on the ground, followed up by another ground hit to force them up. But if they do get up from the BT2P, you're at +28, and that +28 goes hand in hand with your 1P+K strike options, especially the 1P+K P charged guard break.

- Side step P+K3 - When done, you're at +9 advantage and left in FT stance. Again, anytime you involve the SS P+K, you are also working with the camera angling too so keep this in mind when trying to work with strike mix ups (because that takes time getting used to, the last thing you want to do is set up a 3H+K afterward and you got 1H+K instead).

BT3K also becomes an unholdable low strike here on super light and light weight characters, and that gets pretty nasty with everything else you can do at +9. 3H+K is an i10 strike here so i10 jabs are the least of your worries (actually you don't have to worry, you're at +9 lol).

- Side step P+K free cancel > 1P+K - Remember, you're at +27 from the SS P+K set up, so you're options from 1P+K has the frame advantage. 1P+K K is practically i3 frames, while a [1P+K] P charge is i15 frames. In additon, the 1P+K leaves you in BT stance, so if you've been conditioning your opponent to block more often, then your strike options from BT stance open up.

Keep in mind, the SS P+K set ups are better against players that are tech happy or want to attempt to mix up their "I'm on the ground" options. This does not work on players that laze on the ground. You need to condition players for a set up this potent. However, SS P+K overall is the best option I utilize because I have every option ready to go BT1P/BT2P can still be used for frame tight oki if need be, while everything else is still attached to SS P+K.

4) 6P3 - Leaves you at +17, makes 66K (66KK4) an unholdable strike on super light and light weights. Also has the luxury of manipulating the camera angling. 6P3K will also ground hit and you can follow up with BT2P to force them up afterward. 6P3K does not hit frame perfect however, it's best used against players that willingly laze on the ground. The thing about it though is that people (even people who are unaware of frame data) know that BT3KKK can come from Ayane's 6P3, so they often do one of two things;

They tech up to avoid the lows, or they attempt a WUK. When you have players that tech up, you take advantage of that and set up for mix up ahead of time on read. For players that attempt the WUK, you can hold that on read, or flip over them, or flip away from them (yes on time).

5) 236H+KH - Leaves you at +19 advantage, and it is used strictly against players that are tech happy or players you've conditioned enough to tech up. Because 1H+K will whiff no matter what.

Half Wall Set Ups

Any kind of wallsplat followed by a PP6PK wall combo on half walls.

1) 6K2K - If players do not tech up, you're left at +18 advantage. If players tech up, you're at +5 advantage. Another thing I really love about this set up is that 6K has such a long delay into the 2K low, that it becomes an unseeable mix up. When Ayane does 6K, you have virtually no way of telling whether she is delaying or free canceling the 2K low. So you once you conditioned players to look for everything else that isn't a low, this can hit them. This is a very potent mid/low strike mix up.

On neutral hit it's +12, in threshold and counter hit it's +18 advantage. Now on a slippery surface is where this actually matters a lot more, you score a counter hit from the 2K/2H+K low, you get a deep slip stun for high damage.

2) Side step P+K - When done, you're at +20 advantage and left in BT stance. Just like with full walls, you have access to the SS P+K > 1P+K set ups. The difference though is that 1P+K K becomes i10 frames, [1P+K] P charged becomes i22 frames.

Universal Wall Set Ups

Any kind of wallsplat followed by a PP6K2K knockdown. Of course, you can obviously delay the timing of your 2K low to mix up the 6K2K knockdown.

1) 2H+K - When done, it'll force opponents up and leave you at +18 advantage. 2H+K is universal for walls and midscreen okizeme.

2) BT2P - Causes a ground hit, does not force a tech up, however leaves you at +28 advantage if players tech up. BT2P > 2P will force players off the ground and leave you at +24 advantage (BT1P can also force up and leave you at +22 and in BT stance).

3) 33P/33P2K - 33P causes a ground hit, does not force a tech up, however leaves you at +24 advantage if players tech up. 33P2K forces a tech up for +18 advantage. Just like the P > 1P/1P2K, 33P2K also sets up the mind game of the second low. If you don't tech up after 33P, the 2K will force you up.

4) BT2K - When done, it'll force players up and leave you at +14 advantage and in FT stance. Also keeps them position close to the wall, which is where you want them to be.

5) PP6K2K - This is a set up I keep at a minimum, and by doing so, it ALWAYS hits. You want your usual wallsplat, then you do PP DELAY into an immediate 6K2K. This will make the 6K whiff and allow the 2K low to force players off the ground. The delay after PP will vary on wall launch height, which will determine your whiffed 6K into the 2K low. This gives you an immediate +18 advantage and it is a real mind fuck against anyone because they never expect you to intentionally drop the PP wall juggle.

As I said, it's what I keep to a minimum, once it's used, smart players will look for it.

In open stance, if I'm playing to be aggressive for a knock down, I will end my juggle with a PP6K2K or 6K2K knock down. If the opponent tech rolls, Ayane is at +17 advantage with 66K (66KK4), 4K and H+K available as unholdable options (don't always lean into these options, but just know that they exist).

If the opponent doesn't tech roll, I tend to favor either 2H+K or BT1P. 2H+K techs the opponent up for +18, BT1P leaves Ayane at +27 if the opponent tech rolls, if not, do another BT2P for +22. Leaves her in BT stance.

I wouldn't recommend doing a naked 2H+K after a wall splat combo because it doesn't actually do anything unless the opponent is lazing on the ground. Its too easy to avoid and too easy to punish.
 

Trickster

New Member
Wow, amazing post.
Thanks a bunch Hajin, I'm messing aroud with some of this stuff now and it's pretty good. appreciated.

I'm especially loving the P > BT1P stuff right now.

I'm confused about the SS P+K frame advantage though.
Everytime I do wall-hit > PP6PK Wallhit > SS P+K, I'm always get +12 instead of the +27 advantage you mentioned.

Edit: Nevermind, I just found out that it's +27 as long as they tech.

Thanks again.
 

Lulu

Well-Known Member
Awesome..... makes me wonder if Ayane has Air Game too.....


So I Okizeme is the Ground Game...... whats the Air Game in Japanese ? "Air-kizeme" ?
 

iHajinShinobi

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Wow, amazing post.
Thanks a bunch Hajin, I'm messing aroud with some of this stuff now and it's pretty good. appreciated.

I'm especially loving the P > BT1P stuff right now.

I'm confused about the SS P+K frame advantage though.
Everytime I do wall-hit > PP6PK Wallhit > SS P+K, I'm always get +12 instead of the +27 advantage you mentioned.

Edit: Nevermind, I just found out that it's +27 as long as they tech.

Thanks again.

Yeah it is +27, you have to use the hidden frame data method and must be done immediately. Otherwise your numbers will be miscalculated.
 
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