System Changes for Eliot in "Dead or Alive 5 Last Round"

Jyakotu

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Charlotte, NC
Main Character
Ayane
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5215-1093-1238
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JyakotuKurayami
#1
Last Round is going to be the LAST iteration of the Dead or Alive 5 era. Eliot is considered the worst character in the game, and he kind of is. A lot of characters can rely on gimmicks in order to win, but Eliot doesn't really have any gimmicks he can use. The system itself has a lot going against Eliot as well, because he's slow, causes mediocre damage, and is Super Light weight. It's obvious that Eliot needs some changes, but what do you think those changes should be?

What I personally want:
  • Make him faster, even if it means that his damage has to suffer because of it.
  • Make him Middle weight or at least a Light weight, because it makes ZERO sense Marie Rose is Light while Eliot is Super Light.
  • If he's going to remain slow, at least buff up his damage for his holds/throws and/or combos.

I've stuck with Eliot since I started with Core Fighters and even though I had a moment of weakness, I still stuck with him. He's one of those fighting game characters that's easy to use, but hard to win with because there are characters (like his master, Gen Fu) that has better tools and that can do what he does better.
 

StrikerSashi

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Toronto
Main Character
Eliot
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StrikerSashi
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StrikerSashi
#3
Lightweight is only Ayane, Kasumi, Pai, Marie, Rose, and P4. Eliot is superlight.

As for changes, make 7P +5 on CH, +10 HiCH, slightly reduce knockback.

Make him lightweight.

Increase damage of FC3P by 3.

Make 1P stun 5f less on CH and HiCH.
 

TakedaZX

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Twilight Town
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TakedaZX
#6
Im almost 100% sure that super light does not exist. There's lightweight and then feather weight which is Alpha only? Where are you getting this made up weight?

And what are these game breaking combos as opposed to lightweight combos that are making Eliot take so much damage?
 

StrikerSashi

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Toronto
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Eliot
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StrikerSashi
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StrikerSashi
#7
Well, I mean, you can believe what you want, but there is a difference in launch height. Training mode even has a height listed. You can see that Kokoro is lighter than Marie Rose, who's lighter than Leifang, who's lighter than Christie.
 

TakedaZX

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Twilight Town
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TakedaZX
#9
And I ask again, what are these game breaking combos. It doesn't matter if someone is a super light if no matter what, the only combo available off the launch is pp6pk. There is no downside for Eliot.

Let's make some real complaints.

Now I've posted my list in the other topic but I'm not gunna get behind a weight change that isn't breaking the game.

Main things though... 13i mid, 9p stuns deeper again but not super deep. 3kp and 33p2p end crouching so be can instantly 3p like GenFu. Also 33p fixed to become a sabaki and stun rather than launch. Catching the sabaki will make the move 2in1 with the sitdown.

Also 8p should be sped up by one frame to give him way into the stun game off his Parries.

These are small things that help the character rather than this trivial claim about some height difference that is basically irrelevant.
 
Likes: David Gregg

Jyakotu

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Ayane
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#10
And I ask again, what are these game breaking combos. It doesn't matter if someone is a super light if no matter what, the only combo available off the launch is pp6pk. There is no downside for Eliot.

Let's make some real complaints.
Actually, the weight is a valid complaint, because Eliot can be juggled longer during certain character's combos. This makes no sense, given that he doesn't posses any threatening tools that should warrant him getting KO'd so quickly. If anything, he should at least be a middle weight.
 

TakedaZX

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Twilight Town
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TakedaZX
#11
It's probably because he's oh Idk.. a little bit smaller than the rest? And you claim about these combos that are much more damaging but can you give me at least 5 that are a difference of 5 points or more?

That's being generous too.

Like I said though, I'll take his speeds going up to 13i on his 6p but that's pretty much it as far as initial speeds.
 

TakedaZX

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Twilight Town
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TakedaZX
#13
It makes no sense that he's lumped with mostly female characters, especially ones that are taller like Mila and Sarah. Plus, Marie Rose is a weight class ABOVE him and I'm pretty sure she's smaller than her.
The reality is, she should be where he's at. But once again, please give me combos. Either you give them proof or its never going to happen so I'd say you either write em now, or search for them.

So what combos are making the game 5x harder?
 

XZero264

FSD | Nichol
Premium Donor
Glen Burnie, MD
Main Character
Leon
#14
The only character I can think of where super light and light combos make a difference is Nyotengu. She has a combo where on most of the cast she has to flight PK into air throw but on super lights she can flight PP flight P into air throw. It's not much of a difference in damage but there is still an extra strike in the combo. I posted it in the Nyotengu forums early on, one sec while I find it.

Addition edit:
Okay, I remembered wrong about the combo, it was
:41236::H+P: :8::P::P::P: :p+k: > Hiten :P: > :H+P: = 89 on Alpha and Super Lights

:41236::H+P::8::P::P::P: :p+k: > Hiten :H+P: = 85 for everybody else.

Making him at least one weight class heavier would be good for him even though many combos used against him won't change a lot.
 
Last edited:

TakedaZX

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Twilight Town
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TakedaZX
#16
The only character I can think of where super light and light combos make a difference is Nyotengu. She has a combo where on most of the cast she has to flight PK into air throw but on super lights she can flight PP flight P into air throw. It's not much of a difference in damage but there is still an extra strike in the combo. I posted it in the Nyotengu forums early on, one sec while I find it.

Addition edit:
Okay, I remembered wrong about the combo, it was
:41236::H+P: :8::P::P::P: :p+k: > Hiten :P: > :H+P: = 89 on Alpha and Super Lights

:41236::H+P::8::P::P::P: :p+k: > Hiten :H+P: = 85 for everybody else.

Making him at least one weight class heavier would be good for him even though many combos used against him won't change a lot.
Well... I don't see it as a super big thing but I'll fall back. That's still only two combos and neither of those combos break 5 points.

Regardless, if anything the ideas just need to be organized. I'll start a blog post with the list of things that should be added. Then we can add and cut things one by one.
 

TakedaZX

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Twilight Town
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TakedaZX
#17
Well anyway. I checked out Eliots damage. Besides his high kicks, his stun to launch damage is already good and for max threshold, he has good damage off of his 8k. I'd like it better if 3p+k was his go to launcher though.

On that note, I finished the list that I thought was reasonable.

Here's what I have so far.

7P - changed to +20 on CH+ (without SE)
6P - 13i
8P and 66P - 14i
33P - changed to shallow lift stun like Kokoro's 6k. Also changed to a mid sabaki that guarantees the follow up if you catch a mid.
33P2P and 3KP - Should end in crouching so that he can instantly h3p as his guaranteed launcher.
BT 4P - Bound at max threshold
9KK - Second kick relaunches allowing his stun launch damage to go from 66 to 76 assuming the combo to be stun 9kk, 2p+k46p
KP/KP+K - Mid Punch stomp that sits down for +16.
46P Variants - 0 on block
6P+K - Changed to Stun on BT opponents again.
3P+K variants - Launch height raised to match 8K.

I'll see you guys on making him a lightweight though... But honestly it's not that serious. I'm not pushing for it at all.
 
Last edited:
Likes: David Gregg
France
Main Character
Eliot
PSN ID
zephyrion22
#18
Yeah, frames are what needs to be changed for Eliot : just having a 14 frames natural stun move (not counting 3K's and 9K's abysmally bad stuns non-counter hit) would make his parry useful, and give him a little more edge in matches. and give him a true high launcher because come on, only having double highs or threshold highs to launch is retarded in a game where almost EVERY character has one normal high launcher (hence why I'd totally dig the 9KK change you're suggesting)
 

TakedaZX

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Twilight Town
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TakedaZX
#19
I mean his regular 9k is ok. If they didn't change it, it'd still be ok. I say this because of his stun to launch potential with it compared to the others. You can get 75 off of it with h3p, 2p+k46p which is basically the same as what he'd get off of 9kk for stun to launch. On that note he'd get a few new juggles with 9kk which is why my idea probably won't take off.

Regardless, I think if 46p gets a frame advantage increase to +1 then he'll be golden... But I'll take 0.
 

iThe Apprentice

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Los Angeles, California
Main Character
Eliot
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iThe Apprentice
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2036-8102-7978
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iThe-Apprentice
#20
So after some careful inspection and no success, it seems to me like they bumped up Eliots damage output. My friend RoyalMann told me about this from the recent Eliot vs Gen Fu trailer. I've gotta say, it does seem like it. But it might just be the fact that the fights are always fixed. I dunno, what do you guys think?
 
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