System Details of the Bokuho stance duck

WAZAAAAA

Well-Known Member
MECHANICS TO ACKNOWLEDGE FIRST:
In DOA5LR, 2 laws must be respected in order to land a strike on the opponent.
1. The hitbox of a strike must collide with the opponent's hurtbox. That also implies that you're not hitting the opponent during invincible frames which usually occur during universal Rising animations.
2. The statuses of both characters must not conflict. Some examples of "conflicts" include:
- Crouching status is invincible to High Punch/High Kick strikes (except when Airborne frames are involved)
- Down status is only vulnerable to strikes labelled as "Ground Strike". Every Low Punch/Low Kick shares such feature (with the exception of Honoka's Low Punch taunt). Only certain Medium Punches/Medium Kicks also do.
- Jump (evade lows) status is invincible to Low Punch/Low Kick strikes.
- Other unique move-specific statuses not shown in the Move Details, such as Helena's Bokuho 22, which this thread is going to discuss.



BOKUHO DUCK MOVE ANALYSIS:
Teishitsu also known as Bokuho duck (22 During Bokuho stance with Helena) is a move marked as "SP" in the Command List (which probably means Special Property).
It lasts for 16 frames. The entirety of those 16 frames have Crouching status, which means Highs are completely avoided, and they're also considered invincible from every strike in the game except for those with the Ground Strike property. It doesn't matter if the hitbox of your strike is clearly touching the ducking Helena, it would still not hit her because law #2 was not fulfilled.
You can start a Bokuho duck in a very short time by inputting 2P+K > 22 as fast as possible. Only 4+1 frames of animation are necessary to start ducking.



GLITCHES EXPLANATIONS:
However, you may think:
"I don't believe you, I was definitely able to hit an Helena out of her continous Bokuho ducking with a mid that doesn't have Ground Strike property, look!"
e3dhB1x.gif

NOTE: the recorded dummy in the GIF was tool assisted just to make sure that the Helena was constantly ducking, Down was being pressed 30 times per second, which is overkill
This happens thanks to the omnipresent glitch which also causes "Unholdables" to exist. Basically, between one duck animation to another, each time there's a "pause" of 1 idle animation frame. In the above GIF, Hayabusa has hit Helena during that single frame. I can hit her consistently with tool assistance.

Remember when I mentioned that Bokuho duck is only vulnerable to Ground Strikes? I WASN'T LYING.
Apparently, Bokuho duck is also vulnerable to 8P+K ground targeting strikes. I use Nyotengu because she has the slowest one in the game, which gives Helena more time to rise and enter Bokuho duck.



TL;DR
Bokuho duck is 16 frames - only "Ground Strikes" can hit it (Move Details page 2) - actually if you're lucky you can hit her during the "17th" too with most mids
 
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Goarmagon

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
I love your informative posts. Can you do a similar writeup for the Jakheiho @WAZAAAAA ? I have a hunch that its only 14 frames but I think many people(myself included) dont fully understand the nuance of that stance despite bitching about it.
 

WAZAAAAA

Well-Known Member
I love your informative posts. Can you do a similar writeup for the Jakheiho @WAZAAAAA ? I have a hunch that its only 14 frames but I think many people(myself included) dont fully understand the nuance of that stance despite bitching about it.
My guess is that together with having high/mid invincibility (or crushing abilities call them however you want), it also has invincibility against non-tracking moves (sidestep frames). But that's just a guess, I didn't even use that move yet.
I may or may not make an indepth thread about evasive moves in general such as Minuet, Jakheiho and Tank Wheel now that I understand better how crushing properties have been implemented into this game.
 

AlexXsWx

Active Member
I think "SP" in command list means "special position" aka stance, e.g. Back turned. For the [BKH]22 it means than after execution it ends up in the special position, namely Bokuho.
 

WAZAAAAA

Well-Known Member
I think "SP" in command list means "special position" aka stance, e.g. Back turned. For the [BKH]22 it means than after execution it ends up in the special position, namely Bokuho.
I think SP is a more generic term because charge attacks, crush moves, movement moves, backturned transitions, stance transitions, some ground throws and some other stuff all seem fall into this label. We should ask Team Ninja what that means lol.

We shouldn't consider the labels shown on the Command List as 100% reliable though, because apparently they are "hand made" and not automatic thus prone to human errors by the developers e.g. Jann Lee's wall 236T is shown as OH, but it's not.
 

VAND1TA

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Thanks for this though full information, now to try and use it in practice!
 
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