DOA is not Dying - but the men are

[deathofaninja]

It's not a secret to anyone that follows DOA that the fighting game has been going down a slippery slope and has been held on its back by Hoodless and other community efforts exclusively for the past two years. Since 2020, Koei Tecmo has experienced a shift in popularity from the fighting game to the spin-off: Dead or Alive Xtreme: Venus Vacation. What does this mean for the male fighters in the future if it wasn't already apparent, they were being under-featured in Dead or Alive 6?

DOA6 DLC was really pricey, and it wasn't anything too special, but what wasn't surprising was the little effort that was put into male DLC. It wasn't surprising because females took the forefront in DOA5 as well, but it wasn't as bad and evident as it is with DOA6. Out of all the DLC characters there wasn't a single featured male and nor was there a return of Leon.

KT has always believed that the female characters are more successful, and they pointed out their reasoning with female DLC costumes selling better in the days of DOA5, and now with the booming success of Venus Vacation you can safely assume they will turn half of these girls (at least) into fighters.

When a fighting game gets bad press like DOA6 you can tell if the company liked the publicity or not really quick with how they respond to it on social media. KT did NOT like the press they got for their hair rental service and pricey season passes.

Typically, when a company is trying to recover with a game that didn't go well for a sequel, they will try restructuring it so that they can shuffle the audience while attempting to churn as much profit as they can. What better way to do it than by eliminating the male character in their eyes?

Let's face it, the only male DOA character KT cares about is Hayabusa because he makes the company profit. Now in KT's eyes this is what makes profit for them from Team NINJA IPs: DOA female characters, Nioh and Hayabusa.

Who is making noise about male characters? People that don't like DOAX: Venus Vacation. How do we eliminate that voice? By replacing all of the male characters with female characters.

We do this by putting DOA7 on Zack Island which has proven to have many fightable locations with our WONDERFUL copy-cat character Honoka teaching all of these girls that can't fight the different fighting styles that she competed against in previous tournaments.

Then we receive profits the same way we do from the VV model: gacha! Of course, KT would view this as a test run to see if money could be made and if it did they would feel like they are back on the map.

So I'm calling it right now DOA7 is not going to be the same game we are used to if it even happens at all. I believe Team NINJA cares or cared about the male characters, but NOT KT. I think they view them like they are in the way of making more money.

So with that being said does my nightmare idea sound like a feasible thing for the company to try doing, do you think they would laugh at it? Would you play a DOA game that is advertised as an all female fighter if the game mechanics were solid? Would you be able to live with males not being in the game even if it was just one installment? It's just a scary idea that went through my head and I wanted to express my fears.

 

[KasumiLover]

I understand the fear but with Master as the CM and with how varied the competitive player base is, I don't think they'll get rid of the male characters anytime soon. The girls are viewed as more important and they are a bigger selling point so the worst they'll do is what they did in 6, where they give the girls the most costumes to unlock and the most hair options while the guys will have like two unlockables but they've always done that since DOA4 and dlc will just be the same as it's always been, oversaturated and focused on the girls again xD

They wouldn't remove the male characters because even tho the Japanese demographic doesn't care about them, TN knows western players care more about them and the males(mainly the vets) are just as iconic as the girls even if they're not as profitable. I don't think the voice you're saying is that vocal to where they'll take the guys out since I think the VV demographic is actually neutral about the guys

TN wouldn't do anything that foolish, especially since they know we already have people who will be quick to bitch and complain about the Xtreme and VV series and anyone who remotely finds enjoyment from it since there's no guys in the same scenario as the girls in that game, so they won't open up that can of worms unless they want even more headaches.

 

[deathofaninja]

I don't think Team NINJA would be happy about selling the game this way, that's never been an issue at this point, but I do think that KT is leaning in a direction where there will be heavier involvement with female characters.

KT will always lean more to what is profitable and Team NINJA will hopefully always lean more to what is quality.

Either way I am a man that has visions and there are good ones and bad ones. This was a bad one but felt like a possible one as well.

 

[Awesmic]

DOAXVV in particular is its own separate universe from the established canon in DOA, and its exclusive characters - while designed by Team Ninja - aren't technically theirs, if Tamaki's guest DLC character classification in DOA6 is any indication.

Unless KT intends to pull off an SNK Heroines and create a non-canon fighting game based on that with even lighter mechanics than the DOA series (which is already pushing it), I don't see how throwing in every single DOAXVV character in a fighting game would work.

However!

If there is at least one character worth retconning into DOA and NG's shared universe as canon that could make a potential impact on the supernatural lore of DOA and NG's shared universe (and building on Nyotengu's comical but lackluster debut narratively in DOA6), it must be Kanna, full stop. And I suppose Tamaki works too 'cause we need a token aikido fighter and she's kinda there now. That, and Brad Wong can never have too many drinking buddies.

 

[deathofaninja]

Nu-TN can't design good male characters to save their life. Rig is like the only exception.

Hayabusa is an exception in terms of look. I think Bass in DOA6 looked really cool, his default costume especially. I know that Rig has been incredibly popular. It's too bad they couldn't have put a little more polish on characters like: Bayman and Raidou. Both characters have seen SOME success in tournaments with Hoodless giving Raidou his first tournament win and Rikuto of course - but damn the lack of polish really makes me wonder what the direction will be for males in the future.

 

[KasumiLover]

Hayabusa is an exception in terms of look. I think Bass in DOA6 looked really cool, his default costume especially. I know that Rig has been incredibly popular. It's too bad they couldn't have put a little more polish on characters like: Bayman and Raidou. Both characters have seen SOME success in tournaments with Hoodless giving Raidou his first tournament win and Rikuto of course - but damn the lack of polish really makes me wonder what the direction will be for males in the future.

I think for Bayman they made him too stiff since in LR he's good but I feel they gutted whoever was strong in LR because Ayane and Christie and Leifang aren't nearly as strong anymore but the flawed characters like Eliot, Phase, Nyo, and even Kasumi are arguably the opposite this time now xD

Raidou I can't say much about since I don't really know anyone who uses him regularly like that but his issues could be fixed if they buffed his GB pressure and gave him better defensive moves to work with, he's way too hard for someone who's not the rewarding compared to a Phase 4 or Akira who were way higher execution but in their recent DOA games they're strong to match their skill gaps

 

[Rikuto]

There is the saying that "Sex sells".

And it is true. Sex is a guaranteed seller. But the lesson that KT seems to be incapable of learning is that it also limits the upper threshold of your potential audience.

So while I can certainly see them doing something like this, I do not see it actually being successful to any degree. It will do about as well as DOA games usually do, and they will have yet another identity crisis as a result of that failure.

 

[UpSideDownGRUNT]

The original post is very optimistic that there even will be a DOA7 lol

Other than that though, I'm inclined to agree mostly. DOA is not dying but imo the fighting game is, will DOA7 happen eventually? maybe but there's more of a chance of seeing DOAX Venus Vacation 2 before that ever happens.

 

[deathofaninja]

The original post is very optimistic that there even will be a DOA7 lol

Other than that though, I'm inclined to agree mostly. DOA is not dying but imo the fighting game is, will DOA7 happen eventually? maybe but there's more of a chance of seeing DOAX Venus Vacation 2 before that ever happens.

Here let me sound a little less optimistic:

Now that masks are coming off and less people are in quarantine, I see myself giving DOA6 one more big push. If it doesn't work out and there is no sign of life - I'm personally throwing in the towel with my front-page promotional material for the site. I have a serious passion for the players and the entertainment value of DOA and it's my dream to be a main-line promoter of this series. I feel very bitter and sour over the past few years and I'm trying to look past all that so I can see a ray of positivity with this god damn franchise and move forward.

People leaving (and people that possibly could leave) is extremely discouraging and troubling to hear. For DOA6 I wanted the players we had with DOA5 with a nice mixture of new and it didn't happen.

The positive:

I've seen quite a few people find a game they liked with DOA6 and that brings some levity to the situation. I'm catching myself up with quite a bit of material I missed due to personal obligations. I can say the tournament gameplay has improved and some players have definitely refined their skills. Bourne, Killsumi, Big Dame, Johnny Flash to name a few. I also think Hoodless has done terrific work as a champion for the game.

 

[TheHunterKiller692]

I don't think they'll get rid of the male characters anytime soon. The girls are viewed as more important and they are a bigger selling point so the worst they'll do is what they did in 6, where they give the girls the most costumes to unlock and the most hair options...

Which would be fine if you could actually unlock them without the weird gacha system 6 ended up implementing. I doubt it'd make a difference with men getting more outfits.

 

[TheHunterKiller692]

Here let me sound a little less optimistic: If it doesn't work out,... I'm personally throwing in the towel with my front-page promotional material for the site.

If that does happen, do you have a contingency plan for whom you'd appoint in your stead?

 

[TheHunterKiller692]

There is the saying that "Sex sells". Sex is a guaranteed seller. But the lesson that KT seems to be incapable of learning is that it also limits the upper threshold of your potential audience.
It will do about as well as DOA games usually do, and they will have yet another identity crisis as a result of that failure.

Alternatively, I happen to think that they're homing in on the main characters a lot as mascots, like Kasumi or Marie Rose. However, loli content in Japan hasn't been impacted by anything from the west, so you see more Marie Rose pfps on Twitter, and they almost always play Venus Vacation.

 

[TheHunterKiller692]

The original post is very optimistic that there even will be a DOA7 lol

LMAO I don't think Japanese fans would be content with JUST DOA 7 releasing, if it ever does.

 

[Kodachi]

DOA without male characters would be a travesty
DOAXVV girls are getting out of hand with same face/0 personality formula
DOA7 should be focused on Esport placements

 

[TheHunterKiller692]

DOA7 should be focused on Esport placements

I think there should be a compromise between that and casual players like me who want to go easy on newcomers. And while I don't have much of a gold standard on DOA, I can say without a doubt that Punishere might not be comfortable if people considered Leifang low-tier for competitive play.

 

[KasumiLover]

I think there should be a compromise between that and casual players like me who want to go easy on newcomers. And while I don't have much of a gold standard on DOA, I can say without a doubt that Punishere might not be comfortable if people considered Leifang low-tier for competitive play.

Imo that's what ranked match and lobby match selections are for so that way new players can play with people on their level and higher levels can play with their own levels, I never really understood players who enjoy fighting players who are far below their skill level for easy wins, it just looks corny imo

And Leifang is already one of the weaker characters in 6 atm and he does play her so I don't think he cares much. Tiers imo don't matter especially if the player themselves can make the characters work

 

[TheHunterKiller692]

Imo that's what ranked match and lobby match selections are for so that way new players can play with people on their level and higher levels can play with their own levels.

Well, I'm more thinking it like this: DOA 4 Lobbies, DOA 5 Ranked System and Danger Zones (which you can turn off before starting a match) and rollback netcode should be enough. IDK if anyone would want crossplay.

Leifang is already one of the weaker characters in 6 so I don't think he cares much. Tiers don't matter, especially if the player themselves can make the characters work.

I was more of the belief that he feels that a competitive focus would kill any game that uses it, but I don't always believe him on it. Any genre does have a lot of the mentality of "Let ME bring these tactics to the table.", and in team-based games, that's mostly the difference between taking fat dubs and holding Ls.

 

[TPosePhobia]

I'd probably still play if the gameplay/mechanics were good. If it was its own seperate game, cool. But if it was DOA7 i'd be kinda pissed.

Edit: they could just sexualise the dudes in the same way. nobody complains. bang. (i am joking here btw)

 

[TheHunterKiller692]

I'd probably still play if the gameplay/mechanics were good. If it was its own seperate game, cool.

I'm thinking the same thing. Although the same could be said for DOA 6.

 

[Project Bokuho]

Although KT is very incompetent when it comes to certain things, I doubt an idea like this (ex: All girl DOA fighting game entry) will be a reality. They already got a lot of heat for things that happened with DOA6. If they were smart, they wouldn't try that a second time.