DOA6 Hayabusa

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
Twilight Town
Main Character
PSN ID
TakedaZX
Starting a trend here. First Hayate now Busa.

I used to mess around with Busa in 4 and after DOA5 released I almost mained him simply because I felt he was a strong character in Vanilla. He had plenty of untechable set ups, good frame advantage and he'd just gotten buffed to have a regular 10i jab.

But Team Ninja kept changing him and some aspects are nice but he still lacks some of his main necessities.

For one thing he has no way to combat low jab in Ongyoin/Nin stance at 12i. I'm not saying he shouild be able to beat out every low jab with an offensive option but he should at least have defensive options within the stance. So this list will address that issue among others.

More over... to me even though he is a ninja, all these multi hit moves (44P, WS H+K, 3H+K) don't fit him in my eyes. He's a dragon clan ninja and I've always know him to have strong deep hits... So these will be addressed too.

New Moves

7P+K - Spinning Mid Punch (Think Ryu's while running heavy attack (Y or Triangle in Ninja Gaiden). Not sure what would be fair for the hit stun and block properties but the point would be for him to use this as a long ranged get in move that hopefully replaces WR H+K. I feel that move is hella out of place.

WR H+K - This needs to go.

3KK - Not really new. We'll go back to the DOA4 one (tracking kick that knocks down and hops lows)

I don't know why they scrapped it other than it hopping lows but if that's the real problem we know they can simply remove the crush frames. This is for style more so than anything.

It doesn't have to be standalone anymore. Some characters lack a mid tracking attack and his tracking mids are relatively good. (4P, 44P, 3P+K, etc.)

3H+K - This move should only hit once. I like the animation but not the nature of the two hit knockdown. Personally I believe this should return to its DoA4 properties o being a single hit ground bounce launcher... even if that launch is only enough to get a low juggle. But before I talk about those I'll talk about its guard properties.

On block it should guard break for safety at low - since it's losing a hit so I'm thinking -8 so it's punishable at the wall.

But it'll also transition into Ongyoin if you press 4 so that would leave him at maybe... -4 so that he can still be harassed for being stupid and hitting buttons but safe in the open and possibly get out of trouble.

For NH launch it should be so low that all he gets is an untechable 2p from maybe bound launch that he recovers to slow to follow up off of.

On stun to launch he could get 6pk, 8kk.. or an air throw. Just double hit type stuff mostly.

On CH is where it will get nutty cause he'll get the 4K type stun to launch height which will result in Ongyoin K hitting and him being able to get an air throw after or a well timed WR 4KP/WR 4KK.

On max launch he'll get his normal juggles like Ongyoin K, 8P, WR 4KP/WR 4KK or PP4P6P.

I would like for it to be able to hit in juggles too off of PP4PK but I'm fine with it not. It gives reason for PP4P6P to be used which is fine with me.

44PP - I can't argue the utility of this move. Fast tracking at 16i. Double hit. NH stun... Safe... But I don't like the move itself. I feel like TN made the worst designs on moves in this game that they ever have.

I'd rather this move be separated into two individual hits. Perhaps they could make it like 44PP and instead of two hits in the same direction it will be a chop followed by a back spin chop like Ongyoin PP but make the first hit nice shallow stun and the second hit a deeper stun but no delay frames so you must commit to be safe as well as continue the stun game and end up in back turned but there should be no guard break follow up though.

4P already checks step to start the stun game so this should be fine as is.

33K - Needs to be scrapped. No one uses it and the only thing it's been useful for is one untechable set up. It doesn't need to be anything more.

8KK - Exchange damage to be higher than 6KP by a few points.

6KP - Exchange damage to be lower than 8KK but in turn get a better ground bounce for combos early juggle or an untechable ground hit.

WR 4K - Increase damage to give a better reward for opting to do the harder combo ender.

3P+K and 33P - I believe this should become his mid crush launcher. It's by no means bad but it's heavily neglected outside of his untechable set ups because of its capped damage ceiling because of his juggle options from back turned.

With it being a mid crush that would make it more threatening and actually be utilized.

Originally I wanted to opt for this on 3PP but as a frame trap and a uninterruptable mid low mix-up... that'd be a bit strong... but it was available in DOA4 and man was it powerful back then... now that Ongyoin recovers faster it's too much... But if we can get it to high crush consistently earlier in the animation that's solid in itself.

I just want to beat jabs.

Ongyoin/Nin Stance

Ongyoin 2K - After scrapping 33K, this should change to 1K as an option which will be better on NH. I vote for a frame trap on transition back into Ongyoin. The aim would be to make the move +0/+1 on a meaty hit so one active frame should be taken away to avoid +2.

In turn they would simply have to make the transition faster in Ongyoin only so that he can receive these + frames because increasing the + frames on just the kick would possibly cause Hayate PP2KP syndrome. On CH it does not stun because it goes from -7 to -6 making the 2KP a 2 in 1 which we don't want to see in Hayabusa's 1KP I assure you.

Ongyoin 7PP - This will be his true defensive answer to low punches. His normal 7P back flip will be available from Ongyoin. The OH, headbutt and flip to switch sides will still apply.

The second P is to keep people from mashing it out to avoid continuous flipping at a ridiculous rate. If doesn't say Nin before you press the next P he will flip again and do his little taunt Nin taunt and reset to neutral giving the opponent a chance to punish double back flip.

Throws and Holds

Advanced Mid Kick Hold - Gimme the camera angles of the throw version. Please.

I'm done. Ciao!
 
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Jaguar360

Well-Known Member
Main Character
Ryu Hayabusa
I want to see the handstand come back in a form more like DOA3, but it might get Hayabusa overloaded with that + Ongyoin. I guess it has been passed to Brad Wong. If they were to both be part of his moveset, it could work if 2P+K started the handstand and the main way to enter Ongyoin would be 214P+K where he steps back while entering the stance. Options out of handstand would be K (the high kick in current handstand), P (same punch from current rising 4KP), T (current offensive hold rising 4T), 2K (a new low sweep), and cancelling with H.

Definitely agree w/ scrapping 33K and it's Ongyoin 2K counterpart, so useless. I think 1K would be a good substitute in the Ongoyin stance.

Current 1K needs either more stun or less lag imo, it's also not very useful in its current state, even to go into Ongyoin. Hayabusa doesn't really have any quick lows aside from 2P which is kinda mediocre, so giving this a buff would be really nice.

44PP is a odd and awkward, but something about it looks cool in its own way imo and does have nice utility as you said. I'd be fine with reworking it or scrapping it though, it's not essential.

Rising H+K/Helicopter kick should stay imo, it's awesome. Not that useful, but awesome.

I love the other changes you suggested, Ongyoin 7PP and the expert mid kick hold camera angles especially. I've gotta play DOA3 and DOAD some more to see if there's anything else I wanted when I was playing DOA more often.
 

WAZAAAAA

Well-Known Member
if Brad Wong is allowed to have 6 stances and 203 moves I don't see why busa can't get his glorious handstand stance back
also his sick 1K break dance moves that shit was dope
 

Brute

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
236K should make a return.
33K should be a hit throw that leads into his advanced mid K hold animation.
3H+K should return to it's old, guard-break iteration.
4PP should be +0/+1 on guard.
2H+K should function like other 2H+K-type attacks.

Ongyoin needs to be scrapped entirely or receive a complete overhaul. Less/no teleports in favor of genuine mix-ups would be nice.
Give him at least one NH low that doesn't completely suck ass.
Fix the hitboxes on his low crushes.
Nerf the shit out 33P.
1KP/PP2KP should have some functional purpose or be removed. 44P and WRH+K should be removed altogether.
Throw speeds should be standard rather than grappler speed.
 
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