Early steps of the ladder

[Arcane]

I finally started pushing myself to play ranked a bit more. I do not have a history of playing super competitively in games and I get quite a bit of ladder anxiety, especially at the start of a gaming session. It takes a few games before my nerves calm down some. Usually my mind goes blank at the start of the round and any semblance of strategy or execution goes out the door when the announcer says "Fight!". I do feel it's getting better though. I think I just need to keep playing more and get it out of my system. Also, I need to set my expectations to be in line with my ability. I tend to put unreasonable demands on myself.

Last night I played for about an hour on PC and about two hours on PS4. Thankfully there were no lack of opponents on either platform and only had two repeats, one being a Leifang player and the other being a Lisa player. The Lisa player was very representative of the fighting style I'm experiencing at the lower ranks. Seems like most players find two or three moves that can be tricky for other low-ranked players to deal with and just repeat those moves over and over again. Usually these are guard breaks or moves with incredibly difficult to deal with hit boxes. I do not hold it against them as I'm as much a beginner as they are and they are just trying to find their edge in the match. These moves do have proper counters. I'm not saying they are cheap, overpowered or unfair. They are just moves that can really put you in a tough spot if you don't respond appropriately, which can be tough to do as a beginner in the heat of the moment.

The Lisa player handily won the first two rounds of our first match. It felt like she was able to effortlessly beat out my options and the proceed with the beatings. For the third round, I decided to take a step back and stop throwing myself at her. Instead, I gave her space and just watched what she did. Her pattern from neutral started to become obvious and I was able to squeeze in between her attacks. I was unable to optimize my damage as I either got too excited and just mashed buttons once I landed an opening hit or was dropping some of my combos when I did get a proper combo sequence going. The combos I did complete, however, felt good . Regardless, I was able to turn the situation around from 0-2 to a 3-2 victory. On the rematch, I was also able to win at 3-1.

My matches with this player forced me to re-evaluate how I was approaching combat in general. I was not abusing my character's strengths the way my opponents were abusing theirs nor did I have a game plan, also unlike them. I mostly started the matches defensively and played re-actively without a plan of action, which in retrospect meant I was always yielding initiative. The Lisa player kept spamming a series of kick attacks from neutral that usually resulted in a launch and she would always follow with the same basic attack sequence. I doubt it was an optimal combo but at least she was able to execute it consistently. Her plan was simple but she at least had one and it was one that she could work with.

After our two matches, I took a 10 minute break to really think about why I wasn't exploiting my character's strengths. I realized that it was because, in my head, I was fighting veterans that knew my character inside out and were anticipating the attacks my character is good at so I wasn't doing them. I decided to abandon that idea and see what happens. The results proved how mistaken I was. The night ended with my first 10 victory win-streak as my opponents kept falling for the *ahem* "better" attacks my character could throw at them. None of them were really able to adapt. There were moments were I was convinced I was going to be countered or held because it was like the 8th time I was doing the same telegraphed sequence in the same match. But nope, clean hits all around.

I know this won't last. Eventually players will not fall for these tactics and I personally do not want to use character gimmicks as a crutch. My real problem, however, was that I was fighting people based on the way I thought they would play and was not paying attention to how they were *actually* playing. My second biggest problem was that I needed to have a decisive plan of action for starting the round and accept that no plan has a 100% success rate. Starting defensive felt good because it was safe but I was sacrificing more than I realized by yielding initiative.

The last few matches of the night were particularly satisfying. Instead of pulling back, I would usually start with a 2P which almost always landed as a counter hit to my opponent's high attacks, then follow it with either PP into a combo or 6K2K into 6T. This initial strike sequence helped set the tone of the match and I noticed my opponents were considerably less brazen afterwards. The very last match of the night was against the same Lisa player from before where I closed it very comfortably at 3-0 and he declined the rematch. Not gonna lie, that felt good after how befuddled I felt during the first few rounds of our first match prior in the evening.

I'm getting off my cloud though. I only just made C- by the end of the night so I still have a long ways to go. I expect some thorough beat downs are coming my way as my rank increases. The big take-away is to really analyze what you're doing and take responsibility for it. Don't blame the hit boxes or the characters or their moves or the stages for your failures. Realize that, often times, your opponents are winning because of your mistakes more than anything else.

I will see what tonight's matches have in store for me but I'm very much looking forward to playing more.

 

[Arcane]

Was able to squeeze in a few more matches over the weekend. Made it to C and am now a few matches away from C+.

Hardest match-ups for me have been against Christie. I hear she's pretty unsafe however I get counter hit more often than not when it's supposed to be my turn. I'm probably just taking too long to counter-attack. Will need to work on that.

Also fought a Tina that mopped the floor with me. It was mostly my stupidity. I kept taking her bait and never really adapted. Saved that replay so that I can take my time going over it and figure out what I should have done.

Fought my first rage quitter. It was a Bayman. I don't know how to play Bayman but I've seen enough Rikuto to understand how he operates. Mostly stuck to opening-strikes-into-throws which resulted in a lot of Hi Counter Throws. He disconnected right after I closed the third round.

I'm starting to realize that my wake-up game is weak. I'm starting to fight players that are good at timing moves so that they land right as my wake-up kicks go into recovery. These include a roundhouse kick from Hitomi, a stomp attack from Diego and a flip from Tina. I will need to be mindful of these and should also figure out what my version of these crushing attacks are.

 

[DestructionBomb]

A pretty good topic you brought up. Pretty good that you try to analyze some of the things. Maybe some areas could just be match up related and obtaining experience. I've also seen cases where someone who's new to DOA would try to hold out of everything including light stuns. An example is that there are some stuns you don't necessarily have to hold after, as holding extends stuns leaving more options for an opponent to take advantage of. Not to say that you do, but it's alright to be in a situation where you hold out of things you generally don't have to, even veteran players tend to hold in situations where they don't truly have to.

Here's one: light stuns such as Bayman's 6K. These types of stuns usually leave the opponent at +9 so it guaranteeds nothing, but if you the player holds right after that, you increased the advantage from +9 to +17 making any other follow up land, even a throw (Bayman's 6K may not be +9 at all so it's just an example seeing as DOA6 is different due to the removal of SE and leaving the game in "Fast" state, but there are light stuns).

Hardest match-ups for me have been against Christie. I hear she's pretty unsafe however I get counter hit more often than not when it's supposed to be my turn. I'm probably just taking too long to counter-attack. Will need to work on that.

It's alright. Mostly every other character have issues with Christie, particularly the slower characters. Christie's damage output is also relatively weak in NH state including the throws, but CH is where the character thrives out when it comes to priority. CH options grants new stuns with higher advantage that leaves you guessing in yomi quite often vs Christie.

Also fought a Tina that mopped the floor with me. It was mostly my stupidity. I kept taking her bait and never really adapted. Saved that replay so that I can take my time going over it and figure out what I should have done.

The current system helps Tina quite a bit in DOA6, might even be one of Tina's strongest games within the series. The removal of FTs can condition someone to stay on the ground giving Tina options for damage, which in turn also conditions an opponent to "always" tech up vs Tina, but because they tech up, this allows Tina to go for options (such as unholdable) to where they have to respect follow ups or eat a throw/OH on wake up. Grapplers with ground throws have it pretty good in this DOA version.

I'm starting to realize that my wake-up game is weak. I'm starting to fight players that are good at timing moves so that they land right as my wake-up kicks go into recovery. These include a roundhouse kick from Hitomi, a stomp attack from Diego and a flip from Tina. I will need to be mindful of these and should also figure out what my version of these crushing attacks are.

There are also different types of timing when it comes to wake up. You can even side tech into a wake up kick. Wake up attacks are a lot more powerful in this version as the invulnerability in DOA6 was increased along with the removal of FTs. It's alright though, good to see that you are trying to evolve. I recommend to hop in the lab one day to combine this sort of central mixup to side tech or back tech differently, and then side tech wake up kick. That way, you can make an opponent commit for them to attack expecting you to whiff a wake up kick again.

 

[Arcane]

holding extends stuns leaving more options for an opponent to take advantage of.

You know what? I never put those two together but it makes perfect sense now that you mention it. I don't try to hold out of everything, only when I'm reasonably certain I know what's coming next. But it never occurred to me how this scenario creates a beneficial situation for my opponent. Thinking back on it, I fought a very difficult set against a Honoka where she kept using her hugging throw to good effect. And now that you mention this, it was exactly what I was doing: I was holding thinking she was going to use one of her launchers while she just stood there and waited for the hold. She was actually able to do a hard read and follow with a throw because I was extending the stun by holding. That adds up.

Christie's damage output is also relatively weak in NH state including the throws, but CH is where the character thrives out when it comes to priority. CH options grants new stuns with higher advantage that leaves you guessing in yomi quite often vs Christie.

I see. OK that helps explain the difficulty of that situation.

There are also different types of timing when it comes to wake up. You can even side tech into a wake up kick. Wake up attacks are a lot more powerful in this version as the invulnerability in DOA6 was increased along with the removal of FTs. It's alright though, good to see that you are trying to evolve. I recommend to hop in the lab one day to combine this sort of central mixup to side tech or back tech differently, and then side tech wake up kick. That way, you can make an opponent commit for them to attack expecting you to whiff a wake up kick again.

I will do just that.

Thanks for the advice. Plenty for me to chew on.

 

[DestructionBomb]

You know what? I never put those two together but it makes perfect sense now that you mention it. I don't try to hold out of everything, only when I'm reasonably certain I know what's coming next. But it never occurred to me how this scenario creates a beneficial situation for my opponent. Thinking back on it, I fought a very difficult set against a Honoka where she kept using her hugging throw to good effect. And now that you mention this, it was exactly what I was doing: I was holding thinking she was going to use one of her launchers while she just stood there and waited for the hold. She was actually able to do a hard read and follow with a throw because I was extending the stun by holding. That adds up.



I see. OK that helps explain the difficulty of that situation.



I will do just that.

Thanks for the advice. Plenty for me to chew on.

Yep, happens to everyone so no worries aha (the brain tells us to do it despite not intentionally trying to). It's also one of the cases where you can develop this sort of panic where "any" stun regardless of how heavy/light it is can make someone hold, especially with different hit states (NH/CH/HiC). In Hi-counter status (HiC for short), people are more often to hold and panic in this state because HiC damage is 150% damage increase in stun. Hi-Counter stun states only happens when you are trying to go for a throw and someone attacked you or vice-versa (which goes to the format of the Rock/Paper/Scissor on strikes beating throws). This can be a scenario where because you attacked someone in HiC state, they are more often to hold simply because the fear of the damage output with whatever comes next, in that placement you can condition someone to hold and then go for your most damaging throw etc. since they expected you to continue the stun game or immediately launch so they tried to hold, there's a lot of central situations that can go on. Getting hit on NH is the state where people generally hold less due to it being the weakest state and the lowest amount of damage. Course, it's also dependent to who has the life lead. You definitely want to hold at some point if someone has a bigger health lead than you and keeping back regardless of hit state.

I will say that the post you made is refreshing to see. It's good to see someone trying to learn as spreading information can help someone, which in turn, that someone can help another and then the information spreads as it should be. Learning can take weeks, months, sometimes even years, so I say take your time as long as you need. There will come a point where everything in matches start to click.

Check in with Manny (MASTER) on social media and Wazaaaa here on FSD for any other missing information as they may have a video or thread with information you might ask in the future. There is also @Force_of_Nature who's still doing character guides along with other bits in video format via DOA6. You should check that in whenever for other missing information.

 

[Arcane]

Yep, happens to everyone so no worries aha (the brain tells us to do it despite not intentionally trying to). It's also one of the cases where you can develop this sort of panic where "any" stun regardless of how heavy/light it is can make someone hold, especially with different hit states (NH/CH/HiC). In Hi-counter status (HiC for short), people are more often to hold and panic in this state because HiC damage is 150% damage increase in stun. Hi-Counter stun states only happens when you are trying to go for a throw and someone attacked you or vice-versa (which goes to the format of the Rock/Paper/Scissor on strikes beating throws). This can be a scenario where because you attacked someone in HiC state, they are more often to hold simply because the fear of the damage output with whatever comes next, in that placement you can condition someone to hold and then go for your most damaging throw etc. since they expected you to continue the stun game or immediately launch so they tried to hold, there's a lot of central situations that can go on. Getting hit on NH is the state where people generally hold less due to it being the weakest state and the lowest amount of damage. Course, it's also dependent to who has the life lead. You definitely want to hold at some point if someone has a bigger health lead than you and keeping back regardless of hit state.

Hmm.. Yeah so far my thinking has been pretty binary: either I'm in a deep stun or I'm not. Not really factoring in if I'm in NH, CH or HiC state. I'll have to be mindful of that in order to determine how much I have to risk holding.

I will say that the post you made is refreshing to see. It's good to see someone trying to learn as spreading information can help someone, which in turn, that someone can help another and then the information spreads as it should be. Learning can take weeks, months, sometimes even years, so I say take your time as long as you need. There will come a point where everything in matches start to click.

Thanks. I know I started this thread with a wall-of-text but I'm glad you took the time to read it as you're providing some very valuable insight. Best way to learn anything is to be honest about your own ability and a thread like this also helps me organize my thoughts, analyze things, get feedback and figure out where to go from there.

Check in with Manny (MASTER) on social media and Wazaaaa here on FSD for any other missing information as they may have a video or thread with information you might ask in the future. There is also @Force_of_Nature who's still doing character guides along with other bits in video format via DOA6. You should check that in whenever for other missing information.

I was familiar with MASTER but not Wazaaaa. I'll check him out. I did watch some of FoN's guides as well as some from Emery and Zakkurye. Problem is it's easy to watch a guide, its another thing to pull off what it says mid-combat . But that comes with time and practice.

 

[RayBellion]

I do not have a history of playing super competitively in games and I get quite a bit of ladder anxiety, especially at the start of a gaming session. It takes a few games before my nerves calm down some.

I can totally relate to that.

A nice text to read. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Arcane]

I can totally relate to that.

A nice text to read. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks for reading. That's the worst feeling. Really wanting to play but yet there's that underlying feeling of dread. Gets a bit better every time I play though.

 

[DestructionBomb]

Thanks for reading. That's the worst feeling. Really wanting to play but yet there's that underlying feeling of dread. Gets a bit better every time I play though.

Keep at it. It wasn't until DOA3 to where I started absorbing the game but I mostly did training mode things, in the past I mostly see footage from other players and then replicate it (was literally a laboratory monster at the time than actually playing the game against others). From there on out, the game started to click. I was absolute shit in DOA2 despite it being my first DOA game back in the Dreamcast, I was mostly into other fighting games at the time as well as action games and RPGs, but I'd say it wasn't until DOA5 vanilla where I started understanding the game twice as more than just testing stuff out in training mode and then finding things on my own than watching others.

One of my biggest hurdles at the time was getting thrown at neutral situations quite often (still do so no shame) as well as guarding more often than necessary.

Good example is here in this video back from DOA5LR (I'm Akira), I also pre-held expecting a mid kick which costed me a round (throws are powerful when you hold):

Over the time and watching yourself play, you've come to notice your mistakes. When to KBD into immediate guard from a fuzzy etc.

 

[Arcane]

Keep at it. It wasn't until DOA3 to where I started absorbing the game but I mostly did training mode things, in the past I mostly see footage from other players and then replicate it (was literally a laboratory monster at the time than actually playing the game against others). From there on out, the game started to click. I was absolute shit in DOA2 despite it being my first DOA game back in the Dreamcast, I was mostly into other fighting games at the time as well as action games and RPGs, but I'd say it wasn't until DOA5 vanilla where I started understanding the game twice as more than just testing stuff out in training mode and then finding things on my own than watching others.

One of my biggest hurdles at the time was getting thrown at neutral situations quite often (still do so no shame) as well as guarding more often than necessary. I also pre-held expecting a mid kick which costed a round (which throws become powerful when you hold).

Good example is here back from DOA5LR (I'm Akira):

Over the time and watching yourself play, you've come to notice your mistakes. When to KBD into immediate guard from a fuzzy etc.

That was very impressive movement. Looked like DOA playing in fast-forward. It'll be a while before I'm anywhere near that.

Guarding too much is also one of the issues I'm tackling. Need to strike the right balance between aggression and defense. But the more I learn my character's moves, the more options I realize I have and, slowly, I'm beginning to be a bit more aggressive. Or at least not as defensive

 

[Raansu]

That was very impressive movement. Looked like DOA playing in fast-forward. It'll be a while before I'm anywhere near that.

To be fair, DoA5 imo did play a bit faster than doa6 due to the differences in mechanics. DoA6 is a lot more neutral heavy so the pace is much slower.

 

[heyayane]

Pretty nice post! =)

Hardest match-ups for me have been against Christie. I hear she's pretty unsafe however I get counter hit more often than not when it's supposed to be my turn. I'm probably just taking too long to counter-attack. Will need to work on that.

Maybe I can get you some insights about Christie in our ranks (currently in C ranks with her).
With Christie I find out if you play against people who don't fight often against her or even know the matchup at all, it's somewhat easy to win. But if someone knows the "cheap" und unsafe tricks, you are screwed (or at least I am, since I'm not too comfortable with this game right know). It's like playing Nina in low ranks in Tekken. Christie is a very similiar experience for me.

So maybe try to learn the matchup a little bit and she shouldn't be much of a problem I guess.

 

[Arcane]

Pretty nice post! =)



Maybe I can get you some insights about Christie in our ranks (currently in C ranks with her).
With Christie I find out if you play against people who don't fight often against her or even know the matchup at all, it's somewhat easy to win. But if someone knows the "cheap" und unsafe tricks, you are screwed (or at least I am, since I'm not too comfortable with this game right know). It's like playing Nina in low ranks in Tekken. Christie is a very similiar experience for me.

So maybe try to learn the matchup a little bit and she shouldn't be much of a problem I guess.

Thanks. I'm gonna have to. She's the character I have the worst win-rate against. I'm going to watch some replays, take notes of the moves and strings that troubled me and check them out in the training room.

 

[cheeseburgering]

That's the worst feeling. Really wanting to play but yet there's that underlying feeling of dread. Gets a bit better every time I play though.

Oof I get that ranked anxiety, too. Oddly enough I get it a lot worse when I'm winning. When I'm a losing spree it's like whatever, can't get any worse, just keep trucking and maybe it'll turn around. But on a winning spree I'm like "OH NO WHAT IF IT ALL COMES CRASHING DOWN I'd better quit while I'm ahead." I have to remind myself it still doesn't matter.

 

[Arcane]

Oof I get that ranked anxiety, too. Oddly enough I get it a lot worse when I'm winning. When I'm a losing spree it's like whatever, can't get any worse, just keep trucking and maybe it'll turn around. But on a winning spree I'm like "OH NO WHAT IF IT ALL COMES CRASHING DOWN I'd better quit while I'm ahead." I have to remind myself it still doesn't matter.

Yup, I'm exactly the same way. The better I do, the more anxiety sets in for the next match. God forbid I end the day on a decent streak then I'll REALLY struggle to pick up the game on the following day. But if I'm getting destroyed then its fine because I should be getting beat since I'm not that good.

It seems like I can cope with failure, but not so much with failure after success. Hopefully it's just a matter of experiencing it enough to eventually get desensitized to it.

 

[Raansu]

Don't worry about your rank. If you stop caring it wont feel like a grind and you wont get anxiety over it. Just acknowledge that you'll eventually rank up naturally as you gain experience and learn the game. Also, friend request people who you see as better players, and play them in lobbies when you feel you need a break from the ranked queue. You'll get a break from the ranked play and playing someone better in a lobby will help you improve a lot.

 

[Arcane]

Don't worry about your rank. If you stop caring it wont feel like a grind and you wont get anxiety over it. Just acknowledge that you'll eventually rank up naturally as you gain experience and learn the game. Also, friend request people who you see as better players, and play them in lobbies when you feel you need a break from the ranked queue. You'll get a break from the ranked play and playing someone better in a lobby will help you improve a lot.

It's not my rank or the rate at which I'm gaining rank that is the problem. It is purely a psychological issue not related to the game. It is thinking that your successes are a hoax and that defeat is proof of that hoax.

Every time I win, I get some satisfaction out of it. But a little voice in my head tells me not to get too pleased with myself because I didn't deserve to win. So what happens after I spend a night kicking butt in ranked? I get scared to play the next day because I fear I'm going to hit a string of loses that will prove to me I didn't deserve the prior night's wins. I find I have to force myself to sit down and start playing instead of agonizing over it.

Funnily enough, if I lose the first match of the day, I immediately feel better. I failed, as I should have, so things are "as they should be".

It is not logical. But it is what I have to deal with.

 

[Raansu]

I'm not sure how to help you on that one other than to say fighting games have a flow and it really comes down to how well you can focus. I've had days where I play people I normally beat 99% of the time and go on and lose to them 5 times in a row. Heck, Bladez has dominated every tournament and then come summer jam he got steamrolled by killy. That's the great thing about fighting games is that flow. Losing doesn't equate to you being bad, its just that specific match they had your number. Readjust, think about what went wrong and move on. Maybe take a break and come back to it.

 

[Arcane]

I'm not sure how to help you on that one other than to say fighting games have a flow and it really comes down to how well you can focus. I've had days where I play people I normally beat 99% of the time and go on and lose to them 5 times in a row. Heck, Bladez has dominated every tournament and then come summer jam he got steamrolled by killy. That's the great thing about fighting games is that flow. Losing doesn't equate to you being bad, its just that specific match they had your number. Readjust, think about what went wrong and move on. Maybe take a break and come back to it.

No worries. I appreciate the responses but I'm not expecting people to play psychologist for me. Part of the reason I started this thread is precisely because I'm certain there are more people like me. People that really want to play online but anxiety prevents them from doing so. Part of it is also to hold myself accountable to playing so that I don't give in to anxiety myself.

You're 100% right. That ebb and flow of winning and losing is part of the game. And that's what I have to get my mind to accept. I think as long as I keep playing and get comfortable with that flow, eventually I'll stop being so anxious about it.

 

[cheeseburgering]

For me it's like winning too much adds pressure as it's giving me something to defend/lose. What goes up must come down and such. But of course nobody plays forever without losing, just like it would be a serious accomplishment to lose forever without winning...it might feel like it sometimes, but even on my worst streaks I'm still winning 20-30% of my games.

It'll always be a mix of both, and the short term stretches of wins and losses really don't matter. It's like watching the stock market or something, there'll be countless little rises and falls and only the long term view means anything. So I tell myself not to worry about the short term. Did I just win 8 games straight? Well whatever, get 100 games in and then see what my record's like.