Community EVO 2019 games reveal has no core

YEH

Well-Known Member
Those highlighted comments from that salty thing that happened on the night of February 26:

one guy said: No DOA No Balls

another guy said: So Wiz, tell me, what games aren't DOA?

and another said: this lineup has no Core Values

Please everyone share with me what you got, thanks.
 
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DR2K

Well-Known Member
At least you can use every females initial costume in DOA6 without triggering porn filters on tv. Can’t say that for a few of the main EVO games.
 

legibifou

Well-Known Member
I really wonder how much the EVO Japan "incident" had an impact on the absence of the game at EVO 2019 ... Anyway, I'm sad for TN.
 
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PandaFace

New Member
I dont believe that DOA had much of a chance to begin with, just that incident completely removed whatever small chance there was.
 

Jyu_Viole_Grace

Well-Known Member
Team Ninja should look at ASW.

EVO was always a tournament mainly focused in Capcom, Namco and Smash games. EVO "supporting" what they called "Anime fighters" is something relatively new.

ASW is important now because they started working in their own tournaments after SBO death. For Team Ninja the most important thing is their World Tour being successful.

Everyone wants to be in EVO but not being a main title doesn't mean it's the end of the world. If Team Ninja has success with their World Tour, they will be in EVO 2020.
 

Dr PaC

Well-Known Member
I think it’s common knowledge Wizard never liked DOA much to begin with so DOA6 had a low chance of getting in from the beginning. DOA fans are used to being snubbed, we are the red headed step child after all. I’m not surprised but I’m very disappointed. But the community is growing and we can support our own game and events so I’m not worried for the games future
 

Jyu_Viole_Grace

Well-Known Member
I think it’s common knowledge Wizard never liked DOA much to begin with so DOA6 had a low chance of getting in from the beginning. DOA fans are used to being snubbed, we are the red headed step child after all. I’m not surprised but I’m very disappointed. But the community is growing and we can support our own game and events so I’m not worried for the games future

This is the attitude. This franchise shouldn't depend only in EVO, if they don't want DOA 6 now because this year they can afford it, it's their mistake, other tournaments will give DOA 6 a chance and people will look at these tournaments.

Me, as "Anime player", I'm really used to this kind of things. Joining forces with other "small" games is the best way to attract more players and getting mutual support in small tournaments.

I'm showing the game to my friends, also Anime players and they're liking it.

We Anime players:

-We aren't afraid of seeing bouncing breasts. We are used to it and we also appreciate it.
-We like Ninjas (Bang Shishigami, Chipp Zanuff, Hanzo Hattori, Mai Shiranui ... )
-We like colorful games.
-We like fast paced games highly focused in neutral game.
-We appreciate good BGMs.

I'm also seeing several Japanese players interested in DOA 6 so if Team Ninja release an Arcade version soon, I'm sure several professional players will come to DOA 6.
 

prototypetom

Active Member
Sorry I'm off work sick and sore and looking for some feverish ranty catharsis...

Core Values was a great meme. But ultimately EVO has built a model and if we want to enjoy the benefits of it we have to do so on their terms - however hypocritical they might seem - it's a business. Core Values was just Wizard tripping up and laying that façade bare for a moment... and it was funny.

It's not news but DOA mostly has a bad or confused reputation outside of it's own fanbase in average Joe Gamer circles, so those gamers are not a massive concern for EVO and their growth. I think there's probably a bunch of high level EVO faces who would jump in and EVO know this and aren't really sure if that's a good or bad thing, because of our mixed brand perception and EVO's own brand... hate to say it... values :D. EVO might proclaim they represent the FGC, but mostly EVO represents EVO and DOA is problematic.

I suspect we might have become a consideration but that horrific EVO Japan display gave them an excuse to revert to their historic position and shoot for easy kudos points with S.Showdown instead (which i assume would have been our slot). There is an argument it shouldn't have mattered... but in the real world of course it bloody does.

The root of our problem is a thin broad spectrum fanbase that is somewhat divided with, at one end, a very sensitive extreme of fanservice ideologues for whom a fleshy hill is one worth (DOA) dying on. TN/KT struggle in accommodating both ends of this spectrum (and by virtue, everyone in the middle) and perpetuate the issue with conflicting brand messaging of DOA's fighting credentials vs fantasy stylings, it's offshoot game, and DLC - all the stuff EVO is assessing alongside raw stream and ticket value. For every Stream Master does, there's a new trailer of DOAX3 or whatever it is. This all pulls on the brand.

It's entirely possible to get a decent balance though with very little of the compromise that's apparently overwhelming and toxic to some. The overly salty narrative leading up to launch and now the failed EVO pitch demonstrates the failing of this balance imo. It seems to be a lose/lose - and I don't think it has to be.

We have the fantastic core game we've always had. We have what looks like one of the most accessible tutorial and learning systems possible in a challenging genre. And we have great cast of characters and content that we know will be built on (and possibly ring-fenced) in DLC. And it all looks great. This shouldn't be a hard sell - it shouldn't even BE a sell. That said, it does become a harder sell in a world where every meaningless voice is a gospel; journalists pander to outrage and what gets clicks; and everyone is scared. But even considering that...

I saw many tweets today almost claiming this EVO fail as a victory for fan power and a lesson for TN to not ignore the real fans. That, in a nutshell, is just what keeps this franchise on the fringe and undermines the investment of all the offline players who are the REAL heroes of the game's competitive worth. Its TN/KT marketing team's responsibility to manage this though, and they need to do better. It would be unfair to lay it all on a few angry T&A fans, most of them didn't just wake up angry. It really should have been clear at the start of the marketing there would be plenty of pink in the game and especially the DLC - it just wasn't going to be the focus of the launch. This is not a nuanced audience to talk to.

That said though, I wish the type of twitter DOA fan who's REALLY worried about SJW's stealing their boners could understand that the game, and thus the fanservice, just goes away if it can't suckle on the titty of the wider FGC just a little bit... I wonder if that's an analogy they might understand? The sticky dollar won't float this boat alone, so I credit TN for having some ambition even if they made some mistakes with EVO this year.

We need to support DOA's own and existing offline opportunities of course, but why compromise and settle? I'm fed up with compromising, DOA6 should be loud and proud and EVERYWHERE. Lets also get some juicy EVO action for our best competitive representatives on what is the biggest available stage next year by taking it beyond the whim of Joey Cueller's core values.

/cough sorry splutter dies
 

Jyu_Viole_Grace

Well-Known Member
I suspect we might have become a consideration but that horrific EVO Japan display gave them an excuse to revert to their historic position and shoot for easy kudos points with S.Showdown instead (which i assume would have been our slot).

I highly doubt it since this kind arrangements take a lot of time and they just can't replace a slot for another game that they didn't know if would be truly ready for this EVO. This can't be done in a few weeks.

If they put Samurai Shodown there it's because they really know it will be ready and they were in talks with SNK for a while.

UNIEL slot is also a slot free of all doubts. Last year was really popular in its side tournament and people (me included) were asking for it for years.
 

deathofaninja

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
News Team
Sorry I'm off work sick and sore and looking for some feverish ranty catharsis...

Core Values was a great meme. But ultimately EVO has built a model and if we want to enjoy the benefits of it we have to do so on their terms - however hypocritical they might seem - it's a business. Core Values was just Wizard tripping up and laying that façade bare for a moment... and it was funny.

It's not news but DOA mostly has a bad or confused reputation outside of it's own fanbase in average Joe Gamer circles, so those gamers are not a massive concern for EVO and their growth. I think there's probably a bunch of high level EVO faces who would jump in and EVO know this and aren't really sure if that's a good or bad thing, because of our mixed brand perception and EVO's own brand... hate to say it... values :D. EVO might proclaim they represent the FGC, but mostly EVO represents EVO and DOA is problematic.

I suspect we might have become a consideration but that horrific EVO Japan display gave them an excuse to revert to their historic position and shoot for easy kudos points with S.Showdown instead (which i assume would have been our slot). There is an argument it shouldn't have mattered... but in the real world of course it bloody does.

The root of our problem is a thin broad spectrum fanbase that is somewhat divided with, at one end, a very sensitive extreme of fanservice ideologues for whom a fleshy hill is one worth (DOA) dying on. TN/KT struggle in accommodating both ends of this spectrum (and by virtue, everyone in the middle) and perpetuate the issue with conflicting brand messaging of DOA's fighting credentials vs fantasy stylings, it's offshoot game, and DLC - all the stuff EVO is assessing alongside raw stream and ticket value. For every Stream Master does, there's a new trailer of DOAX3 or whatever it is. This all pulls on the brand.

It's entirely possible to get a decent balance though with very little of the compromise that's apparently overwhelming and toxic to some. The overly salty narrative leading up to launch and now the failed EVO pitch demonstrates the failing of this balance imo. It seems to be a lose/lose - and I don't think it has to be.

We have the fantastic core game we've always had. We have what looks like one of the most accessible tutorial and learning systems possible in a challenging genre. And we have great cast of characters and content that we know will be built on (and possibly ring-fenced) in DLC. And it all looks great. This shouldn't be a hard sell - it shouldn't even BE a sell. That said, it does become a harder sell in a world where every meaningless voice is a gospel; journalists pander to outrage and what gets clicks; and everyone is scared. But even considering that...

I saw many tweets today almost claiming this EVO fail as a victory for fan power and a lesson for TN to not ignore the real fans. That, in a nutshell, is just what keeps this franchise on the fringe and undermines the investment of all the offline players who are the REAL heroes of the game's competitive worth. Its TN/KT marketing team's responsibility to manage this though, and they need to do better. It would be unfair to lay it all on a few angry T&A fans, most of them didn't just wake up angry. It really should have been clear at the start of the marketing there would be plenty of pink in the game and especially the DLC - it just wasn't going to be the focus of the launch. This is not a nuanced audience to talk to.

That said though, I wish the type of twitter DOA fan who's REALLY worried about SJW's stealing their boners could understand that the game, and thus the fanservice, just goes away if it can't suckle on the titty of the wider FGC just a little bit... I wonder if that's an analogy they might understand? The sticky dollar won't float this boat alone, so I credit TN for having some ambition even if they made some mistakes with EVO this year.

We need to support DOA's own and existing offline opportunities of course, but why compromise and settle? I'm fed up with compromising, DOA6 should be loud and proud and EVERYWHERE. Lets also get some juicy EVO action for our best competitive representatives on what is the biggest available stage next year by taking it beyond the whim of Joey Cueller's core values.

/cough sorry splutter dies

It was because Team NINJA didn't want to pay. Team NINJA has other focuses and is already putting up 90k for DOA championship. CEO also looks to be a big one and there are over 50 entrants signed up for FR already.

Evo isn't necessary anymore... Just like WWE isn't necessary anymore. I'm not watching it with no SSBM... The star of the whole fucking thing.
 

prototypetom

Active Member
I highly doubt it since this kind arrangements take a lot of time and they just can't replace a slot for another game that they didn't know if would be truly ready for this EVO. This can't be done in a few weeks.

If they put Samurai Shodown there it's because they really know it will be ready and they were in talks with SNK for a while.

UNIEL slot is also a slot free of all doubts. Last year was really popular in its side tournament and people (me included) were asking for it for years.
its a strong point and could well be right - but they could have been making plans around showcasing showdown in other ways which made it an easy change up. remember this was just an announce for an event that's some months away, the event didn't happen last night. there's lots of times to handle logistics - they're not sat in auditorium right now with everything set up ready to go.

(as lovely a mental image that is :cool: )
 
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prototypetom

Active Member
It was because Team NINJA didn't want to pay. Team NINJA has other focuses and is already putting up 90k for DOA championship. CEO also looks to be a big one and there are over 50 entrants signed up for FR already.

Evo isn't necessary anymore... Just like WWE isn't necessary anymore. I'm not watching it with no SSBM... The star of the whole fucking thing.

I don't know what the financial workings of featuring at EVO might be. Of course they're huge showcases for product, but they're also generating other revenue on these licenses - i presumed it might a smaller burden than their own. I imagine i might be very wrong about that.

TBH i haven't watched an EVO properly for some time due to DOA not being in it... not even sure what the purses are like any more.
 
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Jyu_Viole_Grace

Well-Known Member
It was because Team NINJA didn't want to pay. Team NINJA has other focuses and is already putting up 90k for DOA championship. CEO also looks to be a big one and there are over 50 entrants signed up for FR already.

Evo isn't necessary anymore... Just like WWE isn't necessary anymore. I'm not watching it with no SSBM... The star of the whole fucking thing.
This.


I'm sure Team Ninja couldn't give them a good amount for the tournament prize and they opted just for not supporting the game for free.

Nethelrealm can bring good cash. Capcom can bring good cash and it's SF. Namco can bring good cash and now they have both Tekken and FighterZ, so they can push SoulCalibur. ASW has its own tournaments for BlazBlue CF and GG Revelator, so they can be ok with just BBCT as main game, Smash Ultimate is Smash and the community will pay the prize, as always.

its a strong point and could well be right - but they could have been making plans around showcasing showdown in other ways which made it an easy change up. remember this was just an announce for an event that's some months away, the event didn't happen last night. there's lots of times to handle logistics - they're not sat in auditorium right now with everything set up ready to go.

(as lovely a mental image that is :cool: )

For me this is another BlazBlue Cross Tag Battle scenario, where ASW and EVO were in talks for a while and BBCT was released "mysteriously" at half priced just to be ready for EVO, with almost the other half characters being DLC, completing the full price.
 
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human013

Well-Known Member
Did the DOA community even grow during DOA5's life? Realistically how many people even play at tournaments? I dropped out of this place not too long after I joined but I continued watching DOA events every now and then and I never got the impression that DOA was growing. Also, if DOA hasn't been on the main EVO lineup for ages then why would DOA6 suddenly be in? Nothing significant happened during DOA5's life to warrant that.

UNIEST on the other hand :thumbs up:

Team Ninja should look at ASW.

EVO was always a tournament mainly focused in Capcom, Namco and Smash games. EVO "supporting" what they called "Anime fighters" is something relatively new.

ASW is important now because they started working in their own tournaments after SBO death. For Team Ninja the most important thing is their World Tour being successful.

Everyone wants to be in EVO but not being a main title doesn't mean it's the end of the world. If Team Ninja has success with their World Tour, they will be in EVO 2020.
It would also help if the players were not so focused on trying to please or get the attention of people who don't care about DOA.

One huge difference is how the players react to their own game. In anime fighters the players enjoy the anime aspect and whatever it entails. You have players having fun with the designs, story, mechanics, and fanservice whether they like it or not. Have you seen the discussions about Wagner, her spats, and her tanline color select? Or how about the anime things Faust, Arakune, and Izanami do in tournaments? People have dumb fun while playing seriously and they aren't embarrassed about their own game.

Then you get to DOA and the people in the community can't even commentate or discuss their own game without sometimes acting like the game is their awkward relative. DOA is trying too hard and is too desperate for the attention of people who never cared. I'll paraphrase something someone said that stuck with me, "If DOA6 changed mechanic "x" then the FGC will think less of DOA". That along with other things I've seen here made me lose respect for DOA. There is too much denial and ass kissing for me to seriously respect and this is my favorite series. If I can see these things then people who enjoy shitting on the game will also.
 

YEH

Well-Known Member
Did the DOA community even grow during DOA5's life? Realistically how many people even play at tournaments? I dropped out of this place not too long after I joined but I continued watching DOA events every now and then and I never got the impression that DOA was growing. Also, if DOA hasn't been on the main EVO lineup for ages then why would DOA6 suddenly be in? Nothing significant happened during DOA5's life to warrant that.

UNIEST on the other hand :thumbs up:


It would also help if the players were not so focused on trying to please or get the attention of people who don't care about DOA.

One huge difference is how the players react to their own game. In anime fighters the players enjoy the anime aspect and whatever it entails. You have players having fun with the designs, story, mechanics, and fanservice whether they like it or not. Have you seen the discussions about Wagner, her spats, and her tanline color select? Or how about the anime things Faust, Arakune, and Izanami do in tournaments? People have dumb fun while playing seriously and they aren't embarrassed about their own game.

Then you get to DOA and the people in the community can't even commentate or discuss their own game without sometimes acting like the game is their awkward relative. DOA is trying too hard and is too desperate for the attention of people who never cared. I'll paraphrase something someone said that stuck with me, "If DOA6 changed mechanic "x" then the FGC will think less of DOA". That along with other things I've seen here made me lose respect for DOA. There is too much denial and ass kissing for me to seriously respect and this is my favorite series. If I can see these things then people who enjoy shitting on the game will also.

Nah, you're dissing the community too much, to me for example: DOA is on another level, somehow it manages to have too many triggers with its representational prowess, to the point where everything else seems "fine" in the eyes of everyone playing or watching fighting games, and since FGs are heavily reliant on offline gatherings, good luck debating "VALUES" in a Western dominant culture.

If this iteration of the series triggers equal or higher amount of "Fun" in the actual gameplay aspects, people will change their views and accept DOA and they may even start to bash anyone who hints about how it "Overexposes" fan service.
 

Jyu_Viole_Grace

Well-Known Member
If you don't like it then go play Tekken or Virtua Fighter.

And the sad truth is Virtua Fighter, without fanservice and with less "gimmicks" than DOA ... is just dead. West never liked the franchise and Japan isn't enough to convince SEGA to develop a new entry.

AM2 privides more money with Project Diva Arcade than with Virtua Fighter.
 

deathofaninja

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
News Team
Nah, you're dissing the community too much, to me for example: DOA is on another level, somehow it manages to have too many triggers with its representational prowess, to the point where everything else seems "fine" in the eyes of everyone playing or watching fighting games, and since FGs are heavily reliant on offline gatherings, good luck debating "VALUES" in a Western dominant culture.

If this iteration of the series triggers equal or higher amount of "Fun" in the actual gameplay aspects, people will change their views and accept DOA and they may even start to bash anyone who hints about how it "Overexposes" fan service.

100% Agree

He's been here long enough to know that it's grown.
 
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