Fighting Games. Character or Player when you are spectating?

Who do you normally root for?


  • Total voters
    6
  • Poll closed .

DestructionBomb

Well-Known Member
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As the topic goes, saw this asked in the form of a poll in various other fighting game forums so thought it'd be interesting to ask for DOA as well. What do you normally root for? do you normally root for the character entirely in fighting games? rooting for the players only because you don't really care what character is on screen as long as you root for players in fighting games? or edging one over the other?

Like an event, if you are a spectator watching a match, online, or some event at grand finals.

For me, I root for characters way more with slight bit towards the player as well with two reasons on my end.

1) The type of character presented and the amount of work you have to do with that character to achieve results. Especially characters that are simply not easy to use at all or high execution that provides phenomenal rewards. You have everything in your disposal with such a character but you have to work for it, compared to a character where they also have everything in their disposal but will barely need anything demanding, effortless. In some cases, you can have a very demanding bad character as well that sometimes may make a character not worth the effort putting into.

2) A character can be an underdog similar to a player, especially a character that's very possible to not be very good in general. An unknown/underrated character suddenly rising up and defeating the theories of situations and labeled as "nobody plays" or low tier, or seeing the pleasure of a very bad character suddenly overcoming the odds of being dealt with the bad hand of terrible match ups and surviving with X/Y bad character because of opponent's mistakes who's using a common character that everyone knows about. Course to make that happen, has to be a bit of the player's part to tolerate these circumstances and finding ways around it, so credits for the player to take the time to jumping into it, compared to using the highest good popular character and just settling it from there.

Note: For the sake of consistency, let's take friends out of the situation (if that's what people are going with) and placing yourself in the position of watching two characters and two opponents play against each other. People that you don't know at all as an example duking it out while playing characters you are familiar with. As mentioned course, if you don't care what character is on screen or players playing, either go with the 2nd or 1st one.
 
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T..J. Bernard

Well-Known Member
Though generally I stand more so in the neutral site, in this context, I'll say I can always respect a good player that plays the game really well at a high level and can showcase the best of not only a character but the game as a whole. Also a character can't be showcased w/o the players. Best examples come from like Rangchu w/ the bears, Daigo w/ the Ken parry, etc. Rooting for a character for me feels more justified in story mode where we're looking at their ambitions, reasoning, interactions, etc. Also seeing their moveset and such does come into play as well. But competitively, I'll more so root for the player cause the players are ultimately what makes a character shine or not, or fun or irritating, etc.
 

DestructionBomb

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Rooting for a character for me feels more justified in story mode where we're looking at their ambitions, reasoning, interactions, etc.

This is a different context that kinda never gets applied or tends to get avoided, but can be from a more casual perspective so I don't disagree yeah.

The topic was more leaning towards gameplay as you can root for characters for competitive purposes based on the type of characters that get displayed on screen. An example, some players wouldn't root for characters that get displayed far too many times because the character is far too common, incredibly common to the point that it may end up in mirror matches, or because of how good a character can be can also be tied to how much a character can carry a player (or not, but it does exist and it is a real thing). It's a number of factors really and varies across different fighting games and culture, least usually.

Because of how different the player bases are, it's even possible to have two underplayed characters where you'd have to root for the players. Or you can have a very underrated player make it extremely far in the same fashion. It's quite of bit of things that clash that can make an interesting outcome because it's giving you options on what to root for.
 
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Brute

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I am biased towards certain characters, but historically the characters I want to see win aren't being played in top tournament settings (Lisa, Leon, etc.).
So if I'm picking between the Helena on the left side of the screen and the Helena on the right side of the screen, I root for the Helena player I like better.
 

DestructionBomb

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Standard Donor
I have a strong bias towards character, but historically the characters I want to see win aren't being played in top tournament settings (Lisa, Leon, etc.). So if I'm picking between the Helena on the left side of the screen and the Helena on the right side of the screen, I root for the Helena player I like better.

Great post, makes sense.
 

KasumiLover

xX_APO_Prince_Xx
Premium Donor
Player is more important since their style of play can change how people perceive that character to be as a player can make a character who's regarded as weaker tier play very strong against characters who are stronger on paper, like when when Phase 4 and Eliot won those LR tourneys from Xcalibur and I think Kwiggle. Focusing on character over that imo is a slap in the face because I always hate the notion that a character "carries" players when a player just knows how to use their tools. Some games it's ok to focus on them like in Tekken where Leroy and Fahk can lessen the difficulty while Lili players still struggle to keep up no matter how good they are but in most other games I don't think character is necessarily the case when spectating
 

DestructionBomb

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Standard Donor
I don't think character is necessarily the case when spectating

Character rooting is a very common thing though, especially at other FG events. It's a very popular thing for many particular reasons because specific characters being displayed warrants different types of attention, and becomes even more frequent when it's a character that consistently makes common placements. When a player gets attention, so does the character they use as it can develop situations to having more people pick that character up. One of the things to look for at times can go beyond than just players. When it comes to a underrated character, this is what people call "creating upsets using said character rather than typical player upsets". A player upsets normally only occurs when a player that's heavily on under the radar takes off a common placed player / a player that sleeps on the underdog, but generally this is still situational since it all ties to the characters used to create that upset to begin with regardless of skill gap. Hence why character rooting is a very very very common thing :p .

In DOA's case, the culture might/might not be different but it is there from the amount of times I been to the events for DOA, especially back on 5 and the amount of times I spectated other games live. Now if we take DOA6, say if you take Nico (Siologica) vs Gehaktbal (Bass), the likeilhood of rooting for Gehaktbal is potentially greater (as that's exactly what happened btw) which both are notable very good players, but he is still the underdog from a character perspective due to the character he is using because this match up in particular is not a good match up for Bass at all and not a popular used character. The amount of cheering for Gehaktbal behind Bass is a prime example as even Japan's own countrymen was rooting for Bass. For him to accomplish this (with Gehaktbal himself knowing that the match up is bad), is that not only is he aiming to win, but he is getting the potential prop that he will try to succeed with said character even if he is placed with a bad hand. The unknown and being the underdog can throw opponents off due to that uncertainty. Winning in the end solidifies that you've done something that is not very easy to do, so your win feels all the more better generally.

I mean, the best example of character rooting is Japan arcade scenes (with most of it just being character attacks hype). Street Fighter especially does this. Tekken. Guilty Gear. Uniel. BlazBlue etc. etc. as it's part of the normal FG culture to root for characters as well as the players (if the requirements are met with what characters are displayed), heck even commentators out there root for characters live on stream because most want to avoid being biased to particular players so the best courses of action is to root for a character that deserves the match sets, but this does not mean that you can't apply vice-versa where you have the option to root for players which is normal. Particularly friends or watching mirrors where you can root for anyone between the two.


Player is more important since their style of play can change how people perceive that character to be as a player can make a character who's regarded as weaker tier play very strong against characters who are stronger on paper

Getting the player to play a specific character is pretty important to bring it to light yeah, but it's never the conclusion to what makes a character great. Those are merely situational and theory talks since tiers are always separated from players. You can have a player that will use the entire movekit and tools of the character but still lose due to circumstances of an opposing player. Players can suffer from pressure, overthinking, random circumstances, life lead differences that changes your gameplan etc. Sometimes that weak character may be the answer to your problems from a situational level as FGs will always have based match up regardless of skill level.

For start, you can steamroll someone with barely usage of a character movekit due to the fact that skill gap exists. When it comes to tier list, player skill gap was never in the equation on what makes a character good (I mean it never did), all players do is bring it to light. An extremely strong player can most win with a weaker character yes, but people have to take into account that it's still situational, as you can have an extremely good player on the other end and he'll still lose due to mistakes or letting players get away with certain things from said weak characters they played against. There is a lot of factors involved that's more than just player skill.

In DOA's case, you can definitely win by holding things correctly, playing it safe without showing your options of what makes your character good as well as covering your weaknesses. The beauty of fighting games is that not every match will result to this since mostly everything is situational albeit there are obvious things which they have to be placed on the map to identify them usually.

Focusing on character over that imo is a slap in the face because I always hate the notion that a character "carries" players when a player just knows how to use their tools.

Will disagree heavily. When it comes to focusing a character, it is never ever ever ever ever a slap in the face :( (if you mean carrying part, might depend on the context). The beauty of fighting games have mostly been the display of such characters to begin with though ahaha. The player is really only the consumer using the character and bringing the characters to light, but a character can make a person shine on what they excel at / omni role of using multiple characters as it essentially promotes the characters and game itself.

As for the term "carrying" it does exist in fighting games, however people might be taking the context as some sort of disrespect to a player skill talent when it's not the case. Not necessarily a bad thing. Granted the term has been commonly used negatively towards a player's skill level but yeah.

>> Carrying also has been referred to something from a character's movelist/tool that helped you far too greatly when you have other strong tools in your disposal, so one move is carrying your "character" to victory when you were going to win regardless as a player, skill or not.

The best example for this is Zod vs Lex Luther in Injustice, from a player vs player standpoint. This match up is extremely bad for Lex that Zod's movekit can carry him entirely in that fight, but this is not meant to be in a negative way. This means that Lex has no answer to that, so this is not the players fault in regards to "carry".


^ if a player from Lex's perspective was to overcome this, everyone would 100% start patting his back for how different the situation is. Hence, it becomes the typical character rooting ahaha.

This is not to say I disagree with you on the subject for players and characters as a whole with exception of one thing, but we might be on a different page on that one as character and player rooting does exist in the FG realm.
 
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T..J. Bernard

Well-Known Member
This is a different context that kinda never gets applied or tends to get avoided, but can be from a more casual perspective so I don't disagree yeah.

The topic was more leaning towards gameplay as you can root for characters for competitive purposes based on the type of characters that get displayed on screen. An example, some players wouldn't root for characters that get displayed far too many times because the character is far too common, incredibly common to the point that it may end up in mirror matches, or because of how good a character can be can also be tied to how much a character can carry a player (or not, but it does exist and it is a real thing). It's a number of factors really and varies across different fighting games and culture, least usually.

Because of how different the player bases are, it's even possible to have two underplayed characters where you'd have to root for the players. Or you can have a very underrated player make it extremely far in the same fashion. It's quite of bit of things that clash that can make an interesting outcome because it's giving you options on what to root for.

Good argument. And I can see that point in regards to when DOA 6 started w/ NiCO going far and even S1 tekken w/ the endless Dragunov's. I think the worst example of a character being overused is w/ Leroy Japan and though I'm still skeptical about Bamco learning to balance things well, hopefully that never happens again.

My counter to the mirror aspect though (Outside Leroy Japan) is that when you see characters used a good #, you begin to see different styles of play come to fruition, which also is very beneficial in regards to a character or game overall. In DOA's regard, I think one of the best examples that I can pinpoint was the Hoodless vs Jager set w/ the Rig mirrors. We can safely say Rig is seen a good # of times online (Not as much offline). But seeing two of the best Rig's go at it, brings two aspects of Rig that one may not have considered which also helps a spectator think of things from a different perspective as well. You get drawn to different styles of play, which at the end of the day, it then goes to the spectator to choose which style of play they prefer more.


This is also seen in Tekken when Jin was starting to gain traction and we saw Runitblack vs Book and Chikurin play in a mirror. Then we had some Hwoarang mirrors w/ Speed taking on some of the world's best. And any set involving Knee and Qudans w/ Diablo Jim's always a treat for us all.

The case w/ carry and such, I think it depends on what aspect of carry we're talking about. If we're talking about carry as in ease of use and not much execution w/ a generic boring gameplan that anyone can do, then I can agree w/ that point. However, if we're looking at carry as in they have good tools and good gameplan, which showcases the best of a game, then even if a player get's carried, it's still ultimately up to the player to execute. S1 Dragunov was carried and was relatively boring as most kinda had the same easy, boring style. But at the same time, when you watch JDCR play Dragunov, it's still a treat because you see good gameplan and you really understand his good tools, which was also why he was dominating S1 TWT and such.

Now in DOA's regard, this may be a bit controversial depending on how one looks at it, I think Phase gets carried. Her stuns put people in must hold situations, her poke game's intense, her speed's a nightmare in a game w/ no stagger escape and her teleports are even more of a hassle to get through. However, one thing that doesn't get enough appreciation is that her execution takes time, and though her gameplan's relatively simple, stun and keep pressure w/ teleports, it's still up to the player to execute well. Which is why when you see like an XCal or Kwiggle use her, it's a big treat. I don't consider carry a bad thing, depending on what we're considering carry, cause we're all carried by something at some point in a FG. And in a competitive environment, the point is to figure out the best way to not only win at high level but to also play the game and enjoy it at the highest level. At that point, it's better to take it to the devs or community manager in comparison to the player, which often I see the opposite happening.

Lastly for myself personally, when I think of underused characters and players in that regard, I think of it from this point of view: In DOA's case some of the more under-used characters are like Raidou and Marie Rose. W/ Raidou, he's non good and he struggles in this iteration of DOA, which when you watch them get steamrolled, it's actually more tidious to watch than anything else. However, when he's utilized to the best of his ability, he's actually a treat to watch, in the case w/ Hoodless Raidou, Your Raidou, and others. Similar to Marie Rose w/ Ducky, Snowbunny, and others. I take into perspective, who's the strongest players playing a particular character that's underused and what is showcased from that player. If the strongest players are world-class players whom do a great job in showcasing a character at it's best, then no matter what, you're always in for a treat and a spectator can take something away from that player's showcase. Which is why it's more of a treat for me personally to see JDCR's Heihachi, GM's Lee, or in DOA's case Mona's Tamaki, etc.

I like this topic. I can see each side well and whichever argument you go for, there isn't an apparent wrong answer.

2.0
 

deathofaninja

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Premium Donor
News Team
As someone who has written up a lot of tournaments for DOA I prefer:

1. Characters not seen often. I love Christie, but with her usage it was almost impossible to write about her creatively by the end of LR lifespan.

I HATE Honoka, but Cooking Mama had my attention because he used her effectively and it amused me.

I root for grapplers and heavy characters during tournaments and they kind of steal the show. Ponton and Rikuto put on some great performances. Even if they didn’t win it was usually best match of the tournament and most back and forth.

Also have a habit to root for the guests. I loved Sweet Revenge and Crazy Steady usage of Sarah and Jacky. JC blew my god dammed head off with his Akira. The dude was on fire.

As far as what I prefer to be. I prefer talking about a match and spectating. Performing I can do at high level with Tina and Alpha. When I played Crazy offline I knew I was good at that point, but continuing to play was impossible with work schedule and my news posts here. Which is fine because I’d rather get high or drunk and watch a great match and talk about it.

DOA6 needs polish. I’m not good at it. Fully admit it’s not my cup of tea, but it’s still a good bit of fun. I felt like it was harder to fill in tournament write ups with something interesting. A lot of the same outcomes in DOA6 tournaments not just with tournament winners, but also with match ends and move selections.
 
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