Hayate - 1.03A/1.04 "The Damage"

[TakedaZX]

...and just like that Hayate has reverted to his old DOA5.02 self with unsafe wind dash cancels and a weak version of his DOA4 4H+K which doesn't really offer the greatness that it did in DOA4.

There are no patch notes but as far as I know...

3K - No longer sitdown stuns in ANY situation, period.

It wasn't enough that Hayate is already unsafe on damn near EVERYTHING he does. He has no good frame traps, he has moderately OK guard breaks that just allow him to keep up pressure but are still all mids. His low game is terrible compared to some characters, like Helena, Pai, and even Brad Wong.

This guy is nothing.

 

[Tokkosho]

that 3K nerf was unnecessary. and i didn't think Pai had very good lows o.o *shrugs* maybe its just me.

 

[TakedaZX]

that 3K nerf was unnecessary. and i didn't think Pai had very good lows o.o *shrugs* maybe its just me.

66P+K is an awkward low. It has the same motion as 9k. If that wasn't enough 2H+K gives a pretty bad (as in good) stun as well.

66P+K being like +1 million makes it all the more deadly. If this game had a more natural SS I could see it being less of a threat but having to watch out for both of those is a hassle.

 

[grap3fruitman]

LOL

 

[Zeo]

The 3K sit-down made him. The other buffs he got all really connected together with that stun at the heart of it all.

P+K causing a knockdown in stun and with the 3k nerf no real followups to it makes it a pointless sit-down, and Hayate is back to playing the stun game. Amazing. Guess it was too good to be true, be glad you at least got to experience it.

 

[Murakame]

that 3K nerf was unnecessary. and i didn't think Pai had very good lows o.o *shrugs* maybe its just me.

Her lows give you free entry into the stun game. Most other characters gotta get a counterblow in or hope one of their good NH stuns manage to hit somebody if it's not a low.

 

[Rikuto]

The 3K sit-down made him. The other buffs he got all really connected together with that stun at the heart of it all.

P+K causing a knockdown in stun and with the 3k nerf no real followups to it makes it a pointless sit-down, and Hayate is back to playing the stun game. Amazing. Guess it was too good to be true, be glad you at least got to experience it.

You can still launch.

 

[Tokkosho]

Her lows give you free entry into the stun game. Most other characters gotta get a counterblow in or hope one of their good NH stuns manage to hit somebody if it's not a low.

yeah, but they're slow as dick. back to hayate so we dont derail the thread about everyones lows.

 

[Chaos]

...and just like that Hayate has reverted to his old DOA5.02 self with unsafe wind dash cancels and a weak version of his DOA4 4H+K which doesn't really offer the greatness that it did in DOA4.

There are no patch notes but as far as I know...

3K - No longer sitdown stuns in ANY situation, period.

It wasn't enough that Hayate is already unsafe on damn near EVERYTHING he does. He has no good frame traps, he has moderately OK guard breaks that just allow him to keep up pressure but are still all mids. His low game is terrible compared to some characters, like Helena, Pai, and even Brad Wong.

This guy is nothing.

Any good news?

 

[Zeo]

You can still launch.

In most cases you could just launch after a 6P or 3K counter poke, and you're less inclined to risk an 18 frame unsafe mid punch now for such a miniscule payoff.

 

[ScattereDreams]

The 3K sit-down made him. The other buffs he got all really connected together with that stun at the heart of it all.

P+K causing a knockdown in stun and with the 3k nerf no real followups to it makes it a pointless sit-down, and Hayate is back to playing the stun game. Amazing. Guess it was too good to be true, be glad you at least got to experience it.

He still has 3p after p+k which is guaranteed and the follow up punch puts them into another sit down stun. It isn't a 100% guaranteed combo, but if your opponent does hold out you should be able to throw on reaction. He still has 214p sit down stun and back turned 4k.

 

[Nate]

There was no reason to nerf Hayate. Whatever happened to this just being a patch to fix slow escaping? Team Ninja fails.

 

[Rikuto]

There was no reason to nerf Hayate. Whatever happened to this just being a patch to fix slow escaping? Team Ninja fails.

... you could get 75% off of a SIDESTEP ATTACK. I mean.... that's a little extreme.

 

[Zeo]

... you could get 75% off of a SIDESTEP ATTACK. I mean.... that's a little extreme.

You get guaranteed 50% off a Sidestep P with Akira near a wall, and potentially more if it's CH and around 75% if it's HCH. And the 75% required at least one guess.

I'm surprised to hear this from someone who pushed for people to play on smallest where virtually any hit resulted in that same damage.

 

[Nate]

... and back turned 4k.

BT 4K has no follow-ups.

 

[Rikuto]

You get guaranteed 50% off a Sidestep P with Akira near a wall, and potentially more if it's CH and around 75% if it's HCH. And the 75% required at least one guess.

I'm surprised to hear this from someone who pushed for people to play on smallest where virtually any hit resulted in that same damage.

That's because you don't understand why something should or shouldn't do a great amount of damage.

Not even Astaroth gets more than 50% off of his sidestep meter launcher with just frame timing and clean hit. And that's considered almost broken... on the slowest character in the game.

Hayate however, is far from the slowest character in our game.


P+K by itself is probably fine doing somewhere in the neighborhood of 50-60%. The problem is that when you attach it to a sidestep you increase its usefulness to the point its too good.

To balance it you either...

A. Diminish the total amount of guaranteed damage from the setup by removing one of the sit downs.

or

B. Remove the sidestep variation.

They decided to go with A. You are still better than you were in 1.02 however.

 

[Zeo]

That's because you don't understand why something should or shouldn't do a great amount of damage.

Not even Astaroth gets more than 50% off of his sidestep meter launcher with just frame timing and clean hit. And that's considered almost broken... on the slowest character in the game.

Hayate however, is far from the slowest character in our game.


P+K by itself is probably fine doing somewhere in the neighborhood of 50-60%. The problem is that when you attach it to a sidestep you increase its usefulness to the point its too good.

To balance it you either...

A. Diminish the total amount of guaranteed damage from the setup by removing one of the sit downs.

or

B. Remove the sidestep variation.

They decided to go with A. You are still better than you were in 1.02 however.

I think I would have preferred B. Chaining from the P+K was a great tool to have but there were so many other uses for the 3K sit-down. He's an entirely different character without it.

 

[Rikuto]

Would have been nice. I like Bayman for that very reason.

It's still an above average tool, however.

 

[Zeo]

Would have been nice. I like Bayman for that very reason.

It's still an above average tool, however.

Oh well, one step backwards.

 

[synce]

I'm surprised they removed any of the new changes from 1.03 so quickly but 75% damage is crazy for a one guess combo... I would agree that 50% should be the cutoff unless there's a ton of guessing or a wall involved.

Anyway is there a video of 1.03 Hayate anywhere? I didn't even bother trying him out lol