Hayate Q&A Thread

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
Hey guys. The point of this thread is to answer any questions about Hayate when it comes to tactics and certain aspects of playing him that you might not understand.

There's also the Hayate Breakdown and Hayate Video/Critique Thread for you guys to look at. If there's any questions thing not gone over in the breakdown that you'd like to have talked about more so in depth then just voice it here.

:)
 

KuRuPt

Member
Premium Donor
After knocking down your opponent, what tactics can be applied to continue pressure? Does Hayate have any tools which can deal with wake-up kicks effectively?

For the latter, I like to bait the kick, make it whiff and punish with 3H+K, 4P+K, 9KKK, or 33KK.
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
After knocking down your opponent, what tactics can be applied to continue pressure? Does Hayate have any tools which can deal with wake-up kicks effectively?

For the latter, I like to bait the kick, make it whiff and punish with 3H+K, 4P+K, 9KKK, or 33KK.
Well, Hayate's wake up game really isn't as great as many people think it is. Lisa, Brad Wong, and pretty much all the other ninjas top him on it.


As far as tactics to continue pressure I'd give you these.

  • Hold the kicks.
    • For Low wake ups, there's nothing much to tell it's cut and dry damage that you don't risk a counter blow on.

      Mid wake up kicks are a different story, because of Hayate's expert mid kick hold (:4::6::h:). This hold launches the opponent in the air and basically scores you free Raijin damage. 72 damage on NH in the open and 70 damage if you're at the wall (not counting the wall splat for either of them.

      Here's the setups I use for easy + effective damage.
    • In the open - :4::6::h: :~: :4::P::6::P+K::K: :~: BT :7::K:
    • Wall friendly - :4::6::h: :~: :4::K::6::K: :~: :P::P::6::P::K:
  • Bait and Whiff Punish
    • :6::6::P:, :6::6::[[p+k]]:, :4::P+K:, and :3:H+K: can whiff punish a wake up kick period if timed and spaced correctly. So if you're looking to back out of the range of the kick then hit the opponent in the recovery frames these are your moves, more specifically 66P if you're looking for a stun because it's +17 (+15) on highest SE. You can extend your stun or go for the 33K launcher that can't be SE'd, only held then get a simple stun launch combo.
  • Crush
    • If you're looking to say in your opponents face, it gets complicated from here. Hayate doesn't have easy answers to mid wake up kicks, which is why I gamble a 46H instead of a crush.
    • :3::H+K:, :214::P:, and :214::K:can handle lows pretty well.
      • :3::H+K: will be your easy to time stun, but it's slow escapable and predictable.
      • :214::P: is less predictable and if timed and spaced correctly, it can put the opponent into a sitdown stun guaranteeing a 6p, 3k, or 7k during the stun. It also guarantees the follow up to the regular combo (:214::P::P:) giving you a free launcher into pp6pk.
      • :214::K: is less reliable and only knocksdown for some ok damage. I wouldn't bother with this.
    • :214::P:, :3::3::K::K: and :9::K::K::K:can handle mids and lows but are extremely risky. I usually don't like to take this risk unless I want a wall splat which is the upside of using these.
      • :214::P: crushes mid wake up kicks for a very small window but you risk getting hit and set down on your feet, possibly in a hi counter stun. It doesn't sit down stun mid wake up kicks unfortuantely so it just becomes a deep stun to work with. If you're in the open, you can extend the stun or just launch on the spot with whatever you feel is necessary that fits in he window. I'd say 8p, 33k, or 4k6k/6k. If you get the wall splat, pp2kk for a forced tech. It gives you +16/+17 that you can work around with. This forced tech comes off of just about any wall splat but sometimes you have to delay it little bit since some moves recover fast (i.e. 66P W!)
      • :3::3::K::K: crushes mid wake up kicks for a short window as well. Can get a wall splat and pp2kk for a forced tech
      • :9::K::K::K: is the same deal as above. Crushes mid wake up kicks for a small window and can give the wall splat. pp2kk at the wall for a forced tech.
  • Beating out wake up kicks
    • You're on your own. I find this to be incredibly inconsistent and pointless. 9K can be helpful sometimes against the mid wake up kicks, 4KK sometimes is reliable if pre-timed correctly and sometimes 8k... but I usually don't bother.
  • Special Situations
    • :6::P+K::K: - Silent Legend and I developed some new tech thanks to Gultigargar. After a wind dash K, and 8p+k (ground stomp) is guaranteed if the person doesn't tech. This is good damage and will switch sides for you.

      If the opponent does decide to tech, you will be forced into a BT jab from where you can go straight into your punch strings, pp2k is the best option from there which (iirc) can stop sidestep. I haven't really solidified this in my brain since I've put DOA to rest for now...
Make sure you get that forced tech pressure off the wall splats (pp2kk). Post FT, put down a 2H+K for some advantage (+12) and to clip SS, 4P to stop SS and give you a deep stun as well as mix-up options that could reset the situation. H+K is your high but I don't recommend wasting your time on it. 6PK is just quick to throw out and clip SS and could possibly be reacted to... but I doubt it.
What are the best follow ups to his +2 gaurd breaks? !
I think you meant +3 if you're talking about his elbows. His only +2 is 214K and that's not really a guard break. No one knows that it's advantage on block though so a lot of the time, you'll get a free 6p. Try it.

Post guard break though it's more so character dependent. I won't handle Kasumi after +2, the same way I would handle Brad Wong so it's really up to you.

For Kasumi +2 means my jab well stop anything she has in her arsenal except for high crushes. My 6p will come in at 10 frames so anything she decides to use that's mid will be stopped by that and if they decide to step I can finish the string with the 6pk follow up. 2p is not a good idea...... but it does come in a 12 frames and will reset the situation to +0 putting her in an advantageous situation.

If she respects the guard break and blocks like she should, then you can work with 236T, 7k. Good damage right off the bat. I don't like relying on it, but it's damage...

Raijin is good if you expect her to try and hold for whatever reason.

As for Brad, and 14 frame move will beat what he has since his fastest move is 12 frames (his jab). So 3K will be advantage on NH, stun on CH and HCH, -3 on block which will mean anything that's not his jab will be beaten by Hayate's jab. If Brad likes to 4p8 or SS, 6pk will handle that right off the bat. 4P is also there as an option for step but it's still slower than 6p. 2p is actually useful in this situation since Hayate really is naturally faster than Brad.

Like I said, it's character dependent but you can see the difference between those two and the guesses you have to make so there's never an easy answer.
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
Yeah i mean the elbow ! +3... wow didnt know that
well in that case.

+3 on Kasumi. 6p will stop everything since it's 12 frames, unless she sidesteps. If she sidesteps finish with 6pk, you can also jab for safety but just remember if they like to press buttons 6p will close them off.

As for people who block after the +3, still 236T, 7k and Raijin if they hold. Nakiryu works fine as well on hi counter.
 

Koompbala

Well-Known Member
I almost answered the 2nd question but you do the Raijin Takeda? I don't even bother with it because that dmg nerf.
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
I almost answered the 2nd question but you do the Raijin Takeda? I don't even bother with it because that dmg nerf.
For awhile I did... but I tossed it aside... the Raijin is the best option if you can get it consistently, but that's more so possible on a stick than on a pad.

Otherwise, Nakiryu or the Poor Mans Raijin (33T) works just as well for some good hi counter damage, but remember this is only if you expect a hold which you generally shouldn't against a better player because there's no reason for it, especially at disadvantage.
 

Koompbala

Well-Known Member
Meh I kick myself in the ass every time I use the poor mans raijin. No reason to do it anymore. I use to do it in 4 cause it looked cooler and I couldn't do the Raijin. Now I just do the combo off 426T and Nakiryu for S. Heavies.
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
Yea, reasonable. That's the same reason I used 33T as well, aside from using it as a tactical grab to switch sides.

I always do Nakiryu though, since the combo is just a lot more work that I'm not interested in doing.
 

Jaguar360

Well-Known Member
Meh I kick myself in the ass every time I use the poor mans raijin. No reason to do it anymore. I use to do it in 4 cause it looked cooler and I couldn't do the Raijin. Now I just do the combo off 426T and Nakiryu for S. Heavies.
I use 33T because its quicker for me to do and Nakiryu when I´m sure that the opponent is holding. I need to use 236T more often though.
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
Today I'm finally going to finish the important part of the Hayate guide, "The Mentality Behind Hayate", to say how he really should be played. Speaking honestly, after I finish the guide, I'm dropping Hayate and probably the game all together.

I just don't like playing a character that was known for being able to be aggressive and work basic deadly mix-ups with his mid ranged moves... THEN having to change my style of play just to revert to a character bent off of punishing his opponents mistakes instead of actually being able to GO IN, like he's supposed to.

It's annoying and I'm just not interested.

But... that's also because I play Lars in Tekken. Believe it or not, Lars is everything Hayate should be in DOA, except that game has better mechanics in general... >_>
 

KuRuPt

Member
Premium Donor
Thanks for the advice and detailed reply Takeda. Definitely clarifies what options I have on wake up.The advanced mid-kick hold is something I have not been using and I look forward to incorporating it into my game.
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
It's a very good tool and something else that really plays in Hayate's favor for... well... making good reads and it's very low risk for the most part. Highest risk you take is the opponent getting up and grabbing, but then again if they like taking hi counter 3h+k's and 214P's... they're in a for a show.

Just remember that when you do 46H wake up kicks will simply push you away but they get no guaranteed follow up.
 
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