Hayate's OPinionated Wishlist

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
:hayate:Post 1.03A Patch [Updated : 03/29/13] [New] Tag for things added on this date.

So we've been on a pretty wild ride with Hayate, huh? Went from mid tier to pretty high on the food chain and back to where we started basically. Like most characters in DOA5, Hayate feels incomplete. It seems like they'd given him something to start with and decided... yea that's enough... but Hayate's always lacked that flare to really place him where someone like DOA4 Hayabusa would be.

This is my 3rd try at a list of things that I'd like to see happen to Hayate to really put him back on top.

Feel to post your own.
The Throwbacks
  • :1::K::P: and :1::K::K: - Hayate's low game has been lacking in DOA5. Part of this was because of his loss of 1K. 1K was a very useful unseeable low. It also carried a mid punch and low sweep mixup, which could would be useful as it would give Hayate another launcher to rely on in combo or a nice starting mixup for people that expect the low sweep.

    DOA5's 1k could be switched out for 1H+K

    1KP should be give a solid launch height at the end of the threshold. enough for 8p pp6pk on lights and mediums would be fine, and enough for a pp6pk on heavies.
  • :2::K::K: - This mixup also didn't need to go. Without it, it makes 2K useless because 1P out classes 2k on stun quality and crush properties.
  • :4::H+K: - Better as a raw move. 6P+K K is interesting but unfortunately I enjoyed it more as a launcher. It'd be best if he got both.
  • :236::h: - Teleport. Stun. Wall Splat. Low Slide Kick. Hokage. Can't get away.
The Properties
  • :P::P::K: and :H+K: - This move is very much Hayate's main high mixup in his punch strings in DOA5. Someone like JL gets PPP, or PP6P. Kasumi gets PPK. Even Ryu has PP6P. Altering the properties of this move to obtain a stun like Kasumi's H+K/PPK which will link together with the wind dash cancel that is a possibility for this move.
  • :3::K: - Should sit down stun crouching opponents on CH and in stun again even if the stun is weaker. The guaranteed cb was overkill I admit so I wouldn't mind it being taken away as an option, but 8p seems fair as an alternate option and the only other thing that'd be available would be 33k at an invisible wall (i.e. the invisible wall in the water on Zack Island). The sit down push back could be brought down a bit so that the 8p is the only option launcher wise.
  • :2::H+K: Variants - On should trip stun on NH again so that Hayate will have more freedom into the stun game +15 is fine. CH can stay the same stun and HCH can still knockdown.

    Also -15 on block is kind of messed up, but -11 and -13 like in DOA4 would be nicer. A lot of people have better low sweeps for -10 and etc, it's stupid to punish Hayate when he doesn't even have follow ups to his besides 3H+KKP.
  • :236::K: - +5 again, please? Thank you.
  • :3::H+K::K::P: - Since this move is unsafe (unsafer than it was) at all points it should be delayable like before with the delay window tightened up slightly so that shenanigans would be [less] possible but hit confirming would be. Most high leveled players free cancel anyway so if we want it free cancelled right away we can do it ourselves but the freedom hit confirm it would be excellent. Delaying the last punch will take away the 2 in 1 setup.
  • [New] :6::6::K::K:- Mimic Ayane's 66K stun properties. This would become his alternate mid kick stun, which would link directly into his 66KK for a 360 turn around stun which would guarantee the final kick (66KKK), and give enough advantage for wind dash launchers to link. Also add SS tracking to 66KK to lock people who don't duck it.
  • :6::P+K: :K: - This should be available as 4H+K as it was in DOA4, but also available as a launcher from the wind dash.
  • Safety on SS :P: (-8), :3::H+K::K::P: (-5), :6::P::K: (Push back), :6::6::K::K::K: (Guard Break)
  • :6::6::P: (-9) (purpose of this is to extend the guard lock so that these weak follow ups can't just be beaten out by a quick mid)
  • [New]:6::P+K: Air Retracking - This would open up need opportunities for Hayate, especially with his post Raijin launch combos or post cb 6k launch, since 4p 6p+k slides right under the opponent. It should retrack in specific situations giving him an edge to really work his combos out sorta like Lars in Tekken with his FF2 SE, or WS1 SE.
  • :214::P::P::P: or :3_::P::P: - The delay window should be opened up only so slightly for this so it can be hit confirmed.
The New
  • [New]:4::6::P: - New Notation for CB
  • [New]:7::P:- New high string mix-ups
    • [New]:7::P:- High hook like Hitomi's 7p (tracking)
      • [New]:7::P::P: - High palm like Hitomi's 7pp (no tracking)
      • [New]:7::P::P::P: - Ends with a punch like Hitomi's 7hp (no tracking)
      • [New]:7::P::P::[[P]]: - Rekkuga (+3) guard break option (no tracking)
    • [New]:7::P::K:- Mid Knee like Lisa's 4pk (no tracking)
      • [New]:P::K::P: - Mid Punch like Hitomi's 4kp (no tracking)
      • [New]:7::P::K::2::K: - Step in 2h+k low sweep. (tracking)
  • [New]:2::P+K::K:/:8::P+K::K: - Should be a new SS low sweep. The kick animation could be the low sweep from Kasumi's 6H+K2K.

    Stun should work like Helena's BKO Sweep (Opens up for a 6p, -13 on block.)
  • [New]:1::P::[[P]]: Rekkuga (+3) - Rekkuga is Hayate's new 66P+K guard break. Seeing as 1pp is just as unsafe as all the other options in Hayate's Rekkuga arsenal, I think that 1p(p) would be a fair option to have.
The Throw + Hold Game
  • :6::P+K::H+P: on BT Opponent - Damage buff from 55 to 60+
  • [New] :6::4::h: - Hayate should have an Expert Mid Punch Hold. 33T from DOA4 would be a great animation to plug in for it.
Stance Ideas
  • Return :236::h:and all of it's options.
    • :236::h: - High Crush Frames in the later part of the dash
    • :236::h: :5: :P:- This one should can stay as is.
      • [New]:236::h: :5: :P::6::P+K: - Transition into Wind Dash
    • :236::h: :5: :K: - This one can stay as is (high crush)
    • :236::h: :5: :2::K: - Crushing high mids would be nice for this one
    • :236::h: :5: :H+P: - Hokage as it was before
    • :236::h: :5: :6::6: - Wind Dash
  • Wind Dash Transitions
    • [New] - :P::P::K::6::P+K: or :H+K::6::P+K:- New Wind Dash Transition.
    • [New] - :6::6::K::K::6::P+K: - New Wind Dash Transition.
    • [New] - :1::K::6::P+K:- Wind Dash Cancel (just like pp2k6p+k).
  • [New] - :7::P+K::6_:and :7::P+K::6::P+K:- New transitions. :6_: goes to DOA4 Wind Dash. :6::P+K: goes into DOA5 Wind Dash.
 

Chaos

Well-Known Member
IMO those moves are not OP, TN is just too stupid to notice that. And they need to bring all those awesome moves back & hitomi's
:K::2::K::P:
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
IMO those moves are not OP, TN is just too stupid to notice that. And they need to bring all those awesome moves back & hitomi's
K down kp
When I wrote this I just didn't want to sound like a spoiled d---. There use to be a lot of characters that were worse than him, but they've all taken a step up, except Lisa/La Mariposa. But now that I've heard from Allan that Hayate really is crap, I actually do want TN to see this, as well as get more ideas. I just want Hayate to hit god tier like Ryu, though Ryu is god tier for special reasons...

I guess atleast on the brightside his damage and juggle capability is still viable, but I hope the gravity of his hi-counter launch off of 8p gets fixed too, because that going under them crap ruins everything.
 

Allan Paris

Well-Known Member
I won't go over all of your moves but, he still has his neutral throw. His 6P stuns on CH like it should.

Making him safer, and giving him significant frame advantage from his chargeable moves would be a good start. Allowing him to CB in few hits would help him or any other character greatly. He should be allowed to teleport from his new dash, he could do it in DoA4. I don't see why that option was stripped from him. His 1K shouldn't be a stand alone move, that can go back into his dash options. Give him back his old 1K with the punch follow up along with the properties of it from DOA3.1.
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
I won't go over all of your moves but, he still has his neutral throw. His 6P stuns on CH like it should.

Making him safer, and giving him significant frame advantage from his chargeable moves would be a good start. Allowing him to CB in few hits would help him or any other character greatly. He should be allowed to teleport from his new dash, he could do it in DoA4. I don't see why that option was stripped from him. His 1K shouldn't be a stand alone move, that can go back into his dash options. Give him back his old 1K with punch follow up along with properties of it from DOA3.1.
Did 1kp have relaunch properties? It doesn't seem like it did in DOA4 but I saw a vid just now of him using it. That'd be nice, since he doesn't seem to have a move that relaunches(Aside from 9kk, which can't really be pulled off outside of team combos as far as I've seen, though I'll check again)
 

Allan Paris

Well-Known Member
9KK can keep the opponent in the air to extend juggles? What about the recovery of him coming down from the air and the opponent dropping? I didn't know that could work, can you post or link a video of him doing that? I don't think I've seen that before.

Yeah in DOA3.1 1KP were used in his juggles for the relaunch properties it had. That should be in DOA5 for Hayate.
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
9KK can keep the opponent in the air to extend juggles? What about the recovery of him coming down from the air and the opponent dropping? I didn't know that could work, can you post or link a video of him doing that? I don't think I've seen that before.

Yeah in DOA3.1 1KP were used in his juggles for the relaunch properties it had. That should be in DOA5 for Hayate.
Here's a good vid. It's got some nice team combos and the 9kk is after 0:47. Apparently you can get it off of :4::K::K:, but you need someone to catch him it looks like, and also there's a minor slope. You should fool around with it in single practice though, maybe you can put something after that though I doubt anything could get it, maybe :1::K::K: or :1::P::K:
 

Allan Paris

Well-Known Member
Lol I still can't click on the video. I can't find the name of the video you gave me on YouTube. But I can tell you that the properties of moves change in DOA's tag system. So that kick can keep the opponent in the air for more juggle damage, in tag. In singles I highly doubt that is doing that. Even if it did Hayate's recovery is too long for him to follow up with anything. There are not enough deep slopes in the game to bother with it.

To clearify the move you are talking about is 9KKK. 3 kicks (mid, high, mid) that takes him in the air and back to ground?
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
Lol I still can't click on the video. I can't find the name of the video you gave me on YouTube. But I can tell you that the properties of moves change in DOA's tag system. So that kick can keep the opponent in the air for more juggle damage, in tag. In singles I highly doubt that is doing that. Even if it did Hayate's recovery is too long for him to follow up with anything. There are not enough deep slopes in the game to bother with it.

To clearify the move you are talking about is 9KKK. 3 kicks (mid, high, mid) that takes him in the air and back to ground?
Yea, that makes sense about the properties changing, ummm come to the chat room really quick and lets see if i can give you the link there. Otherwise here's the exact stun game to get to the combo atleast to see if it'll catch them.

:4:(:P+K:):Link::6::P::Link::P::Link::4::K::K::Link::9::K::K:
 

Allan Paris

Well-Known Member
Now I am able to see the link you put up in your previous post. I still can't click on the video. I saw the juggle though. Going that far into the stun game in DOA5 you might as well bait the hold or CB. That combination of attacks don't launch until the 5th hit. I promise you that it will be held out of before you get to the 5th hit. :4_: :P+K: is not a charge attack anymore and it is now his CB attack. It also changed a hit level, it was once a high now it's a mid punch.
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
Now I am able to see the link you put up in your previous post. I still can't click on the video. I saw the juggle though. Going that far into the stun game in DOA5 you might as well bait the hold or CB. That combination of attacks don't launch until the 5th hit. I promise you that it will be held out of before you get to the 5th hit. :4_: :P+K: is not a charge attack anymore and it is now his CB attack. It also changed a hit level, it was once a high now it's a mid punch.
Well... that's true. Idk everytime I see those first two kicks I visualize Lars from Tekken 6. He's got those two kicks, and he gets a combo off of it, by low punching as soon as he lands, but even low punches have slight relaunching properties in that game. Plus combos can be extended with binds, but doa doesn't have that, just ground bounce launches... bummer.

Well... that's true. Idk everytime I see those first two kicks I visualize Lars from Tekken 6. He's got those two kicks, and he gets a combo off of it, by low punching as soon as he lands, but even low punches have slight relaunching properties in that game. Plus combos can be extended with binds, but doa doesn't have that, just ground bounce launches... bummer.
Edit: I stand corrected. Atleast Kasumi has a bind/rebounding relauncher.
Sorry for the double post, thought i pressed edit -.-
 

Allan Paris

Well-Known Member
Same here, PL. The canceling of it was a very nice touch. His options in it suck because they are either unsafe as hell or cause a GB that he can't be follow up with anything after it. As it stands now his new wind dash is all gimmicks. It can be something great if he got some buffs for it.
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
I like his new wind dash over his old one.

Same here, PL. The canceling of it was a very nice touch. His options in it suck because they are either unsafe as hell or cause a GB that he can't be follow up with anything after it. As it stands now his new wind dash is all gimmicks. It can be something great if he got some buffs for it.

I was actually thinking about it last night, since the SS system was worked on, the old wind dash is pretty much gunna be a lot less useful, people are gunna see it from a mile away and just move, leaving Hayate completely open. As much as I'd like it back I guess it's not a good idea, though, putting the mid kick slide and low kick slide in would be nice, even if you had to do the charged move cancel just to get those, more of a mix up game I guess.

Did they toss 6P+K?
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
He still has 6P+K, the shoulder budge.
my bad, I meant 6f+k, I saw PL use it a lot, once against Master in the WCG, and once against Offbeat in CGS.
It beat out Master's mid kick wakeup, and i think it crushes low kick wake ups...
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
Now that move is gone. Why the move was taken away is beyond me. That was one of the first few moves I was looking for.
Yea. Is there anything in place of it? Or no? And are there any new stand alone kick moves, besides the "new" 1k?
 
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