Hayate's Pseudo Force Tech Game

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
So I decided to start this since no one else has. I wanna know what he's got so lets see what we can come up with.

[Pseudo Force Tech Moves]

:2::H+K:(+16)
:3::H+K:(+15)
:1_::P::K:(+16)

[Example Setups]
Post Launch :P::P::P: :~: :2::H+K: Light and Mid Weights Only
This a simple bread and butter cancel into a possible force tech. Hopefully the player won't expect it and you'll get the force tech. Follow ups to it could be range from breaking his guard if he blocks, grabbing him if he blocks, or maintaining guard break pressure with :6::6::P::P: or Wind Dash P.


:8::K: :~: :3::H+K: All Weights
Grants +15 on Force Tech
Gives -5 on Tech

This sacrifices a chance at damage to make them stand up right next to you, if they try to attack after being force teched you can get them with a 6pk to be safe. If you're sure they'll go for an attack or grab, cut them off with 8p juggle, or 33k juggle, or you can reset the situation with 8k again. Another idea is too pull a 66P+K for some good guard break pressure. Sets you at +1 and you become Kasumi for the next move.

If they tech themselves, you'll be at -5, so you may have to block, or ss. If you side step you can set yourself up for SS K Force Tech Situation

[HCH] :8::K:: :~: :3::H+K: :~: :1_::P::K: LightWeights Only
Grants +16 on FT
Grants mix-up on tech.

The :3::H+K: becomes guaranteed and is a ground bounce. The bounce is so small that nothing can string after it, not even the K in the full string, but 1pk force them for +16. If the opponent techs before the 1pk, it's ok, because the kick will still catch them. After awhile they may realize after the tech roll they can low guard the kick, and they may even go for a hold. That's the beauty of this moment. Now you've developed a 50/50 situation. If you trade out 1pk for 1pp you'll knock them down, but you have to slightly delay the punch for it to not whiff. Another option is that if you know they'll just stand and guard or hold mid punch, you can get a wind dash grab on them, but not other option from the wind dash will connect unless you delay them by a lot.

[RISKY Setups for People Who Stay on the Ground(can wake up kick)]

:3::P::P: :~: :1::P::K: All Weights
How this one works is after you given enough force tech pressure, a person WILL try at some point to stay on the ground. Doing this will slam them to the ground you'll get your force tech opportunity. They can wake up kick so be wary, this is for ONLY when you feel like they won't do anything. 1pk nets you +16 so follow up with the same as before.

Anyone else got stuff?
 

Nereus

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
this force tech also applies to jann lee when you do :6::P::2::K: after a launch.. time it right you can get a force tech.... i usually do :1::P: to force tech w/ jann lee which also gives you +16 just like hayate. The problem w/ the :P::P::2_::K::K: is the fact that the timing is really strict and easy to slip up... and god knows how many times you'll mess up online. i don't understand the :8::K: :~: :3::H+K:? is it a force tech? or can they tech?
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
this force tech also applies to jann lee when you do :6::P::2::K: after a launch.. time it right you can get a force tech.... i usually do :1::P: to force tech w/ jann lee which also gives you +16 just like hayate. The problem w/ the :P::P::2_::K::K: is the fact that the timing is really strict and easy to slip up... and god knows how many times you'll mess up online. i don't understand the :8::K: :~: :3::H+K:? is it a force tech? or can they tech?
Yea I'm gunna erase PP2KK. It's too unreliable. PPP~2H+K is guaranteed pretty much.

Now to your question. A Pseudo Force Tech is... a fake force tech. What that means is, simply, the opponent can tech roll by themselves, BUT the difference is, if they don't react and tech roll you get this hit guaranteed, which puts you at a situation of advantage for your next move, take this set up for example:

[CH] :8::P: :~: :P::P::P: :~: :2::H+K:
You get the launcher then you do PPP now there's two ways this could end. Your opponent could just not tech and you'll hit the sweep kick leaving you at +16 and it abolishes the worry of a wake up kick, While giving you the option to go for a follow up, and if it's timed well enough, you can impact them right on the frame that they become able to be touched again.

The alternative to this situation is that they do tech, which will still leave you at +2, meaning you are safe. Still, and that anything you do will be a bit faster than their move.

This is why we call it Pseudo Force Techs, because they're not true force techs. The only person I know who has a true force tech is Tina(6H+K, 8p), which is deadly. You are set to have no options off of that. Is it over powered? Well... no, the fact that it is what it is, is not over powered, but the fact that no one has true force techs anymore is the problem. Helena and Hayate live off of their stun game, and have to sacrifice damage to take a chance at better setups.

:8::K: :~: :3::H+K: works the same
The kick launcher is a NH launcher, so basically on NH and CH, you won't get the guaranteed 3H+K. I still have to look into it, because I forgot what advantage it gives, I believe it's +25, but I could be wrong, it might be +11 on hit.
If they tech themselves, you're at -3 with some distance from them, so you're pretty much safe.

Another special thing for this on Natural Hit and Counter Hit is that if they make the mistake off not teching, and get up and try to attack, I can take a chance and 8k again to get a reset, making the whole situation play out again, or I can end it with a stronger wall carrying juggle. See what I mean. Mind games.

Now on a HI Counter launch this is where it shines. The 3H+K can ground bounce if you buffer it correctly meaning you can follow up with a different force tech. Personally I like the idea of 1p. Why? 1p itself does not force tech, but 1pk does. So 1pk force techs. Great. Now what if they tech themselves? The k in 1pk will still hit them. Soon they'll realize your game and start to try to low hold or low guard. This is where you blow their fucking mind. You can exchange 1pk for 1pp, which will hit mid and knock them down giving you an option to play the wake up game if you'd like or just to back off.

Does that make sense?
 

Nereus

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Yea I'm gunna erase PP2KK. It's too unreliable. PPP~2H+K is guaranteed pretty much.

Now to your question. A Pseudo Force Tech is... a fake force tech. What that means is, simply, the opponent can tech roll by themselves, BUT the difference is, if they don't react and tech roll you get this hit guaranteed, which puts you at a situation of advantage for your next move, take this set up for example:

[CH] :8::P: :~: :P::P::P: :~: :2::H+K:
You get the launcher then you do PPP now there's two ways this could end. Your opponent could just not tech and you'll hit the sweep kick leaving you at +16 and it abolishes the worry of a wake up kick, While giving you the option to go for a follow up, and if it's timed well enough, you can impact them right on the frame that they become able to be touched again.

The alternative to this situation is that they do tech, which will still leave you at +2, meaning you are safe. Still, and that anything you do will be a bit faster than their move.

This is why we call it Pseudo Force Techs, because they're not true force techs. The only person I know who has a true force tech is Tina(6H+K, 8p), which is deadly. You are set to have no options off of that. Is it over powered? Well... no, the fact that it is what it is, is not over powered, but the fact that no one has true force techs anymore is the problem. Helena and Hayate live off of their stun game, and have to sacrifice damage to take a chance at better setups.

:8::K: :~: :3::H+K: works the same
The kick launcher is a NH launcher, so basically on NH and CH, you won't get the guaranteed 3H+K. I still have to look into it, because I forgot what advantage it gives, I believe it's +25, but I could be wrong, it might be +11 on hit.
If they tech themselves, you're at -3 with some distance from them, so you're pretty much safe.

Another special thing for this on Natural Hit and Counter Hit is that if they make the mistake off not teching, and get up and try to attack, I can take a chance and 8k again to get a reset, making the whole situation play out again, or I can end it with a stronger wall carrying juggle. See what I mean. Mind games.

Now on a HI Counter launch this is where it shines. The 3H+K can ground bounce if you buffer it correctly meaning you can follow up with a different force tech. Personally I like the idea of 1p. Why? 1p itself does not force tech, but 1pk does. So 1pk force techs. Great. Now what if they tech themselves? The k in 1pk will still hit them. Soon they'll realize your game and start to try to low hold or low guard. This is where you blow their fucking mind. You can exchange 1pk for 1pp, which will hit mid and knock them down giving you an option to play the wake up game if you'd like or just to back off.

Does that make sense?

Yes but to say there are no true force techs... Like I said before Jann lee has one (1k) and Tina as well.. Thanks for the explanation wish you had xbl
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
Yes but to say there are no true force techs... Like I said before Jann lee has one (1k) and Tina as well.. Thanks for the explanation wish you had xbl
Sorry. What I mean to say is that most other characters don't have good guaranteed force tech setups or atleast they're yet to be discovered. I pointed out(At least one)of Tina's true force techs (6H+K ~ 8p). It wouldn't surprise me that Jann has a true force tech also, but it's kinda bad ass that 1k is it, I love that kick.

and yeah sorry, I've never had a 360. I've really wanted one though for the longest time now. Maybe some other time.
 

Nereus

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
So
Sorry. What I mean to say is that most other characters don't have good guaranteed force tech setups or atleast they're yet to be discovered. I pointed out(At least one)of Tina's true force techs (6H+K ~ 8p). It wouldn't surprise me that Jann has a true force tech also, but it's kinda bad ass that 1k is it, I love that kick.

and yeah sorry, I've never had a 360. I've really wanted one though for the longest time now. Maybe some other time.

Sorry, I meant 1p
 

Nereus

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
N... No... (hides stash of kenichi and sengoku basara stuff)

...
Lol..... When u get a chance look up Mirai Nikki (Future Diary)... The manga's finished (50+ chapters) it's good though. Dude, there's actually a manga called " My Balls" xD
 

Madian

Active Member
Nice thread ZX. I was trying to find force techs myself but alas to no avail. At least we have this.

This will come in handy off of launchers that don't give a whole lot of damage to begin with. If the opponent rolls out you are safe enough away that they can't capitalize on the -6. This also puts you in a fairly safe mix up since the opponent has to guess if either you are going to do a force tech or go for oki setups. If they guess wrong they are at a big disadvantage.
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
Nice thread ZX. I was trying to find force techs myself but alas to no avail. At least we have this.

This will come in handy off of launchers that don't give a whole lot of damage to begin with. If the opponent rolls out you are safe enough away that they can't capitalize on the -6. This also puts you in a fairly safe mix up since the opponent has to guess if either you are going to do a force tech or go for oki setups. If they guess wrong they are at a big disadvantage.
Yep, I'm gunna work more out later on, but this seems like it's it honestly. He doesn't have a lot of lows or ground hitting moves to begin with. It use to be a lot simpler in DOA4. Knock them away, run after them 2p, 1p, they're up, you've got the advantage. -Shrugs- now its tough shit.
 

Nate

Active Member
A combo like (lightweight) :6::6::P:, extend :3::P:, launch :6::K:, :8::P:, :P::P::2_::K::K: force techs "for real".

Generally using :P::P::2_::K::K: as an ender can force tech if you delay the last kick so it connects as they touch the ground. A little practice in training shows how this is (at least offline) very easy to do. The string is highly delayable, making it that much easier.
 

Nereus

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
A combo like (lightweight) :6::6::P:, extend :3::P:, launch :6::K:, :8::P:, :P::P::2_::K::K: force techs "for real".

Generally using :P::P::2_::K::K: as an ender can force tech if you delay the last kick so it connects as they touch the ground. A little practice in training shows how this is (at least offline) very easy to do. The string is highly delayable, making it that much easier.

true... but if your talking about "Online"... it's gonna be rough/almost not guaranteed due to lag as a factor... and send me a message towards my GT if you wanna online dojo etc..
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
I play online but I plan on going offline as much as I can. That being said, online can be good practice to learn some matchups but to test this stuff, I'd let it go for now.
 

Madian

Active Member
[launch] :P::P::2_::K: timed perfectly will grant a true reset even on heavies but it's a very strict window. It leaves you at +22
 

Nate

Active Member
Here is another "real" force tech:

:9::P:, :3::P::P:, *sit down stun*, :3::3::K: launcher, :6::K:, :P::P::2_::K::K:

Note: :8::P: launcher can be escaped, :3::3::K: cannot.
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
Here is another "real" force tech:

:9::P:, :3::P::P:, *sit down stun*, :3::3::K: launcher, :6::K:, :P::P::2_::K::K:

Note: :8::P: launcher can be escaped, :3::3::K: cannot.
Cause it's a 15 frame launch right? Alright, that's good. I'll remember that.

I'll update the original post, tonight.
 

Oracle

New Member
A combo like (lightweight) :6::6::P:, extend :3::P:, launch :6::K:, :8::P:, :P::P::2_::K::K: force techs "for real".

Generally using :P::P::2_::K::K: as an ender can force tech if you delay the last kick so it connects as they touch the ground. A little practice in training shows how this is (at least offline) very easy to do. The string is highly delayable, making it that much easier.

I found a force tech that does not requre a specific timing on mid weights that may help considering the second kick can be a pain.

(example) :9::P: ,extend:3: :K: ,extend:3: :P:,CB,:3_::P::P::~: :P::P::2_::K::K:

Slight delay on second kick in :P::P::2_: :K::K: on light weights. I like this because on mids theres no delay and on lights its a very small delay.
 
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