Hitomi is too weak

#1
I'm so sick of losing with Hitomi against cheap and horrid players who know no better than mash unsafe high P strings and still get way with it.

Something is off with her frames, her fastest mid is 13 frames and beyond that she doesn't have any fastest move to answer with (relatively speaking, her move will lose based on frames in most cases) except for the one high punch she has that is useless unless used with string since people in front of you can mash out in between the first P and the third which is 18 FRAMES ?

How are you supposed to play against fast characters with Hitomi? it's impossible she is fu***** useless against any kasumi, christie, jann lee...

I got out of matches against these types of character, I've played safe and tried various things, from fast pokes to long range attacks, in most cases like I said, her moves will lose against their mashing and there is nothing you can do about it.
Try fighting Jann Lee with Hitomi and tell me that this isn't unbalanced, unless you mix it up and play around counter-throw holds game, then you will lose against the dumbest masher because that's the problem with Hitomi, her mid Punches will not save you against mashers, all you can do is being a little risky and go for low punches but then you would lose against any mid strikes since her low punches are 14 FRAMES and 15 FRAMES ( for
1P)
So in Jann Lee case for instance, you can have somebody putting you into that low P, high kick mix-up+ sit down (guaranteed and no hold is possible) and Hitomi has no viable answer once he starts mashing out high punches even when you guard.
maybe you can sidestep, but sometimes you can fail it and get hit on counter or get hit by a tracking move.

With Christie it's even worse, you can get rushed with simple mid punches/low kick mix-ups.

What the **** is this?

And on top of that last patch they didn't find any better than buff f****** CHRISTIE?

Team Ninja, stop screwing around, CAN WE HAVE A BUFF FOR HITOMI ?

THANKS
 
#3
Ok yeah, very interesting.
No offense but what kind of fart answer is this?
So because that guy, is good with Hitomi it means that the character cannot be subject to some flaws or balancing problems?
I'm assuming that Eliot is now top tier since that one Vietnamese tournament player(arguably the best Eliot by the way) won at 10 matchesat his local while training in his basement for 15 years straight, I can learn a thing or two..

With every problem a player encounters in-game you answer back the name of a top player?
Coming from a Kasumi/phase/momiji player I'm hardly surprised.

I'll go play hipster afterwards and watch those videos, I'm not here to learn just yet but to discuss her abnormal weaknesses.
 

tokiopewpew

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#4
I got out of matches against these types of character, I've played safe and tried various things, from fast pokes to long range attacks, in most cases like I said, her moves will lose against their mashing and there is nothing you can do about it...

... Hitomi has no viable answer once he starts mashing out high punches even when you guard.
Hitomi has a parry that catches both high and mid punches to deal with characters that are faster as her (and said P mashers, if you want).

Not being as fast by herself is a result of her ability to get minor frame advantage relatively easily in close range while still being pretty safe. And in addition to that, she still has very solid tools at any other range.

If you take a closer look at Jann Lee, you will notice that his options for getting in on someone and open him up are pretty limited too. He does not have extended strings for that and those he got contain very slow low sweeps that are reactable to. High crushing moves like Hitomi's 1P or 2P can ruin this offense attempts easily because they will also avoid his dragon gunner, and everything else he could use is a commitment that will result in huge disadvantage (and therefore damage) if not being fruitful. Once Jann Lee has to start offensive due to not being at life lead, he will have to work harder as Hitomi because she has more room for mistakes in that department.
 
#5
I'm sorry FSD Bros but I have to go with @Sachertorte on this one.

Although I don't want Hitomi to be any faster..... I just one of her other moves perhaps within the i15 Frame category would stun on normal hit.

Coming from a a grappling Background playing at a speed and spacing and even a minor range/reach Dis advantage has been a problem for me.... infact its Natural Style..... I just play better with Grapplers for some reason (cruiser weight grapplers.... not gigantic brutes)

Penetrating an opponents defense with Hitomi is just so difficult.... because even if you do get a hit..... you might not get the stun...... and man I NEED THE STUN so bad.

This is probably because I haven't mastered the art of setting up Counter hit Scenarios or the moves the I normally use for normal hit and on Block (you know.... guard breaks and what not) don't work as well on counter hit.

TC is right because its the same thing with Eliot..... Eliot's mid Options are terrible when you compare them with just how great his Highs are. Its an awkward position for and I honestly don't know where to put him on the tier list because of this.

Hw certainly doesn't belong at the bottom.... but I feel like he's got these awkward weakness that prevent from joining the Mid Tiers like Tina or an upper Mid like Jacky.

I mean Alpha is equally awkward but despite her Disadvantages she doesn't feel as weak..... it helps that she has holds the title for having two of the fastest moves their type in the game.... much like how Eliot has the Strongest i9'er in the game.

LoL.... what were we talking about again ? Oh yes... Hitomi.

She needs a change man.... just one tiny nuance and shes all good.
 

tokiopewpew

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#6
Although I don't want Hitomi to be any faster..... I just one of her other moves perhaps within the i15 Frame category would stun on normal hit.

Penetrating an opponents defense with Hitomi is just so difficult.... because even if you do get a hit..... you might not get the stun...... and man I NEED THE STUN so bad.

This is probably because I haven't mastered the art of setting up Counter hit Scenarios or the moves the I normally use for normal hit and on Block (you know.... guard breaks and what not) don't work as well on counter hit.

She needs a change man.... just one tiny nuance and shes all good.
She got plenty of moves that fit your requirement. 6K (13 frames), K (14), 4K (15), 9P (15) just to name a few. Just because you are not familiar with playing a striker who's offensive is based on strings, free-canceling and string delay and you don't seem to have taken a deeper look into doesn't mean that she needs to be changed.
 
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#8
She got plenty of moves that are that fast and stun on normal hit. 6K (13 frames), K (14), 4K (15), 9P (15) just to name a few. Just because you are not familiar with playing a striker who's offensive is based on strings and string delay and you actually don't seem to have taken a deeper look into doesn't mean that she needs to be changed.
Well shes no Sarah thats for sure..... I have some experience with Striking Characters..... and I stand by everything I said.

I also avoid using High attacks because the AI crushes them everysingle time.
 

tokiopewpew

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#9
Well shes no Sarah thats for sure..... I have some experience with Striking Characters..... and I stand by everything I said.

I also avoid using High attacks because the AI crushes them everysingle time.
No, the AI doesn't crush them every single time as long as you're not spamming them. Nobody can help you by explaining what kind of things you can do or even by buffing a character if you impose limitations on yourself which will hinder you, rather than working with what you got.
 
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#10
If you think Hitomi is bad... NEVER play Ein lol Hitomi is leagues better.

Hitomi did get a few nerfs in Last Round and is definitely worse than her vanilla counterpart but she's still a decent character with alot of potential not to mention SOO many mix ups and lows.

She could be better but she doesn't need to be there are characters who way worse.
 

Force_of_Nature

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#11
I'm so sick of losing with Hitomi against cheap and horrid players who know no better than mash unsafe high P strings and still get way with it.

Something is off with her frames, her fastest mid is 13 frames and beyond that she doesn't have any fastest move to answer with (relatively speaking, her move will lose based on frames in most cases) except for the one high punch she has that is useless unless used with string since people in front of you can mash out in between the first P and the third which is 18 FRAMES ?

How are you supposed to play against fast characters with Hitomi? it's impossible she is fu***** useless against any kasumi, christie, jann lee...

I got out of matches against these types of character, I've played safe and tried various things, from fast pokes to long range attacks, in most cases like I said, her moves will lose against their mashing and there is nothing you can do about it.
Try fighting Jann Lee with Hitomi and tell me that this isn't unbalanced, unless you mix it up and play around counter-throw holds game, then you will lose against the dumbest masher because that's the problem with Hitomi, her mid Punches will not save you against mashers, all you can do is being a little risky and go for low punches but then you would lose against any mid strikes since her low punches are 14 FRAMES and 15 FRAMES ( for
1P)
So in Jann Lee case for instance, you can have somebody putting you into that low P, high kick mix-up+ sit down (guaranteed and no hold is possible) and Hitomi has no viable answer once he starts mashing out high punches even when you guard.
maybe you can sidestep, but sometimes you can fail it and get hit on counter or get hit by a tracking move.

With Christie it's even worse, you can get rushed with simple mid punches/low kick mix-ups.

What the **** is this?

And on top of that last patch they didn't find any better than buff f****** CHRISTIE?

Team Ninja, stop screwing around, CAN WE HAVE A BUFF FOR HITOMI ?

THANKS
It's seems like your problems derive from:

1. Online lag skewing frame data
2. Ignorance of other character's attributes
3. Not understanding Hitomi fully, such as knowing that she has a punch parry, 9H, to deal with characters with faster punches than her such as Christie or Kasumi

Furthermore, Hitomi should be zoning characters "faster" than her. Don't let them stay close too often.

Hitomi should not be losing to Jann lee. 9H can stuff his i11 6P. Hitomi has a +1 2P to start her offense against opponents that spam highs. When you get on offense, run the offensive mix-ups along with 6T.

For the record, IMO, no one should ever recommend buffs or nerfs based on online play.
 
#13
No, the AI doesn't crush them every single time as long as you're not spamming them. Nobody can help you by explaining what kind of things you can do or even by buffing a character if you impose limitations on yourself which will hinder you, rather than working with what you got.
Actually it does..... atleast on Level 8 it does...... among other things like String Perect Blocking, Always Beating Throws with strikes and offensive holds with Throws. It never guesses wrong because it isn't actually guessing. It reacts to almost everything.

Everytime I fight the AI... I don't beat it so much as its just letting me win. Which has lead to me developing seriously awful bad habbits.

FYI I beat the AI by Spamming Mids..... not even different mids.... its always the exact same mid. I doubt a human player would let me get away with this.
 
Main Character
Hitomi
#14
I don't know if Hitomi is weak or not because my level doesn't allow me to tell that. But she could MAYBE be funnier to play.
It's like I'm constently playing with mind-anticipation to compensate his slowness and his 50/50 advantage concept. Performing a punishing critical combo string with her against people with a decent level is a fcking chess game =D.

She definitely needs hadoken.
 
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#15
I don't know if Hitomi is weak or not because my level doesn't allow me to tell that. But she could MAYBE be funnier to play.
It's like I'm constently playing with mind-anticipation to compensate his slowness and his 50/50 advantage concept. Performing a punishing critical combo string with her against people with a decent level is a fcking chess game =D.

She definitely needs hadoken.
Hitomi is an ez character to open to beginners as her inputs aren't hard and she's about as standard as a fighter gets, a jack of all trades if u will. However her neutral game must be VERY strong for her to be played at high level play. You are going to learn later on that hitomi can play offensively yes, but I believe her defense is key. Not only Like any character she can whiff punish, throw punish but also she has an excellent punch parry if you r expecting a punching crush. However she has many weaknesses (which I won't list cause it's in another big thread) but when u build hitomi to be an impenetrable defense, the offense will naturally comes as then u can punish unsafe moves and then with her 6t leaving her at +10, gives you no guarantee follow up but trust me that 6T really gets into an opponents head as they have no clue what u can do after. She's definitely ez to play but to master that's a massive uphill climb. If u have a PS3 I would b more than willing to fight you with my own hitomi and show a little of what she can really do. Although I'm not the best, I can find my way around XD
 

Force_of_Nature

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#16
I don't know if Hitomi is weak or not because my level doesn't allow me to tell that. But she could MAYBE be funnier to play.
It's like I'm constently playing with mind-anticipation to compensate his slowness and his 50/50 advantage concept. Performing a punishing critical combo string with her against people with a decent level is a fcking chess game =D.

She definitely needs hadoken.
What's wrong with Chess? It's one of the most complex, in-depth games ever created. As for Hitomi being funnier, it doesn't get funnier than RAWR'ing someone after you blast them with a deathfist.

For all those complaining about Hitomi, play Ein first. Level up with him to a competent degree, then return to Hitomi to see if you really think she's "weak". It'll change your perspective on the character.

And yes, Hitomi is an "easy-to-use-hard-to-master" character, but so is about 90% of the rest of the roster. DOA5LR keeps the barrier of entry "low", but dumps a shitload of complexities at you down the line as you learn how the game is really played.
 
Main Character
Hitomi
#17
If u have a PS3 I would b more than willing to fight you with my own hitomi and show a little of what she can really do. Although I'm not the best, I can find my way around XD
I'm interested in, but too bad I have only XBOX360 and PC version haha. For the first step I need to watch Tanii's video as suggested by Emperor_Cow :)
And yes I noted that Hitomi is kinda defensive character, and that his 6T is a nightmare xD

What's wrong with Chess?
I prefer Monopoly
 
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#18
What's wrong with Chess? It's one of the most complex, in-depth games ever created.
Well theres the issue of "first move advantage" for starters.

And then theres the much bigger issue that plagues anygame with an emphasis on resources.... A Local Imbalance: Chess is a Balanced game but as soon as pieces start coming off the board the scales begin to tip so hard they never recover. I really don't like Chess. :(
 

Force_of_Nature

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#19
Well theres the issue of "first move advantage" for starters.

And then theres the much bigger issue that plagues anygame with an emphasis on resources.... A Local Imbalance: Chess is a Balanced game but as soon as pieces start coming off the board the scales begin to tip so hard they never recover. I really don't like Chess. :(
This makes minimal sense with respect to DOA5LR & Hitomi.

I prefer Monopoly
Ironically Monopoly's about as luck-based as games come compared to Chess, for which the "rock-paper-scissors: LUCK" system is a huge area of criticism from the FGC with regards to DOA's gameplay. I.e. A lot of ignorant folk think DOA's gameplay is just luck-based RPS, which is bullshit considering that there are people that can win very consistently at the game, indicating that it's not luck, but skill.
 
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