DOA5U Homework Time! Footsies and Spacing 101

[iHajinShinobi]

This thread explains what footsies and spacing are and exactly why they are such strong fundamentals. They are fundamentals a lot of DOA players are lacking. A lot of players online lack it, even frown on it and deem it garbage simply because they refuse to admit they are being outplayed. And cannot utilize it well themselves. Even some tournament level players lack good footsies and spacing. And that's due to the fact it is always an overlooked skill set for everything else.

Most here believe they have a solid understanding about footsies and spacing and think they are a natural at it. When most infact, actually do not. The fact of the matter is that footsies is not an easy to come by strategy, rather it is a complex one.

A good footsies fundamental comes from in-game experience. To control the neutral space between you and your opponent to your advantage. Positioning and conditioning your opponent to commit, making yourself look seemingly vulnerable and punishing them for overextending within your strike/throw range. There are a few different ways to incorporate footsies into your play and using it well in actual play.

This article here will explain numerous concepts of footsies and even has visual examples of each concept from various Street Fighter tournament level matches; http://sonichurricane.com/?page_id=1702

Before you say anything, no, this article does not only pertain to the Street Fighter series. It is geared towards all fighting games. Fundamentals are a strong skill set no matter what fighting game you are playing.

Some will say you don't need footsies to be pretty good. In my honest opinion, you will need such a set of skills if you are really trying to improve your play. Fighting a player that has a strong set of footsies can be very difficult to fight. And simply running in and going YOLO isn't always going to hit someone that will anticipate the obvious.

This is a very recent video by a very well-known SSF4 Abel player, Juicebox (credit @StrikerSashi for the link) explaining footsies, whiff punishment, and spacing. Very informative and in-depth;

Ignoring skills that could potentially further your play level and development will only hurt your play and mentality. That is the truth. In order to become a stronger player, you need to obtain skills that can help further your player development.

Spacing however, is a different concept from footsies. Not only are you positioning and conditioning your opponent, but you are also controlling the amount of space they are able to move around at. You are limiting their movement and movement area with your own movement and move set in order to control space.

Let me give you an example; I am playing my main, Ayane. I am at a distance away from you. I will then position myself at a certain range and use her 3H+K. One of a few things will happen here depending on the range I've decided to use this;

- It'll hit confirm, and I will follow up on the bound for damage.
- It'll whiff, but barely out of it's hittable range.
- You'll block it, I'll be at -3 disadvantage, while I move away and you cannot punish me.

Let me explain what's happening here--I am using Ayane's 3H+K with one purpose in mind. To control the amount of space it'll travel, all the while it tracks and has a large hitbox. At the sametime, when I toss out 3H+K at correct ranges, I am doing 3 things at once.

1) If 3H+K hits you, I get damage that can score me up to 42-68 midscreen on normal hit WITHOUT threshold. On counter hit, I am going to do 52-86 damage midscreen WITHOUT threshold. The hit confirm also allows me to push you closer to environmental hazards, or into one, which is just netting me more damage. Easily turning that 68 and 86 into 78 and 96 on just a normal wall splat. This is WITHOUT electric and explosive walls. I am doing this WITHOUT a stun or threshold mix up, and at mid range.

2) My 3H+K whiffs a little bit. You would think it's a bad thing but it really isn't. Infact, it only favors me more because I am just making you respond how I want. It is baiting you to move and attempt to hit me, allowing me to counter hit you because you're going to be hasty. I can also hold your strike if I know something in particular is coming.

3) You block my 3H+K. This is also in my favor because I can just do BT8P to back away and even block/hold everything in strike range. While also conditioning you to do something else and I capitalize on it.

Ayane's 3H+K controls space while also repping all the benefits (Seriously pick your poison lol). And smart players will not allow such a strong tool to be punished easily, when there are many other tools in Ayane's arsenal to keep opponents in check and wary of 3H+K as it is. The entire purpose is for me to control the space and limit your movement, while also making you move the way I want you to. But 3H+K will also give those three benefits.

You are also exhausting a lot of your opponent's options by simply moving away from them and forcing them to commit. This can turn the match in your favor, ESPECIALLY if you have a very solid defense (you are able to block, counter hit, fuzzy guard, crouch lows, and punish correctly, on reaction). When you force your opponent to overextend a lot, you are going to win the match, period.

Now in DOA, this is always and I mean ALWAYS crucial because of how influential the environment is in DOA. Stages are hardly the same and you must have a strategy for each one. A smaller stage will not eliminate a player's spacing capability at all. Utilizing whatever amount of space you have available is what will make your spacing formidable, no matter the size of the stage.

You will dish out additional damage for knocking your opponent into the environment. Whether it is a generic wall, an electric wall, electric floor, explosive wall, breakable object, breakable wall or floor, a cliffhanger, or some other form of dangerzone. It is always very rewarding and it is why you should pay close attention to where you and your opponent stand.

This will also help you decide on what kind of juggle to use in order to get the most out of an environmental hazard. Because that is actually very important. Whether you're planning to knock someone near the wall or ledge. Or knock them into a wall (or other form of dangerzone) or off the ledge. Your plan of attack should cater to the opportunity without it looking so obvious.

This is why I hardly ever prefer to do a Critical Burst when I'm playing Ayane (or Momiji) so early in a round or match (or at all). Sure, it'll net me good damage, but that's all it's really going to get me. I would rather score my good damage AND good positioning on the play field at the same time. Because it pieces things together in my favor, and majority of time I am already winning that round or match at that point if I'm playing it right (unless I'm being stupid about something, which is not always likely to happen).

You could ask "Why wouldn't I just do max damage and get positioning?" I do not need to take additional risks to do max damage, and doing max damage all the time is a linear way of getting damage.

I could get a very solid 70-90+ damage from Ayane and Momiji's stun > launch mix ups on a regular basis through various counter hits, with and without max damage. I am normally thinking about how I can get my opponent close to environmental hazards for bigger damage. And how I can position them to stay there. I will usually prefer my character's amazing wall/corner carry over generic threshold mix up, unless I want to further condition my opponents to hold something else so I can throw them instead. Or vortex you to death (yes, Helena is not the only character with a good vortex, even though Helena's vortex is friggin' amazing).

The following quotes are only two of many excerpts I've read and studied about spacing.

The first is from Shoryuken.com, the second is from Xdest himself, from his old and nowhere to be found, Book of Destruction.

Read these articles, study them, and learn to implement what you practice. Once your understanding of footsies and spacing are solid, you will get good results in your play.


SRK - Controlling Space

A big part of controlling the match is controlling not just the opponent, but the space around them as well. Really seeing how moves can control a space is pretty rare- most people just steal tactics theyve seen someplace else (dont get me wrong- learning ("stealing") is fine, but can only happen after someone elses innovation. Innovating is best). They can understand that they work, and see it in practice, but lack the vision to have seen it for themselves. This is because most players look at the game and its moves in very concrete terms. They evaluate moves in terms of things like "priority", speed, damage, comboability, etc. These things are important, and while top players may often speak that language, they understand it all at a deeper level. Usually, they have an almost intuitive feel for the more abstract characteristics of moves- way that they can control a space, closing down options for the opponent, and forcing them into certain responses.

You want to understand your moves not as some distinct kind of event, but as an extension of your overall on-screen presence. Its basically a different way of thinking about familiar moves. This may sound stupid, but it can have serious and powerful effects on your game. Thinking like this is easy enough in the case of most normal moves- theyre you sticking out parts of your own body. The challenge is to think in the same kind of integrated way about special moves as well.

A good example is Ryus fierce FB (this example applies (to varying degrees) to a lot of games- HF, Super, ST, A2, 3s (ex FBs only), etc.). Its a fireball- obviously nothing new- and the fierce version just travels a little faster than the other options. So what? If you think about it in the historical role of FB as a range weapon, then maybe theres not much to say. But try thinking of it instead as a poking move, much like a low forward (or whatever poke you happen to like). If you only do it when the opponent is at a certain range, it really does work like that- comes out so fast that its effectively impossible to react to, much less counter. Just like a low forward- only this one does more damage, more dizzy, and has a slightly longer range. A lot of people have trouble with this just because of the stupid distinction that a fireball is a "special" move, not a normal (though this fake distinction is being dispelled by the advent of things like the various 1-button fireballs: Cyclops fierce pulse, Megamans FB, etc.). Get over it. When youre able to start seeing the fierce FB as a poke, you develop a powerful new technique that (as proven by its continuing dominance as a tournament tactic) most people have simply overlooked.

One of the easiest ways to spot this kind of insight has always been to watch how people use their jabs and shorts. Experts virtually always make more and better use of these moves. Of course they have a similarly complete understanding of the rest of the moves- their use of jabs and shorts just stands out by contrast, as theyre most commonly overlooked. Everyone notices when some character gets a great low roundhouse, but the value and particular uses of a jab is often lost on the majority.

Take Dr. Doom from MVC2 as an example. While hes got a lot of great moves, most dont really see his jabs as anything special. Indeed, in the game at large, there are a lot of better jabs (like Dhalsims, for instance). An expert will notice a few things, however. That gimpy finger actually has incredible range, comes out instantly, and leads the rest of his body by a mile. It gets its hit sprites way out in front of any of the vulnerable remainder. Great lead for dashing in. If it hits, combo into launcher. Is this a game-breaking tactic? Hardly. Its a little thing, but good evidence of a larger overall ability to find and intuitively incorporate non-obvious uses of moves into a coherent pattern of attack. It works to open up opportunities that werent there before.

Understanding the real details of how all your moves work is also the prerequisite for a more widely-acknowledged hallmark of the pros: playing "footsie". In its pure form, this is really nothing more than a challenge to see who understands which move best controls which range. The game is won when someone sticks out something just slightly non-optimal for that particular situation, and bang, they get swept. This can really be beautiful when done well.

So. You want to really understand the mechanics of all your moves for maximum effectiveness, and to find novel ways to use those moves. Great. However, the trickiest bit is yet to come. The most difficult part of fully appreciating your moves is seeing their abstract ability to control the game space- seeing how they affect the geometry of the match.

Controlling space like this really is just about geometry. Even the metaphors we use for traps are vaguely geometrical (being "put in a box" or being "locked down", etc.). The historical (and continued) general superiority of fireball characters is also a testament to the value of controlling space. They obviously tend to be better at that, since they can fire off little things that do it for them, leaving them free to do something else (like DP your silly butt out of the air, etc.). The best way to help establish this is probably with examples:

Effectively controlling space is what makes Dooms air photon charge in MVC2 so good. The damage is weak, and it gets completely eaten by beams, but it controls a huge amount of space. The number and angle of the individual bursts is such that he can occupy a large percentage of the screen below. You cant maneuver in there- its filled up with Doom-stuff (this is so common in MVC2 that its led to the joking observation that the rule of thumb for telling whether a characters any good is to see how well they can fill up the screen with crap. More crap = better character). Youre not going to win a lot of fights on the damage from photon charges alone, but they do succeed at things like charging meter while also closing down a lot of your opponents otherwise open attack vectors (which also causes frustration, the ill effects of which Ive discussed elsewhere).

Dooms jump fierce is also primarily effective as a means of controlling space- its not a great move for actually hitting people on its own. Its only even barely capable of hitting people in very particular spaces. What it can do well is to control a hotly contested bit of space- that through which you must pass if youre planning on jumping, superjumping, or even just walking forward. Thats valuable. Very valuable, even if the move is otherwise fairly weak. Its features like these in combination that contribute to Dooms greatness in the game overall- in addition to an unrelatedly great assist, when hes on-screen, Doom is great at controlling space- like the Dhalsim of the SF series (though Dhalsim himself is still pretty good at space control in MVC2).

The threat of Cables AHVB allows him to similarly control a huge chunk of space- virtually everything in front of him, as well as a bit above and below. Effectively attacking Cable means understanding and effectively skirting the contours of his biggest threat- finding a way to put (and keep) yourself in the spaces where you can render the AHVB irrelevant (most notably far above, below, or behind him). This is way Cable v Cable fights tend to be so stupid- neither can effectively deal with the threat of the counter-AHVB posed by the other when at the same height. As a result, they spend their time trying to stay on top of one another to drop ineffective-but-safe time bombs. Stupid.

This same type of overwhelming spatial control is also behind why Akuma was so completely ridiculous in SSF2T. Yes, he had a lot of little extras with juggling, instant recovery from dizziness, etc., but it was the air fireball that made him a monster. It wasnt just the fact that he could perform it with virtually zero recovery (since you automatically recovered once you reached the ground)- this remained constant throughout later versions where Akuma was far less powerful. No- what made the ST air fireball such a killer was the angle of the thing. Its all about geometry, baby.

In almost all situations, the move could be performed safely, and it controlled a huge percentage of the screen. It shut down a huge number of the opponents counter-attacking options. Due to the angle, even moves which had been explicitly developed to dodge standard fireballs couldnt get safely around it. To tone it down in later versions, all they had to change was that angle. Everything else about it remained basically the same, but by making the angle of the fireball more vertical, the percentage of screen that it could effectively control was dramatically reduced (though its still significant- the air FB remains a great advantage in many cases, and still because of its angle- just not as excessive as it used to be).

One of the greatest examples of the value of space control comes from David Sirlins notorious A2 Rose. Mostly he just does a ton of low strongs. Thats annoying for all kinds of reasons, but whats worse (and relevant to our concern here) is that, when hes got the right range, he doesnt even want the strong to connect. Hes using it to occupy the space in front of you, and is quite content to just repeatedly whiff. If he was making you actually block it, youd be pushed out of range after 2 of them, at most. Thats no good- it would risk letting them slip beyond Roses ideal range. Instead, he likes to let you languish right on the verge of having to block, inviting you to stick something into the space hes controlling with the high-priority outer frames of his low strong punch. When you do (and they all do), he gets to hit you, maybe do a little combo, and then put himself right back into position to continue just dominating the space immediately surrounding you. So annoying.


This list could go on and on - the point here is that behind the pretty graphics, what youve basically got going on is geometry. Particular characters use their moves to control certain areas in game space- the challenge at the highest level is to develop an intuitive feel for these mechanisms. A player with this sense can feel his characters spatial control gaps and do his best to fill them with the moves available, while also consistently positioning himself in the spots where his opponent is least able to effectively attack.

Different types of Turtles/Spacing

Spacing Technique
Spacing Technique will dictate what style of spacing you use overall. Where do you stay on the
playing field?

Turtling

Turtling the main defensive spacing style. A turtle by definition is one that will take it slow, and stay
in their shell until it is time to attack. Turtling is the art of forcing the opponent to do exactly what
you want them to do, with defense. If you can do this correctly, you reap the benefits. You execute
incorrectly, and you're the one getting punished. First, you need to figure out exactly how you want
to play your position on the playing field. There are several different ways to play the turtling card,
here's a few of the styles that you can abide by. To turtle, is to work off of the opponent's mistakes.

The Aggressive Turtle

The aggressive turtle is the one that will always go back and forth to force the opponent. They are
still moving in quite the defensive matter, but if they opponent does something wrong, this turtle
with bite back 24/7. This turtle is defense in a completely other manner, but they always know the
right time. An aggressive turtle will sometimes by mistaken for a rushdown player, but don't be
fooled. Aggressive turtles are doing it with defensive intent, to make sure you do something wrong,
so they can bite you right back in the ass.

The Passive Turtle

The passive turtle does not care about going back and forth, they just want to defend. This means
backing up or waiting as much as possible. Anything to exhaust the opponent's options. A passive
player will always try to figure out how to get away from you, then exhaust your options and go in
for the kill. Along the way they're intercepting any hot headed player's moves, and whiff punishing
all moves that hit the air, and of course, throw punishing unsafe moves on block. Don't get me
wrong, the passive turtle will move forward, but they're constantly thinking about how to get away
and exhaust the opponent, and maybe run the timer along the way. This kind of person doesn't seem
to be that dangerous at first, but they overwhelm with defense.

The Turtle's Shell

This turtle will space and wait. They don't care, they're confident in their abilities, so they'll wait for
the opponent to do something wrong without moving an inch. Just blocking and reacting. This card
cannot be played by anyone. It's pretty much playing all your cards on your defensive skill. There is
no more offense, just pure turtling, working off your opponent to get damage. This kind of turtle
will sometimes be dangerous depending on the player's skill with the art of defense. If their reaction
is quite good, and their defense is quite good, you might actually have your work cut out for you.

Character Importance

Not all characters turtle well. Some characters were made to space. Some were made to pressure.
Characters were all made with specific purposes in mind, even if you stray away from the purpose.
With the character you chose, you need to make this decision for yourself. Does your character have
good whiff punishers? Good defensive intercepts? Good special movement spacing technique? If
they don't - they may be there for another purpose.

 

[UpSideDownGRUNT]

This is very good stuff, and crucial for all Ein and Ayane players since they're the big turtlers/spacers in this game.

Reading the turtling section, I think I mostly fit with the aggressive turtle style, I'm constantly switching from backing away and moving towards my opponent with Ein(and my terrible Ayane if I'm insane enough to use her). Although I could use some work on the actual punishing haha.

 

[JKT]

A very good read ^_^! Thanks for the detailed insight into footsies and spacing!

I have trouble with players who just space themselves away from me all the time. I feel like I have to come to them because the match isn't going anywhere. I guess Xdest calls this type of player a "passive turtle"? I'm still a bit unsure of how to tackle these types of players though :\ .

 

[jjinkou2]

very good topic

isn't this link more accurate (it gives the summary of the footsie book) ?
http://sonichurricane.com/?page_id=1702

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Thanks, I thought I linked that, not chapter 2 lol.

 

[Rikuto]

Good topic for the Ayane forums though it really applies more broadly.

FYI, one of the biggest issues the Sambo characters have is that they cannot control space at all. They have no reasonable priority or speed on any pokes to speak of and their ranged crushes tend to be highly unsafe. Whiff punishment is fairly lackluster as well, and situations where you can whiff punish anything are pretty rare thanks to their slow movement and massive hurtbox. Victory is based entirely on letting your opponent get in first, then out-guessing them in a defensive manner.

Because of this, and my own stubborn nature, my spacing game has always been terribly under developed. But if you can win with spacing on your character, you should. It's your first and strongest line of defense when its developed. Everything that comes after is leaving a lot more to chance. And not everyone can play like that.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

I only made the thread in here since there's one about spacing in the general discussion sub-forum.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Excellent read Hajin! Thanks for posting this (and referencing XDest too! ). Reading the SRK section reminds me why I love Ayane's 3H+K so much. I don't care if it gets blocked or even whiffs sometimes because it forces the opponent to stay where I want them to be.

I also do agree that this applies to pretty much all FG players.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

We can easily have this thread moved over to the DOA general discussion sub-forum if you guys want.

@Rikuto

 

[iHajinShinobi]

A very good read ^_^! Thanks for the detailed insight into footsies and spacing!

I have trouble with players who just space themselves away from me all the time. I feel like I have to come to them because the match isn't going anywhere. I guess Xdest calls this type of player a "passive turtle"? I'm still a bit unsure of how to tackle these types of players though :\ .

A good way to deal with it (and test just how well someone's spacing and defense actually is) is to move forward inch by inch while ensuring you can block as well. This will allow you to see a couple of things;

- Is the turtle actually paying any attention to his footing as he backs away?
- Do they panic or are they actually patient?

For the first question; some players will back away without any sense of where they are backing away to. Unaware that they put their back to a wall/dangerzone. At this point, it's a good sign to move in and try making them commit. Because some players will commit to unsafe single strikes and strings. Or whiff something moderate or big, allowing you an opportunity to whiff punish them.

For the second question; Some players, even if they are turtling, they eventually make a mistake themselves due to being so reckless/careless, or panicking when you're near them. Some are actually patient and will not move forward regardless, forcing you to move forward and commit. A way to see if a player is patient or careless is as I said before;

A good way to deal with it (and test just how well someone's spacing and defense actually is) is to move forward inch by inch while ensuring you can block as well

You could also try running in and blocking at certain ranges as well to test someone's reactions. Some will use their preferable keepout poke (which is smart). Some will overextend and leave themselves vulnerable to punishment.

However, when you fight a smart and defensive worthy opponent capable of keeping you out and is very alert. You have to be more patient than they are, when you're trying to get in strike range. You can definitely do the above to test this kind of player out, but you also have to be more careful about it because a better defensive player will have more ways to make you commit more than you would them.

 

[JKT]

@iHajinShinobi I really appreciate the time you put into replying to my worries. It seems that I'm at a disadvantage for being impatient during a fight lol. I'll definitely practice what you say during my next DOA session ^_^. Thanks a lot!

 

[StrikerSashi]

Juicebox made a great video on footsies a month ago. Even though it's for 2D, it explains the fundamental idea behind trying to hit your opponent.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Adding the video to the OP.

 

[BlankOctober]

This is very insightful and something that I stress to my friends that play. It's one thing to want to do combos and be "cheap", but it's another thing to have strong fundamentals as well as being "cheap". 'tis a dangerous combination.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

I've updated the OP a bit, adding in the video Striker mentioned. As well as giving my own example of how I can control spacing with Ayane's 3H+K.

 

[Female Tengu]

Great content, Hajin (and everyone who worked on it)!

 

[Hold_Junkie93]

I was going to be the oddball saying, it's only complex because we're talking about a 3D fighter here. I know wachu mean. Mila's 6P+K gets me a sneaky stun. 4K backs people off trying to get up in my face. I know I got a lot to learn about it, but the concept isn't too hard understand.

 

[CoDe__X__ReD]

These is awesome! These tips will help me out a lot.

 

[Ken_Jammin]

Great read, alot of characters like hyabusa and lisa rely on their strong mid range game to keep themselves competitive, they need their opponent to be playing it safe from mid range so that they can move in and throw when their opponent starts playing too defensively. Skilled players will sometimes forgo some damage to keep their positioning while at the same time looking to bait out holds. Up close a lot of the cast just can't compete with the faster striking characters that have 9 frame hi's and 11 frame mids.

I'd love to see a video or another write up that explains some of the techniques universal to 90% of the cast. Things like:

1. 3K with almost any character is a mid range kick that stuns on counter hit.
2. 4P similar to 3k but obviously a shorter range mid punch, for alot of characters this is also a good mixup choice if your looking for mid-p stuns.
3. 2H+K 80% of characters have a low sweep, great for picking up some extra damage, some characters are left with a significant frame disadvantage so be careful with these.

 

[tokiopewpew]

Passive turtle here
It's true, many players online lack of it, although it's also harder to have proper movement there.