Balance Honoka 1.04 Balance Changes Discussion

KING JAIMY

Well-Known Member
Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Main Character
Rig
Gamertag
KING JAIMY
3DS Friend Code
5086-3025-4977
PSN ID
King_Jaimy
Steam
KING JAIMY
#1
It seems like Honoka is the character who got buffed the most in the patch upcoming Tuesday. These are her changes:

Changed to be able to use her strengths better while right next to an opponent or while in Hissatsu-no-Kamae.

P: Changed advantage on normal hit and guard from -2 frames to -1 frames.

PP4P: Changed hit reaction on Counter or higher from launch to uppercut stun (Cr(29 → 19)).

6P: Changed overall frames from 11(3)21 to 11(2)22, and extended reach about 20cm.

66P: Adjusted the input detection of the command.

33P: Heightened the launch on Counter hit or higher.

K: Changed damage from 22 to 25.

6K: Change damage from 20 to 21, and extended reach about 5cm.

4K2: Fixed issue which removed crouching status starting from frame 11.

66P+K: Changed advantage on guard from -27 frames to -8 frames.

236P+K: Fixed an issue which allowed a followup to Ducking even with back turned after going over an opponent.

Dokuritsu-Ho H+K: Changed advantage on guard from -21 frames to -11 frames.

Dragon Stance P: Changed advantage on guard from -18 frames to -3 frames.

Hissatsu-no-Kamae P: Changed advantage on guard from -4 frames to GB(-1).

Hissatsu-no-Kamae P (max charge): Changed advantage on guard from -4 frames to GB(4).

Hissatsu-no-Kamae K: Changed damage from 28 to 32, wall knock-back distance from 1m to none, heightened launch and juggle. Also changed the launch animation of the opponent on Counter hit or higher.

Back-turned PP: Changed damage from 16 to 18.

Back-turned 2P: Fixed a bug which would cause a guarding opponent to use the standing guard animation.

Back-turned K: Changed wall knock-back distance from 2.5m to 1m.

6T: Changed damage from 28 to 29.

Back-turned 6T: Shortened the disadvantage by 25 frames when the opponent tech rolls.

33T on wall: Stage gimmicks are now triggered on the final part of the attack.

T while running: Shortened the disadvantage by 3 frames when the opponent tech rolls.

Hissatsu-no-Kamae T: Changed damage from 25+50 to 25+52.

Hissatsu-no-Kamae 2T: Changed damage from 72 to 81. Adjusted mouth movement.

Taunts: Adjusted mouth movement.

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Personally I'm very happy with her changes. Here are my thoughts:

First off, 6P and 6K having more reach is really good since those are her main stun starters.

Her damage got buffed significantly too. Her regular strikes (K and 6K), her BT strikes (BT PP), her throws (6T, Hissatsu T8T and Hissatsu 2T) and her Hissatsu K all got a damage buff.

Speaking of her Hissatsu stance, her Hissatsu P got buffed on block as well. It is now a guard break regardless whether it's charged or not (-1 no charge, +4 full charge). This is a rightful change in my opinion.

Next to that, she is made a safer character overall. Her very unsafe moves are now just unsafe (66P+K -27 --> -8 and Hissatsu H+K -21 --> -11). Her DS P is now only -3 on block and her jab is now only -1 on block (previously -2 on block) which is an important change.

BT K having less knockback is a huge buff since that kick is very important in juggles. Also Hissatsu K doesn't wall splat anymore which I think is a buff.

33P having a higher launch height is nice. I wonder if it has a higher re-launch height in juggles as well. Anyway, buffs are always welcome.

The shortened disadvantage on BT 6T and Running T are really good too meaning that these throws are now safe to use against tech-rolling opponents.

Last but not least, her PP4P isn't useless anymore because it stuns instead of giving a launch. I really think this will improve her BT game since it gives her another option to get back-turned!

All in all I think Honoka deserved these buffs. I'm really curious to test out her new PP4P and her refined Hissatsu stance. What do you think of 1.04 Honoka? What is your favorite buff? Did she deserve all those buffs? And what do you think of her buffs overall? Please share your thoughts about Honoka's changes below. :honoka:
 

KING JAIMY

Well-Known Member
Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Main Character
Rig
Gamertag
KING JAIMY
3DS Friend Code
5086-3025-4977
PSN ID
King_Jaimy
Steam
KING JAIMY
#5
Hissatsu-no-Kamae K: Changed damage from 28 to 32, wall knock-back distance from 1m to none, heightened launch and juggle. Also changed the launch animation of the opponent on Counter hit or higher.
I have a feeling that the removal of Hissatsu K as a wall splat will allow it to be used as a wall juggle. For example 4K2 (W!) > Ducking PP > Hissatsu K > ... or 8P > Heichu P+K (W!) > Hissatsu K > ...

Also Hissatsu K launching higher is interesting. I wonder if other maximum damage juggles will be possible due to the increased launch height.
 
#6
In before everyone starts using Honoka again, because she's buffed significantly...

I'll just stick to Ein and his low tier-ness.

Also, this is going to make her alot more fearce to fight now, I'm actually sorta dreading it lol a few of here unsafe moves got buffed to completely safe.
 

DestructionBomb

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Bronx, NY
Main Character
Pai Chan
#10
Honoka didnt need all of these buffs but she really needed the BT K one.That move would gravitate towards the wall
Honoka indeed didn't need them but they helped her getting a better character. Perhaps she can be a mid tier character now.
To be truthful, she only needed range buffs. That's what kills her. A below average whiff punishing attack can blow her up and can cause her to have issues as well as momentum drop. The range buff was needed because you could be in a scenario or closed stance to where you want to connect like 6P for example but couldn't reach because the small pushback from the opponent staggering out or due to the stance being wrong. The range buff on that particular move, might be needed because now you do not have to worry about staggering, stance placement or just a further away from the stun mechanic.

Damage buffs weren't needed but some feel that the damage increase were just Team NINJA being generous and a sign that people should use Honoka more for exposure of these characters. I'd bet that if it was any other fighting game companies working on that, they would of only increased range and that's it.

In most common cases: The stance was wrong, but that was entirely Team NINJA's fault for making the move having smaller distance parameters to begin with. Even if the stance was wrong, a move like that could still whiff even if it's not close either. The best buffs in this entire thing is the range for sure.
 
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iHajinShinobi

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
California
Main Character
Ayane
#11
Another thing Honoka actually needs is to inherent the safer 66P that Helena currently has. That would really let this character poke AND counter poke more reliably during footsies/spacing from a faster move. And not have to worry about the possibility of being thrown for trying to simply poke correctly.

Helena's current 66P knocks the opponent down on counter hit, giving her offensive momentum and its also safe at -5 (-3 at tip range). This is the 66P that Honoka needs.

Honoka's current 66P is Helena's 66P from DOA5U, where it is just a stun for +22 on counter hit. -9 on block (-7 at tip range). Even though spacing it correctly to be at -7 is a little decent, you always have to run the risk with being neutral thrown. Which is not a great situation for trying your damndest to poke with it (because it is a good move to poke with, but these are the drawbacks to it. And this character already has limited options at range as it is).

Honoka's best pokes at range are literally just 3H+K, 4K, 6PP, 66P, 6K2K (for the low), and 46P. That's it. Once the patch hits, 6K can work as a better footsie poke due to more range, but that's not necessarily going to solve the problem either.

Like I've said before, her walk speed is what you HAVE to utilize to the fullest to get the best out of her tiny arsenal. But 66P the only move above that actually compliments her movement in almost the perfect spacing. It would get her in and she's not close, with the opponent having to try to get away from her before she tears that ass up. Sadly, 66P won't really give her this situation reliably.

Its a decent move that honestly needs to be better for this character.
 
#16
I visit freestepdodge daily and I'm a bit surprised the change log hasn't hit the front page, I learned about it now that eventhubs posted about it, it's a bit weird they did it first.
 
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