Is Christie Too Unsafe?

[Madian]

I think we Christie players need to start discussing this possibility while the game is still being patched. If it is the case that Christie really is too unsafe then we should determine some sane and reasonable changes and possibly contact Team Ninja to let them know how we feel. Here are some things to consider:

• All of Christe's lows are disadvantaged on hit as well as block. Some are even launcher punishable.
• All of Christie's kicks are unsafe on block except for her low kick off of her stance.
• The throw in 2+K+H, P+H is not free after the first hit and doesn't have a mix up option.
• 6PP is -12 on hit. Even if you cancel into her stance you can be punished before you have a chance to continue pressure.
• The second hit of 2PPP will whiff in most situations if the opponent is not in critical stun.

Discuss...

 

[Scornwell]

You bring up some valid points.

All of Christie's kicks are unsafe on block except for her low kick off of her stance.

... which is also unsafe on block, clocking in at -15. I know, it's a shame that she has no safe kicks. I wouldn't have minded seeing a GB kick in there at least... Every time Christie kicks and is blocked, its like a green light for punishment.

The throw in 2+K+H, P+H is not free after the first hit and doesn't have a mix up option.

Instead, it's a guessing game with no guessing on your opponent's part: "crouch guard and punish." The especially goofy thing is that the Shutai looks like a low throw, so Christie casually slaps her opponent on the rear before he/she proceeds to punish the -49 she now finds herself in. Ooops. Even if you're opponent guessed wrongly and does a low hold, you will still be punished at -17. I honestly think that making the Shutai a low throw would solve this.

6PP is -12 on hit. Even if you cancel into her stance you can be punished before you have a chance to continue pressure.

Even worse: -14 on hit. Not sure how I feel on this one, because if you're opponent low throws thinking that you'll Jakeiho, he'll take high counter damage and a stun from the next P in the string. Could you please elaborate on this one?

The second hit of 2PPP will whiff in most situations if the opponent is not in critical stun.

I believe you mean if the first P is a counter hit? I've noticed that, too, and I think that this has to be a bug. Especially since if your opponent high counters out of the counter hit stun, he'll catch the attack that would have whiffed.

 

[FakeSypha]

Inb4 Allan Paris shows up and says "don't change the text color". Just.. don't change it, please.

People with the Dark style won't see anything you wrote OP.

Ontopic: Indeed, she is quite unsafe. So she was in DOA4, so I'm kinda used to that. I feel like it's my very own fault when I getting punished for doing unsafe attacks. I'm not saying I'm ok with all this, but you can always work around her unsafeness. Delaying strings could work a couple of times if the opponent is expecting to throw punish you.

It's kinda ridiculous when you compare her up to someone like Rig, who is safe on block, hit, whiff (?)... no matter what the guy does, he's always on frame advantage.

 

[Madian]

You bring up some valid points.
... which is also unsafe on block, clocking in at -15. I know, it's a shame that she has no safe kicks. I wouldn't have minded seeing a GB kick in there at least... Every time Christie kicks and is blocked, its like a green light for punishment.

-15 yes but the push back prevents most moves under 15 frames from properly punishing. It does however end your pressure game which is bad for Christie but at least gives you a safe way to put distance between you and your opponent.

Instead, it's a guessing game with no guessing on your opponent's part: "crouch guard and punish." The especially goofy thing is that the Shutai looks like a low throw, so Christie casually slaps her opponent on the rear before he/she proceeds to punish the -49 she now finds herself in. Ooops. Even if you're opponent guessed wrongly and does a low hold, you will still be punished at -17. I honestly think that making the Shutai a low throw would solve this.

I would be totally fine with them beefing up the low punch and making the throw a low throw so that it was a proper mix up.

Even worse: -14 on hit. Not sure how I feel on this one, because if you're opponent low throws thinking that you'll Jakeiho, he'll take high counter damage and a stun from the next P in the string. Could you please elaborate on this one?

I figured I was off by a few frames but yeah it's ridiculous. There is room for a mix up here but it's a two way street. The main thing is the stance change in it is pretty useless imo

 

[Madian]

Inb4 Allan Paris shows up and says "don't change the text color". Just.. don't change it, please.

People with the Dark style won't see anything you wrote OP.

Ontopic: Indeed, she is quite unsafe. So she was in DOA4, so I'm kinda used to that. I feel like it's my very own fault when I getting punished for doing unsafe attacks. I'm not saying I'm ok with all this, but you can always work around her unsafeness. Delaying strings could work a couple of times if the opponent is expecting to throw punish you.

It's kinda ridiculous when you compare her up to someone like Rig, who is safe on block, hit, whiff (?)... no matter what the guy does, he's always on frame advantage.

Is it still different colors? It's edited on my window.

Everyone was pretty unsafe in DoA4 but that game is worlds apart from DoA5. It feels like characters such as Hitomi, Helena and Christie didn't get properly adjusted for how much safer DoA5 is.

 

[Scornwell]

Everyone was pretty unsafe in DoA4 but that game is worlds apart from DoA5. It feels like characters such as Hitomi, Helena and Christie didn't get properly adjusted for how much safer DoA5 is.

And Alpha-152, but who cares amirite?
Anyhow, I feel as if Christie, Helena, etc. are as unsafe in this game as contrast to the new characters being as safe as they are. However, it's a little bit off the deep end when it comes to matching up with DOA5's new frame data. Although Christie isn't as bad off as others, she could still use the finest bit of tuning. Fix the spacing issue with 2pp. Do something with the shutai throw mixup. A couple of kicks could probably be safer on hit, I just can't name them at the moment
Every once in awhile, Christie's fully charged P at the end of a Dokuja combo won't launch Christie into the jump animation. Instead, her fist comes out the other side of her opponents torso. While this is both funny and cool, I don't think it's intentional or safe. This should also be fixed. Notice anything else?

 

[Doug Nguyen]

I main as Kasumi and Helena so im a bit bias since my characters are the least safe of all. If i were you, since christie has long strings of punches. Just delay them a lot and eventually you will catch them off guard. Or spam her quick low hits until they try to counter then low grab.

 

[Madian]

I main as Kasumi and Helena so im a bit bias since my characters are the least safe of all. If i were you, since christie has long strings of punches. Just delay them a lot and eventually you will catch them off guard. Or spam her quick low hits until they try to counter then low grab.

Actually I don't think Kasumi is nearly as bad as Helena, Christie and Hitomi. She has 6P,K and PP6P,K. Both of which end with enough push back that high jabs and throws are out of range to punish it. In addition, she has a lot of moves that are -6 or -7 and as I've mentioned in my thread on option selects you can buffer a throw escape into a sidestep or another attack to make it safer.

That aside I'm not saying Christie needs special treatment. I just think we should bring her and the rest of the cast. I'm not asking for a lot, just a safe mid and a fix for her mid throw/low punch like Scornwell pointed out.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

Actually I don't think Kasumi is nearly as bad as Helena, Christie and Hitomi. She has 6P,K and PP6P,K. Both of which end with enough push back that high jabs and throws are out of range to punish it. In addition, she has a lot of moves that are -6 or -7 and as I've mentioned in my thread on option selects you can buffer a throw escape into a sidestep or another attack to make it safer.

That aside I'm not saying Christie needs special treatment. I just think we should bring her and the rest of the cast. I'm not asking for a lot, just a safe mid and a fix for her mid throw/low punch like Scornwell pointed out.

Just use Chrsities guard breaks. They put her at a good advantage.

 

[synkro]

What does "unsafe" mean? There is no explanation on the Wiki.

 

[DR2K]

What does "unsafe" mean? There is no explanation on the Wiki.

-7(or -6 for grapplers) frame disadvanatge. This is where you're throw punishable on block.

 

[Scornwell]

Christie may be technically safer than other characters, but a LOT of her strikes are "almost unsafe," causing her to either play defensive and loose pressure or fuzzy guard and risk being low thrown.

Just use Chrsities guard breaks. They put her at a good advantage.

All (3) of Christie's guards breaks are painfully obvious and easily sidesteppable. Whether of not Christie can work around her unsafe-ness is irrelevant.

 

[DR2K]

Christie may be technically safer than other characters, but a LOT of her strikes are leave her at disadvantage causing her to either play defensive and loose pressure or fuzzy guard and risk being low thrown.
All (3) of Christie's guards breaks are painfully obvious and easily sidesteppable. Whether of not Christie can work around her unsafe-ness is irrelevant.

Corrected.

Which is true for the majority of moves in DOA5.

 

[Scornwell]

Corrected.

Which is true for the majority of moves in DOA5.

Whoops, my bad
DR2K, you've been around for awhile. Has TN ever gave a solid reason why everything is so unsafe, especially in the case of some characters (helena & Christie) over others (RIG) ? I want to know the absolute reason behind this before I lobby arguments over what's balanced or not...

 

[Madian]

Whoops, my bad
DR2K, you've been around for awhile. Has TN ever gave a solid reason why everything is so unsafe, especially in the case of some characters (helena & Christie) over others (RIG) ? I want to know the absolute reason behind this before I lobby arguments over what's balanced or not...

if I may,

The reasoning that Shimbori gave in the streamed interview for why characters like Helena are unsafe is because they are very tricky characters and thus you have to balance on the notion that they can play mind games with you. That's at least how the translator worded it.

The problem was that the other example he gave was Brad who actually has a lot of safe options. It also doesn't compute when you consider the proper mind hosing that Ayane or Hayabusa can give someone and yet they have a fair number of frame traps.

 

[DR2K]

Whoops, my bad
DR2K, you've been around for awhile. Has TN ever gave a solid reason why everything is so unsafe, especially in the case of some characters (helena & Christie) over others (RIG) ? I want to know the absolute reason behind this before I lobby arguments over what's balanced or not...

Probably because of the stun system, you get a lot more frame advantage off of stuns.

 

[Chaos]

Whoops, my bad
DR2K, you've been around for awhile. Has TN ever gave a solid reason why everything is so unsafe, especially in the case of some characters (helena & Christie) over others (RIG) ? I want to know the absolute reason behind this before I lobby arguments over what's balanced or not...

No wonder why I kept getting thrown everytime the cpu blocks my attacks.

 

[Slayer DNA]

No,
I wouldn't say shes "too unsafe", I will however say "you play her too unsafe"..
(Christie has never been about "safeness" its always speed)
Shes fine.

 

[Madian]

No,
I wouldn't say shes "too unsafe", I will however say "you play her too unsafe"..
(Christie has never been about "safeness" its always speed)
Shes fine.

Maybe for DoA4 but this isn't DoA4. Playing Christie safe means never attacking outside of a single punch or a two sidestep attacks.

 

[Lafintica]

All about Christie is unsafe, even her clothings is unsafe, just kidding....don't get mad at me Christi'er.

Okay, my main is Christie, all I know about Christie's attacks, they are too predictable.
Her fight stance and hand posture is telling the opponent where will the next attack come from, she usually not included many faking like Kasumi or Ayane

Christie's stance is represent snake right, how do snake attack ? straight and fast, but too predictable.
But, why ppl still got bitten by snake ? Because of the timing... speed + great timing = unpredictable
How to do that ? Wait for the next characters balance/re-spec patch, lol

Take your time to finish the opponent, don't rush your combo, sometimes break the combo halfway and do that JAH stance to confuse your opponent. Don't use mid attacks too often, ppl tend to do mid for gambling and Christie's attack mainly goes for mid attack.
Always finish attack with critical burst every time given chances