KBD'ing with 22/88 sidestep active

Camel with 2 thumbs

Well-Known Member
I normally have my sidestep set to the 2/8 h+p+k input but i find the simple 22/88 more intuitive, so i've tried playing with the 22/88 sidestep recently and i find that when i kdb with this method of sidesteping i end up sidesteping in ALOT of situations where im trying to kbd. I was wondering if this happens to anyone else or is it just me, maybe im kdbing too fast or there's someway to kbd consistently while having the 22/88 sidestep active
 

Lulu

Well-Known Member
I can't repeatedly do any motion that requires hitting the diagonals so many times in quick succession without my thumb twitching with mild pain for too long.

I wonder if there's a way to remove KBD's.... I mean they maybe unintentional but not every character seems to have one... so it seems possible.
 

DestructionBomb

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
I wonder if there's a way to remove KBD's

Why?

Characters such as Rig, Akira, Mila, Rachel, Honoka, Sarah, Hitomi and a few others can go pretty heavy moving like that. Why limit others options?

I do find characters like Raidou, Bayman, and Bass are pretty slow that it's overall best to use the 7 move while enabling to block to avoid CH damage. There is literally no point in backdashing with Raidou, you are just asking for CH damage.
 
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Lulu

Well-Known Member
Characters such as Rig, Akira, Mila, Rachel, Honoka, Sarah, Hitomi and a few others can go pretty heavy moving like that. Why limit others options?

Then make that their walk speed. Or atleast their backward walk speed. Who said anything about limiting anyone's options ? I just want playing games not to hurt so much
 

crapoZK

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Then make that their walk speed. Or atleast their backward walk speed. Who said anything about limiting anyone's options ? I just want playing games not to hurt so much
Do you know how retarded Akira and Rig would be if their walk speed was as fast and gap opening as their KBDs?? That would break the game completely. Leave KBDs in the game, but if you can't do it then don't do it. It's not like it's most needed anyway but I love having optimum movement in any game.
 

Lulu

Well-Known Member
Do you know how retarded Akira and Rig would be if their walk speed was as fast and gap opening as their KBDs?? That would break the game completely. Leave KBDs in the game, but if you can't do it then don't do it. It's not like it's most needed anyway but I love having optimum movement in any game.

So what you're saying is their KBD's are broken ?
 

crapoZK

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
So what you're saying is their KBD's are broken ?
Noooooooo, their KBDs are just better than the rest, BUT. IF their walk speed was to be changed to the same distance and speed of their KBD..... By JUST holding 7 then 4.... THEN it would be stupidly broken. KBDs are balanced because they're hard(er) to do, so it rewards the skill of having to do it - especially for certain characters. Dumbing it down to walking speed would be a lightshow lmaoooo. Rig and Akira have kinda slow walk speeds compared to characters like Lisa and Jann Lee, so their backdashes make up for the overall lack of mobility.
 

Lulu

Well-Known Member
IF their walk speed was to be changed to the same distance and speed of their KBD..... By JUST holding 7 then 4....

If the speed is the problem then simply don't make them walk so fast.

But...
KBDs are balanced because they're hard(er) to do,
At first... but practice it until it becomes second nature and you would never have to use :4::4: again. This is why I said just make it the default walk speed. If its better then thats the one you should always be doing... which is essentially the only way to play Tekken, pretty much every single type of movement needs to be cancelled by something....

Dumbing it down to walking speed would be a lightshow lmaoooo.

You make it sound like it had any depth in the first place.

Rig and Akira have kinda slow walk speeds compared to characters like Lisa and Jann Lee, so their backdashes make up for the overall lack of mobility.

And thats the way it should be. Using an exploit to circumvent balanced decisions is broken regardless of how difficult it is... its also really annoying hence if you're gonna keep an exploit then you may aswel "Dumb it Down" so everybody can abuse it... thats fair right ?
 

Camel with 2 thumbs

Well-Known Member
Do you know how retarded Akira and Rig would be if their walk speed was as fast and gap opening as their KBDs?? That would break the game completely. Leave KBDs in the game, but if you can't do it then don't do it. It's not like it's most needed anyway but I love having optimum movement in any game.

Yeah I gotta agree with @Cr!msonWarrior , if a character like say honoka had backwards walking speed on par with her kbd speed, it'd look hilarious but it would be retarded as hell to play against. It'd turn doa into sk:estival versus where gaining a life lead and running away is super effective cause it's too easy to create distance. Keep that shit behind an execution barrier plz.
 

Lulu

Well-Known Member
Keep that shit behind an execution barrier plz.

If you keep it behind an Execution Barrier then you can still do it... well not you but someone with quick fingers could. They should keep it behind the "Get rid of this sh!t" barrier with all the other broken stuff like DoA4's Holds and Infinite Combos.... and Lag.
 

crapoZK

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
At first... but practice it until it becomes second nature and you would never have to use :4::4: again. This is why I said just make it the default walk speed. If its better then thats the one you should always be doing... which is essentially the only way to play Tekken, pretty much every single type of movement needs to be cancelled by something....
You do have to use :4::4: to initiate the KBD to be completely honest *kappa*
I don't walk that much in DOA unless I'm spacing at the start of rounds In DOA I'm wavedashing and KBD'ing to open and close the gaps on the stage. Neither do I walk in Tekken. I'd rather be granted a whiff to punish by executing a KBD than to walk out of strings. Tekken's walk speed has always been shit so that's why KBDs are the most useful. Not so much for DOA although KBD is stupidly easy in this game in comparison. Being able to do it doesn't make you a better player at all if that's the only thing you practice.

And thats the way it should be. Using an exploit to circumvent balanced decisions is broken regardless of how difficult it is... its also really annoying hence if you're gonna keep an exploit then you may aswel "Dumb it Down" so everybody can abuse it... thats fair right ?
Isn't doing a KBD a balanced decision, as in some situations it's better to use than straight up walking?? If I must use Tekken as an example, as I play Eddy, my character lacks the ability to sidestep but has the best backdash in the game. What should I do if I can't evade things the "normal" way? I KBD. And it's the only thing I can do as my character lacks in every field besides that movement-wise. If we were to "remove" the idea of cancelling extra movement from backdashes, nobody would be able to backdash into crouching, backdash into blocking, backdash into sidesteps, backdash into extra attacks. Trust me, getting rid of the KBD concept is a lot harder than it seems.
 

Lulu

Well-Known Member
Being able to do it doesn't make you a better player at all if that's the only thing you practice.

True.... but if the speed is as broken as you say it is then not being able to do it will prevent you from getting any better.

Trust me, getting rid of the KBD concept is a lot harder than it seems.

True... but thats no reason to leave it as is. as for Eddy I believe his Sidesteps are built into his Attacks. Like I said before...

Using an exploit to circumvent balanced decisions is broken regardless of how difficult it is..

Eddy was balanced a specific way and if they wanted Eddy to have the best of both worlds then they should simplify it and be done with it.
 

crapoZK

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
True... but thats no reason to leave it as is. as for Eddy I believe his Sidesteps are built into his Attacks. Like I said before...
Having a b1+2 that only steps right as the only viable sidestep attack he has is not good enough as an evasion tactic. He most definitely does not have sidesteps built into his attacks. His sidestep attacks don't even evade things like that xD. He was legit built to be unable to evade shit by stepping but by backdashing.

Eddy was balanced a specific way and if they wanted Eddy to have the best of both worlds then they should simplify it and be done with it.
They can simplify the KBD with just pressing :4::4::5::4::4: in the next Tekken. If they do that then I'd still like there to be strict timings with it. Because one thing Tekken will be without KBD is pure garbage.
P u r e G a r b a g e.


True.... but if the speed is as broken as you say it is then not being able to do it will prevent you from getting any better.
I never said KBD speeds were broken....... I said translating KBDs into walking speed WOULD be broken xD.
But what do you do when you can't do something, and you want to be able to do it??? Ya practice that shit.
 

Lulu

Well-Known Member
Having a b1+2 that only steps right as the only viable sidestep attack he has is not good enough as an evasion tactic. He most definitely does not have sidesteps built into his attacks. His sidestep attacks don't even evade things like that xD. He was legit built to be unable to evade shit by stepping but by backdashing.

Seems Fair.... I wouldn't know I gave up on Tekken 7 2 Weeks in...

They can simplify the KBD with just pressing :4::4::5::4::4: in the next Tekken. If they do that then I'd still like there to be strict timings with it. Because one thing Tekken will be without KBD is pure garbage.
P u r e G a r b a g e.

This makes no sense.

I never said KBD speeds were broken....... I said translating KBDs into walking speed WOULD be broken xD.

If the speed isn't Broken then simplify the input. You need to make up you're mind... if the movement is broken then slow it down... if not then leave it.... the actuall input is irrelevant.... if its so important to people then the developers should implement a system by which you can choose how you prefer to input your Backdashes... Mr. Uber Hardcore can make his a just frame and wow everybody with his Execution.... everyone else would make a simple :4::4: so they can spend more time actually playing the game. Everybody wins.

But what do you do when you can't do something, and you want to be able to do it??? Ya practice that shit.

Imagine if Yussein Bolt said that to everybody he beat at the olympics. Practice helps but once you peak then you peak... end of the road.... but thats not what bugs me... what bugs is unlike the 100m Sprint, Fighting Games aren't a competition on whos got the best physical execution and yet this aspect that only brings 10% of enjoyment but makes up 90% of of The genre. Seriously why does moving back and forth have to be such a hastle ?

I'm honestly surprised no developer has added an execution barrier built right into the menu... DP to start.... KBD to set the audio... etc. I feel like if Tekken did that then nobody would even question it... the argument would be : "Well this game is 90% execution so you're going to be doing those things anyway... might aswell get on with it right when you boot up the game."
 

crapoZK

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
If the speed isn't Broken then simplify the input. You need to make up you're mind... if the movement is broken then slow it down... if not then leave it.... the actual input is irrelevant.... if its so important to people then the developers should implement a system by which you can choose how you prefer to input your Backdashes... Mr. Uber Hardcore can make his a just frame and wow everybody with his Execution.... everyone else would make a simple :4::4: so they can spend more time actually playing the game. Everybody wins.
This is one thing that I could see coming into FGs at some point. Like how Guilty Gear and Arc Sys games has the simple combo stuff by spamming 1 button but the damage of the combos is crazily reduced compared to doing the regular execution stuff. To put this in for movement in 3D fighters could help players who want to get into the game without practicing the hard stuff. Though to balance it the "lazy" KBD (this is what I'll call it for this instance) will not be as quick to come out as the "regular" KBD. It would make sense to do it that way imo.
 

Lulu

Well-Known Member
This is one thing that I could see coming into FGs at some point. Like how Guilty Gear and Arc Sys games has the simple combo stuff by spamming 1 button but the damage of the combos is crazily reduced compared to doing the regular execution stuff.

Yeah I found this doesn't really work... if the damage gets reduced even though the moves are identical then whos going to bother with it ? I certainly wouldn't if I knew there were better combos I should be doing...

Killer Instinct's CAM (Combo Assisst Mechanic) works better... it essentially simplifies the combos but doesn't reduce to the damage.

After all when you perform a combo in most fighting games you aren't even playing a multiplayer game any more.... I think the whole reason they make the combos difficult is so atleast one of the players have something strenuous to do until the other player gets back control of their character again.

To put this in for movement in 3D fighters could help players who want to get into the game without practicing the hard stuff. Though to balance it the "lazy" KBD (this is what I'll call it for this instance) will not be as quick to come out as the "regular" KBD. It would make sense to do it that way imo.

Except it doesn't make sense... heres what makes sense.
If the speed isn't Broken then simplify the input. You need to make up you're mind... if the movement is broken then slow it down... if not then leave it.... t

Its that simple. They should set the speed to whatever works... if KBD speeds aren't broken then that should be the default speed.

Actually I would extend this to combos aswel... if damaging combos aren't overpowered because of they require higher execution then what difference does it make to the game's balance if they were one button combos ? Its not like the actual in game combo actually changes...
 
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