Balance Leon Bugs... Still here...

XZero264

FSD | Nichol
Premium Donor
This thread is way overdue...

and because I found a Desert Falcon bug (kudos to my brother for noticing)
.

If you can't catch it Desert Falcon deals:
NH: 78 damage, 83 wall half hit, 88 full wall hit.
CH: 97 damage, 102 wall half hit, 107 full wall hit.
HCH: 117 damage, 122 wall half hit, 127 full wall hit.
on normal walls and floors.

When in the Lab Stage:
NH: 93 damage, 88 wall half hit, 93 full wall hit.
CH: 112 damage, 107 wall half hit, 112 full wall hit.
HCH: 132 damage, 127 wall half hit, 132 full wall hit.
Lol wall half hit damage.

Something about Danger Zone damage on top of wall damage is not adding up. Full Wall hits on Lab walls result in the same damage as on NH (10 less damage than it should be at) and wall half hits are actually doing 5 LESS damage than an open space DF (also 10 less than it should be).
So the damage in the Lab Stage for DF is 10 points less than it should be getting against walls.



Now a bug I found a while ago but didn't really think much of, his Dervish Throw has odd HCH properties that are battling the DOA game logic.
In DOA5 the highest amount of damage a Hi Counter throw should be able to hit is 149 points without falling damage being taken into consideration. In the same stage (Lab) Leon's Hi Counter Dervish Throw will deal 148 damage. No big beal. On a wall half hit it will deal 149 damage and a full wall hit nets 154. Something doesn't add up right or the game can't figure out what to do and how to do it properly.
By normal DOA logic the HCH DT on a walled half hit should be 153 damage and full wall hit should be 158. I can understand that the game logic says throws can get up to 149 without falling damage but this one is in need of either a flat damage fix at 149 for the entire string or retains the "normal" damage of the extra 5 damage from a wall half hit and 10 full wall hit.


His Power Launcher Bug is still in but considerably more difficult to execute (as in I can only replicate one out of every fifteen attempts), but for the most part it can be considered fixed (for TN reading this I applaud you.)
 
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KING JAIMY

Well-Known Member
I don't think his Desert Falcon is buggy. Are you aware of the fact that in the Lab stage, you get 15 extra damage from throwing your opponent into a Danger Zone FLOOR? The extra damage on a Danger Zone WALL is also 15 (10 from the wall damage itself + 5 damage points from DZ). Now, the extra damage should intuitively be 25 (10 from the wall, 15 from the Danger Zone), but I don't think this is exactly how the damage output calculation works.

Thus, whether you'll be throwing your opponent to the floor or straight at the wall, you'll always get the same damage output. It's different for angled wall hit of course, because it will always subtract 5 damage points - both on a stage with dangerzone walls as well as a stage without dangerzone walls.

In conclusion, the general rule should be as follows:
Desert Falcon dmg (DZ floor) = Desert Falcon dmg (DZ full wall) = Desert Falcon dmg - 5 (DZ angled wall)

In DOA5 the highest amount of damage a Hi Counter throw should be able to hit is 149 points without falling damage being taken into consideration. In the same stage (Lab) Leon's Hi Counter Dervish Throw will deal 148 damage. No big beal. On a wall half hit it will deal 149 damage and a full wall hit nets 154. Something doesn't add up right or the game can't figure out what to do and how to do it properly.
By normal DOA logic the HCH DT on a walled half hit should be 153 damage and full wall hit should be 158. I can understand that the game logic says throws can get up to 149 without falling damage but this one is in need of either a flat damage fix at 149 for the entire string or retains the "normal" damage of the extra 5 damage from a wall half hit and 10 full wall hit.

His Power Launcher Bug is still in but considerably more difficult to execute (as in I can only replicate one out of every fifteen attempts), but for the most part it can be considered fixed (for TN reading this I applaud you.)
As for his Dervish Throw, I think you're right about the damage not being added up logically. The damage output on that one is indeed very weirdly calculated.
 
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Matt Ponton

Founder
Staff member
Administrator
Standard Donor
http://teamninja-studio.com/doa5/lastround/us/info_faq.html

Q8: There are some differences between moves on different platforms. For example, when Zack starts a fight with a low kick hold in the Lab stage, the damage is different depending on the platform. The same goes for whether or not Nyotengu's Nowaki (←P+KP) lands after the Special Danger Zone is triggered on the lower level of Scramble. All
A8: A few moves have been found to behave differently on different platforms. These are planned to be fixed in future patches.
 

Grimace

Active Member
Doesn't seem like a bug to me, any throw that triggers floor damage on danger zone should be doing more damage by hitting the floor than a half wall hit.

Pretty sure that's intentional.
 

XZero264

FSD | Nichol
Premium Donor
New bug as of this 1.05 patch. On the Azuchi stage in the upstairs zone you can knock opponents into the pillars once you get a full wall hit. A second hit will put the opponent into a sit down stun while destroying the pillar.
Leon's Desert Falcon on a forward facing opponent on the second pillar hit will destroy the pillar but wull nuot put the opponent into the appropriate sit down stun. Instead they will act as if they hit a full wall instead. A bt opponent will be out into the sds as well add an air thrown opponent and a opponent knocked back via strikes.
This sucks. Video asap.
 

XZero264

FSD | Nichol
Premium Donor
This bug is actually much worse than I thought. I got more info now about it as well. And anyone can replicate it.
Put opponent between you and full wall and Desert Facon them. New voice snd a new wall hit animation as well (and leaves him at +26).
That plus is all the good to it. Something about that change fucked with everything. Now if you DF someone into a breakable that is considered afull wall that animation is what you get. No sit down stun. If you get an angled hit then you get the normal sds stuff.
The problem less in all the number of things that are considered full wall breakables.
Here is the list:
Pillars in the Desert.
Bouncy wall in The Show.
Ice pillars on The Ends of the Earth.
Walls in Home.
Bouncy Wall in Fuel.
Torches in Sanctuary.
Torches on Fireworks.
Pillars on top floor of Azuchi and Torches at the Bottom of Azuchi.

Bt DF and angled hits work normal.

 

KasumiLover

xX_APO_Prince_Xx
Premium Donor
This bug is actually much worse than I thought. I got more info now about it as well. And anyone can replicate it.
Put opponent between you and full wall and Desert Facon them. New voice snd a new wall hit animation as well (and leaves him at +26).
That plus is all the good to it. Something about that change fucked with everything. Now if you DF someone into a breakable that is considered afull wall that animation is what you get. No sit down stun. If you get an angled hit then you get the normal sds stuff.
The problem less in all the number of things that are considered full wall breakables.
Here is the list:
Pillars in the Desert.
Bouncy wall in The Show.
Ice pillars on The Ends of the Earth.
Walls in Home.
Bouncy Wall in Fuel.
Torches in Sanctuary.
Torches on Fireworks.
Pillars on top floor of Azuchi and Torches at the Bottom of Azuchi.

Bt DF and angled hits work normal.

Is this a glitch? It looks intentional to a degree to me. Maybe it's one of those hidden updates TN includes the patches from time to time?
 

XZero264

FSD | Nichol
Premium Donor
If this is intentional then why is back turned or angled hits not affected? Surely those would have to be changed to match it.
 

KasumiLover

xX_APO_Prince_Xx
Premium Donor
If this is intentional then why is back turned or angled hits not affected? Surely those would have to be changed to match it.
Probably because they felt it working in these two conditions is justified. You shouldn't leave yourself back turned defenseless towards your opponent idle, and the angled hit would seem reasonable as well. Those two make sense to me about being unchanged if this is indeed intentional.
 

DontForkWitMe

Well-Known Member
If this is intentional then why is back turned or angled hits not affected? Surely those would have to be changed to match it.

angled hits not being affected most likely IS the bug. They intended to nerf regular desert falcon to prevent its guaranteed follow ups but forgot to include the angled hits as part of the nerf, they'll completely nerf it in the next patch to ensure he gets nothing guaranteed off it no matter the angle/position don't worry.

Look on the bright side, it just gives you more incentive to use dervish throw , you just have to 100% just frame input all 4 chains of it and hope your opponent doesn't break it. Its not like Leon is left at negative bajillion frame advantage on his chain throw breaks or anything.....oh wait
 
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XZero264

FSD | Nichol
Premium Donor
I'm so confused. Whatever is going on with this has even changed how you interact with against wall breakables. For some reason now you can get his charged p+kT no problem while before 2p+k was optimal because the charged p+k would be considered a back hit and knock your opponent down.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO THINK RIGHT NOW!
 

Grimace

Active Member
I can't believe this is intentional... it doesn't even LOOK as strong when he throws them through stuff now!
 

Matt Ponton

Founder
Staff member
Administrator
Standard Donor
Look on the bright side, it just gives you more incentive to use dervish throw , you just have to 100% just frame input all 4 chains of it and hope your opponent doesn't break it. Its not like Leon is left at negative bajillion frame advantage on his chain throw breaks or anything.....oh wait

It's been verified that at least before this patch the just frame throw guarantee was changed so the loser wins in the event of both players pressing the button at the same time. Not sure when this went into effect, but current theory is since DOA5 vanilla version 1.00. If you remember, they fixed a "bug" where having the AI break fastest wouldn't allow you to chain your combo throws, this was because of the change in the draw result. So their fix was to have the AI break "fastest" as the "frame after fastest". In beta builds (v0.95 at Summer Jam) the AI wasn't able to break fastest if you just frame input the timing. Whether it has been patched in this latest (final?) patch, that remains to be seen if @WAZAAAAA can verify it when Steam gets the patch.
 

DontForkWitMe

Well-Known Member
It's been verified that at least before this patch the just frame throw guarantee was changed so the loser wins in the event of both players pressing the button at the same time. Not sure when this went into effect, but current theory is since DOA5 vanilla version 1.00. If you remember, they fixed a "bug" where having the AI break fastest wouldn't allow you to chain your combo throws, this was because of the change in the draw result. So their fix was to have the AI break "fastest" as the "frame after fastest". In beta builds (v0.95 at Summer Jam) the AI wasn't able to break fastest if you just frame input the timing. Whether it has been patched in this latest (final?) patch, that remains to be seen if @WAZAAAAA can verify it when Steam gets the patch.

giphy.gif
 

XZero264

FSD | Nichol
Premium Donor
After some quick testing it looks like the new DF is proximity based. Too close to something will get you the new throw.
Just found a ridiculous buff from this though. TN seems to have fixed explosive walldamage with throws, all of Leons throws deal more damage against them now except Dervish Throw. Example: new DF deals 149 on Hi Counter and a distanced one deals 132.
 
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