DOA5U Lisa Changes: UPDATED FOR 1.05 26/03/2014

[ailingeternity]

UPDATED: 11/12/2013

This is a full list of Lisa's changes from DOA5 - DOA5U as a result of going throught her moveset in vanilla and comparing the frame data listed in-game with DOA5U. I have not included CH/HCH information, as it will only involve small damage and advantage increases, if you want that information I can compile it but an even better and faster solution is to head to the lab yourself and start investigating.

Key;

BUFF - A move that has gained increased damage and utility.
NERF - A move that has lost damage and utility.
TWEAK - A move that's gained buffs and nerfs, or has had minor changes to improve it's consistency.

NH - Normal Hit.
NT - Normal Throw.
NOH - Normal Offensive Hold.
BT - Back turned.
CAR - Carrera.
X/Y - x denotes advantage from critical stuns when slow escaped, y denotes advantage when not.
* - Denotes a change from the most recent update.
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Changes;

: Now does 11 damage on NH instead of 10.
: Cannot be held on reaction on block now.
: Now +9 on block from +17.
: Now +4 on block from +7.
: Now +23/+35 from -1/+11 on NH.
: Now +11/+23 from +7/+18 on NH and +6 from +2 on block.
: Now +1 on block from +6.
: Now -2/+2 on NH from +0/+4.
: +3/+7 on NH from +5/+9.
: Now 18 frame startup from 15.
: Now 16 damage on NH from 18.
: 15 frame startup from 13 and now -2/+2 from +0/+4, no longer NC.
: 15 frame startup from 13 and now +3/+7 from +5/+9, no longer NC.
: Improved move axis for better reliability.
: Causes the new knockdown stun, can be followed up for a free attack. Delay time reduced.
: Now +6 on NH from +11 when slow escaped, still +11 if not.
: Now +15 on NH from + 23 when slow escaped, still +23 if not.
: Now +12 on NH from +18 when slow escaped, still +18 if not.
: Now 36 damage on NH from 38.
BT : Now NC on NH.

: Now +6/+14 on NH from -6/+2.
: Now 24 damage on NH from 32, now -7 on NH from +2.
: Now -2/+2 on NH from +0/+4.
: Now +3/+7 from +5/+7 on NH.
: Now 24 damage on NH from 32 and -7 on hit. New stun on CH and in combo, causes stun reset.
: Improved move axis for better reliability.*
: Now -2/+2 on NH from +0/+4.
: Now +3/+7 on NH from +5/+9 and -3 on block from -7.*
: Now -2/+2 on NH from +0/+4.
: Now +3/+7 from +5/+7 on NH.
: Now +21/31 on NH from +18/28 and -15 on block from -18.
: No longer causes sit down stun on NH.
: Now +23/+35 from -1/+11 on NH and +18 on block from -6.
: Now +11/+23 from +7/+18 on NH and +6 from +2 on block.
: Now +1 on block from +6.
: Now -19 on block from -23.
: Now +7 on NH from +31 (No free FT).

CAR : Now +21/31 on NH from +18/28 and -15 on block from -18.
CAR : Now +11/+23 from +7/+18 on NH and +6 from +2 on block.
CAR : Now 36 damage on NH from 38.

BT : Now +1 on NH from -4 and +1 on block from -5.
BT : Now -4 from -5.

(All other BT strings that come from Lisa's BT and BT are the same as front facing).

: Now does 50 damage on NT from 45.
: Now does 55 damage on NT from 52.
: Now does 64 damage on NT from 58.
: Now does 56 damage on NT from 50.
: Now +11 on NT from +10, only a 1 hit throw at the wall now, +13 at ropes.
: Now +11 on NT from +10.
BT : Now does 54 damage on NT from 45.

: Now 50 damage from 55 on NOH.
CAR : Now 50 damage on NOH from 60.
BT : Now 55 damage on NOH from 60.
: Now 55 damage on NOH from 60.
: Now 55 damage on NOH from 60.
: Now 55 damage on NOH from 60.
: Now 55 damage on NOH from 60.
: Now 55 damage on NOH from 60.
: Now 45 on NOH from 50. Range increased.
BT Now 60 damage on NOH from 65.*
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Please pay mind to what I've listed as nerfs, most have extremely minor damage decreases and disadvantage increases that won't effect Lisa's gameplay but in the long run they do effect her safety and damage output hence why they are listed as such.

Discuss...

 

[AkaShocka]

Soooooooo..... I am trying to figure out if she's better, worse or somewhat the same. I wish I had my PS3 to try these things but its broke -sad face- . Thanks though! My fellow Lisa FSD member!

 

[ailingeternity]

Basically her changes make her BT game very solid and is integral to her game ( is a very good string now), Carrera mixups are also more viable since moves that transition into them have more safety and give more advantage on hit (, ). If you were in sync with Lisa's shenanigan game in DOA4 then bring that back, her throws with the damage buffs (though not quite Tina and Bass level) make her overall trickery game very, very annoying and it's essential to capitalize on opponent's mistakes, especially since she can throw punish too. It's very important to be weary of your spacing game though with the nerfs on and , try subtituting them with great ranged tools like and feinting, while is still a great high crush it can be beaten out a lot more by other characters well ranged mid pokes.

 

[MasterHavik]

1P still crushes, but is slower. That will hurt. I'm kind of shocked some of her throws were nerfed. Hmm..She may have been ran into the ground or painfully stayed the same with improvements to one area of her being BT. am I reading this right?

 

[synce]

 

[b-bombs]

Honestly, I'm kinda happy with this. It's forced me to utilize BT transitions much more and not just be lazy with 1P. It's made me a better player. Using those throws out of 7K, BT, and CAR to mixup with the hits has definitely taken me from an insanely shit player to a slightly less shit player.

 

[ailingeternity]

Not having a decent low from front facing is such a shit thing for Lisa, she has a harder time counter hit hunting because of the nerfed unless it's crushing, her other ranged moves are slow or unsafe (, ) and her mix-up game from front facing leaves much to be desired, now forces you to use a follow-up, it grants a free throw on NH at almost ANY range, if you use it, ALWAYS follow it up. If you want to use low pressure you're better off mixing in offensive holds with launchers after gaining advantage to make it a 50/50 situation, is a good string to use though since it's +0 on block and leaves enough advantage on CH or during stun to bait holds for Deja Vu or launch with BT . While CAR transitions are buffed CAR itself is still pretty crap, is her only good move because of it's massive hitbox and immensely deep stun which is great for shenanigans and hold baiting. and BT also provide unshakable stuns on CH and during stun. It's all about shenanigans, shenanigans, shenanigans! What's great about the new Lisa is using BT mixups, you can substitute launches for the now buffed BT or the new BT . You can also perform Deja Vu from BT for harsh hold punishment. She still has her guaranteed from BT on block. is a 50/50 setup regardless if it hits or is blocked. Also her power launcher has a great combo, abuse it!

 

[synce]

I think 44T is a definite nerf, it was so beastly against the wall before. Outside of the wall though I'm doing my usual setups with it

 

[ailingeternity]

I agree synce I've just edited my last post, it doesn't actually give a free you can SE and hold the last my bad.

 

[Tones]

1k's stun property change as well.
9k sit downs on counter does it not?.

 

[Gruff757]

1k's stun property change as well.
9k sit downs on counter does it not?.

yup it does. im fine with it being that way personally.

 

[FakeSypha]

I posted this a couple of days ago on the media section. I don't think its worth to make a new thread for this, so I'm gonna leave it here. It's a glitch with her BT 4P+K that makes Lisa go through the foe. It's needed to be done on a stunned opponent pressed against a corner or wall. I believe it has something to do with character axis / camera.

 

[Gruff757]

it has been there since vanilla :T

 

[FakeSypha]

it has been there since vanilla :T

Oh wow... really? Well, let the glitch be then xD

 

[Tones]

How is that against grounded opponents?

 

[ailingeternity]

Just updating on , I mentioned previously that you can land a free afterwards. There are some characters that can back dash and avoid the launch, however, if they slow escape after , or attempt to hold the launch (even low hold) they will always eat the launch for a free juggle, you cannot back parry either. Slow escaping in whatever situation however will reduce the launch height but guarantees the launch on every character. The only way to escape is to succumb to the stun from and only certain characters can do this, this way you avoid the launch, having this prior knowledge is crucial when facing Lisa and allows her to be a decent turtler. 's status won't alter from the changes I've posted, plus there are no damage bonuses on counter or hi-counter throw, but it's an efficient punisher, more so than any other of her throws. The majority of the time this will succeed.

Characters who can escape with backdashing.



Characters who cannot escape with backdashing.

**

* = Rarely whiffs but still very consistent.

Take note of the characters you're facing and utilize this as much as possible.

If you are near a wall and unable to land , use or instead to start a wall juggle.

Juggles

Normal Juggle

Alpha: air grab - 96 damage
Light: air grab - 90 damage
Mid: air grab - 90 damage
Heavy: air grab - 74 damage

Slow Escaped

Alpha: air grab - 88 damage
Light: air grab - 76 damage
Mid: : CAR - 72 damage
Heavy: air grab - 66 damage

 

[AkaShocka]

Ah yes. I totally forgot about being toned down. I usually did BT BT then air throw.
Yes I know even in vanilla that they could escape but it could catch them the majority of the time. Now its just bleeh. But I will keep trying to find new things.
But I works pretty well now. I can use that more

 

[Tones]

Good so see people wising up to 44p+k. That throw has always been good.

Game comes out here tomorrow can't wait to give the things in this thread a shot.

 

[AkaShocka]

@ailingeternity
I realized when I launch with in critical the combo that every Lisa players does CAR it doesn't work. The kick after 6p never works. What happened there?

 

[ailingeternity]

Not sure how you mean, are you saying it always whiffs after using ? or is this after you launch? General rule is Lisa's juggle damage is highly nerfed, gives lower launch height so she can't juggle after with anymore and her air grab has higher damage scaling

On a side note, Lisa should be getting damage outside of CB, if you can land one, great, but don't play the aggressive stun game like in vanilla. When you can PL do it, but that's the only time to implement CB as her combo from it deals exceptional damage.