Most common beginner and bad Lisa player habits, patterns and mistakes

#1
I have been playing Core fighters for a little while, an I don't have much experience with or against most of the cast, but I just bought DOA5U on disk and want to play Lisa.

I wondering from Lisa players:

*what types of moves and strings you feel are misused, (for keepout, pressure, bad or fake mixups, etc)

*what mistakes, playstyle, philosophy, choices you corrected or changed to get to the level were you are at now

And in general anyone that plays against Lisa:

*what do you look for from the character to exploit (hanging themselves)

*what trends do you find from Lisa players do you feel give you an advantage
 

Batcommander

Well-Known Member
Main Character
#2
Hello, welcome to FSD! :)

Ill share my own personal bad habits at this game:

Abusing :1::P::P:. I do it, every other online Lisa does it, followed by a quick backdash to escape anyone trying to punish with an attack. It looks cool and feels great to escape an attack!

However, it's -8 and Backturned, extremely easy to throw punish for everyone, offline and online. No one ever throw punishes this but they totally should.

Another bad habit: using :8::f+p: to jump over a downed opponent. This is a very good tactic against people that have no idea how to escape it because you basically get a free BT :4::P: after it, but for anyone that knows how to beat it (delay your wakeup), it's just a shenanigan.

Also, my execution sucks: you should be punishing holds with :214::f+p: or :41236::f+p:, but i usually just use :4::f+p:. Also, i never punish with :4::4::f+p: because i cant get the notation in time; instead i use :6::f+p: (the former is far superior if you can master the timing).

I used to play a very turtley Lisa back in vanilla, but now am even more turtley since they nerfed the speed of :1::P:. I almost never go for critical burst setups but i used to all the time when it was easy as hell to spam :1::P:. Now i keep my distance and focus on keeping the opponent away from me.

Because of nerfed :1::P: , i use :6::P: a helluva lot more because it has similar range but is faster. I will also use :2::P: in a pinch to high crush since :1::P: sucks up close now.

I use :P::P: a lot because it cannot be interrupted on block anymore and has a crapload of followups, safe on block, great at conditioning people to hold.

Also, Lisa can still be played offensively imo, there is no definitive way to play her, these are just my two cents.
 

AkaShocka

Well-Known Member
Main Character
La Mariposa
#3

This is how I use her now. Much different than I did before. I really can't explain how I use her besides the fact I go in and out of stances to play the mind games. She can be played as an aggressor, spacer or whatever. There really isn't just one way to play her.
 
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#4
This is very interesting stuff, thanks batcommander and akashocka for your posts.

@AkaShocka, I find it very interesting in your video, you used :1::P::K: predominately, as it accounted for most of your offense - I counted 10 :1::P: strings and 1 stuffed :1::P:. I don't know anything about the Jacky matchup, but I think that opponent didn't know how to handle it. I would assume the the :K: extension is holdable on hit, unholdable on counterhit? Or maybe having a faster move to beat out :1::P: is the key.
Would you say your using :1::P::P:/ :1::P::K: more now than before?

@Batcommander, you said :1::P: was a bad habit for you, do you find it better or worse against any characters in particular? Is :1::P::P: , :1::P::K: a good mix up? What is Lisa's best mix up?
 
#5
Interesting thread, for me bad habits would definitely be using :4::P::K: too much as it's access to a quick and delayable 50/50 string and too much of :9::K:.
Is :1::P::P: , :1::P::K: a good mix up? What is Lisa's best mix up?
On counter hit yes as you get enough advantage with :1::P::P: for a 50/50 launch/throw setup and :1::P::K: gives a shit-ton of advantage for a quick critical burst setup, :1::P::P: is only +4 on normal hit (+0 if stagger escaped) so it forces :1::P: (in most cases) to be used as a counter hit hunting tool in the high crushing and step hunting methods, as it's only an 18 frame startup it gets snuffed out by faster mids. Lisa's best mixup is a matter of opinion I think but for me it's quite easily :6::6::P: a tracking high with great follow-ups, :6::6::P::P: hits mid can potentially lead to a double limbo stun (free launcher) or a crumple stun (cannot be stagger escaped) and despite :6::6::P::K: being nerfed recently hits low and is still a good setup for BT mixups.
 
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Batcommander

Well-Known Member
Main Character
#6
@Batcommander, you said :1::P: was a bad habit for you, do you find it better or worse against any characters in particular? Is :1::P::P: , :1::P::K: a good mix up? What is Lisa's best mix up?
i should clarify: :1::P: is still one of Lisa's best tools, but :1::P::P: is dangerous as fuck because if blocked it's easy to punish. Since nobody punishes it online with a throw, i just backdash after its blocked (Lisa's backdash while Backturned is amazing) and whiff punish the opponent. This is totally not feasible offline or against anyone with matchup knowledge.

Ideally, you should aim to use :1::P::K: and mixup with :1::P::K::K:, and throw in :1::P::P: to confuse opponents. Also :1::P::P: doubles the range of the move so there's that to consider too when counter hit hunting.

But like ailing said above, it can get beat by faster moves now in 5U. In vanilla it was i15 and you could spam the shit out of :1::P::K:/:1::P::K::K:. Also :1::P::K: is only -5 on block and like ailingsaid, gives a huge stun advantage, so it is the safer move with greater advantage, will stop sidesteps, but with the disadvantage of being a high attack.

:6::6::P::P:/:6::6::P::K: is a good mixup like ailing said; personally, i feel :P::P: is Lisa's best mixup on block and hit.

That is just my opinion tho! ;)
 
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#12
Thanks to everyone for your posts

Interesting thread, for me bad habits would definitely be using :4::P: :K:too much as it's access to a quick and delayable 50/50 string and too much of :9::K:.
Does the bad habit come in overuse of :4::P::K: or are there weaknesses that experienced opponents will exploit? Are those moves the moves you get counterhit, held, or punished the most from?
 

Tones

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
Australia
Main Character
Tengu
Gamertag
bechatron
#13
Nice thread.

What I get from the Lisa players here, is that they try to be too fancy. Stick to basic shit. Have a read of the thread I'm going to link you to understand my play style.

People get caught up in the particulars, numbers and shit instead of understand how one can deal damage.

A lack of understanding the importance of pressure.

A lack of understand what pressure is.

A lack of understanding the interplay of the foundations of the game.

http://www.freestepdodge.com/threads/brad-notepad.1593/

People thinking 8k is a good move and using it too much.

Recently I've even been using 1kk. That's right 1kk. Not 1k2k. And yes it's producing results.

@AkaShocka Rape the Jacky in that match because he was controlling the rhythm of the game. Notice in the first round it was just blah blah blah exchanging attacks, and random crushes. He didn't gain much ground at all, but once he played distance then mixed that up with the stun game in about once in the second the third round the Jacky had no answer.
 
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Gruff757

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Portsmouth, Virginia
Main Character
Lisa
Gamertag
Gruff757
PSN ID
Gruff757
#14
Most of the time, Im using 1k as a baiter for people to try and run in. I use 1kk way more than 1k2k simply because it takes the opponent's mind off of 1k2k enough for me to catch them slipping when they expect the mid strike.

I think Lisa players need to use Hammer Throw and Leap Frog more. Especially Leap Frog. It gives you a free booty bump on a BT opponent which opens up a plethora of options after it is utilized, even a vortex. Hammer Throw is great against the wall because it puts the opponent into a non wake-up situation and allows you to start wall pressure
 
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ToiletMangoes

Well-Known Member
Sacramento, California
Main Character
Lisa
Gamertag
ToiletMangoes
PSN ID
ToiletMangoes
#15
Booty Bump is better than it seems at first glance. I find myself using it more and more on BT or even FT opponents who don't expect it. If it is countered tho it seems like you are at massive disadvantage.

I think one of my main issues is I play too defensively and Lisa is not as good when played that way. She seems to be a poor turtle.
 

synce

Well-Known Member
Main Character
Tengu
#18
I don't think I've even met another Lisa since 5U came out, but I've only played like 400 matches. So I can't comment on others mistakes but what's worked for me is limiting her mostly trash movelist to 5 or so really good moves. Lisa's very easy to bait whiffs with so I abuse that instead of relying on stuns
 
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Gruff757

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Portsmouth, Virginia
Main Character
Lisa
Gamertag
Gruff757
PSN ID
Gruff757
#19
Her movelist really isnt as bad as people make it out to be. I also believe that Lisa is not a 5-10 moves character. Yes she has her main moves, but as time goes on you start to see that she has to use a lot more of her moveset than other characters. Which in turn is good and bad at the same time.
 
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