DOA5U "Prepare" - Ayane General Gameplay Discussion

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iHajinShinobi

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This thread will be used to discuss all things game play related to Ayane in DOA5U. Any new findings, possible buffs, nerfs, new attacks, strings, short strings, combos, and general concerns and speculation about DOA5U Ayane are to be discussed here.

Let's keep all of the DOA5U Ayane discussion in this thread, and out of the others to keep things clean and organized. Keep the fanservice elsewhere, we are not discussing that here.

Anything inside brackets [ ] indicates that button or direction must be held.

List of changes to Ayane in DOA5U 1.00-1.03;

- 1P+K: 11 is no longer the input notation for Ayane's back spin. It is now 1P+K. Takes a moment (or a few) to adjust to the change, but it is well worth the readjustment. It no longer takes 3 frames for back spins to become active due to slower input. Ayane's back spin is now a 1 frame input (instant) because it is much more simple to input now.

This is considered a buff because Ayane's frames shot up being faster on the back spin now. This notation also gave her access to Korean Back Dash (KBD). Which just strengthened her movement ability tenfold.

- 1P+K P: Still very solid for whiff punishment, and it still delivers that delicious unstaggerable gut stun. But this is no longer to be considered as our keep out tool. Because it is now -8 on block and no longer guard breaks. If you're using this, be sure that you are precise with your spacing because you will get punished hard if you don't.

- [1]P+K P: Same as the above 1P+K P, only except Ayane delays her punch follow up, giving her move spacing and the punch actually guard breaks like it did DOA5 Vanilla. +5 on block, +6 on block at tip range.

- 1P+K K: Still very solid for whiff punishment for sure and as a keep out tool. This move here recieved some tweaks. It no longer tracks, BUT, it is now -5 at it's closest range on block, -3 at a distance, and -1 at tip range. It was -6, -4 and -2 in vanilla. It's safe to say that you're not getting thrown out of this unless it whiffs close enough or it's -5 for a grappler to punish.

- P4P: 10 frame jab into a mid punch, leaves Ayane back turned. +0 on hit, -5 on block, does not track. This move right here, it completes Ayane's jab cancel mix ups. P4P's delay is unseeable, making it perfect for counter hits against players actually trying to disrespect the jab cancels after blocking or being hit. Or if you've trained players to respond with button presses after they've seen your jab cancels.

P4P also serves as a strong mix up during critical stun. P4P > BT8P is also legit on the +0 if you decide to back away instead of following up with an attack.

- Side step P4: Her side step punch can now transition into back turn stance, it's something she's needed here. Adds mix up potential on hit just like 66P4 does.

- Side Step P+K: Ayane side steps then transitions into back turn stance.

- Side Step K: SS K actually puts opponents into a Crumble stun now, just like 4K does. Definitely a buff.

- 4H+K: It is a natural limbo stun in open stance now, and it is -17 on block. 4P+K combos are delicious here if this hits.

- 3H+K: It's properties remain intact, -3 on block (used to be +0 on block in Vanilla), still very safe. We are no longer getting our guaranteed 70 damage anymore midscreen because 3H+K no longer has it's sitdown stun. However, the bound this has on hit can be followed up with various hits to get some damage. 3H+K bound combos can be found within' the combo discussion thread.

- BT 4P+KP: The short version of her BT PPPP string, which is the third and fourth hits of the string. Both are mid punches, BT 4P+K stuns on normal hit (and counter hit) and is -14 on block, BT 4P+KP puts opponents into an unstaggerable gut stun on hit and is -8 on block. This short version is a great option for Ayane when her opponents are in critical stun while she's back turned. More 50/50's~

Just an FYI, 1P+KP, BT PPPP, and BT 4P+KP are all -8 on block.

- 4P+K: This move actually launches higher now on back turned opponents and at level 2 Critical stun threshold. Certain combos that only connected on light weights, also connect on mid weights as well now. More solid damage all around, definitely a buff.

- 44P+K: Ayane's Power Launcher. Power Launcher combos can be found within' the combo discussion thread. More combos will be found over time.

- 7P+K: This is now Ayane's Power Blow Notation.

- 4P/BT4P: Still the great hi crush it always was, and still launches on counter hit. The day that it doesn't will be the death of Ayane, lol. DO NOT let the new juggle airstate it has fool you. The launch height is still the same, BTPP4PP7K and BTPP6P~K are still hit confirrmable at their usual launch heights.

- 64H+P: Still just as advantageous as it was in vanilla, and all our of combos are still guaranteed here. No need to stress here, this throw is just as powerful as it ever was. That includes 64H advance mid punch hold as well.

DOA5U 1.04 Ayane Change List (1/14/2014):
  • 4P, Back 4P, Back PP6P: Float on Critical Level 1 changed.
  • Mid K Hold: Brushed up the design of the motion.
  • 6P: Damage reduced from 22 to 18.
  • 6PK, PP6PK: Damage increased from 26 to 30.
  • 8KK: Guard advantage changed from -18 to -20F.
  • 3P: Delayable frames adjusted.
  • 3PP: Normal hit advantage changed from -9 to -3.
  • 4P·K, Back 4P·K, Back PP6P·K: Wall knockback distance increased from 3 to 4m.
  • 236K: Wall knockback distance increased from 4 to 5 (4.8)m.
  • 2H+K, 6K2K, PP6K2K, 3PK, 33P2K: Counter Hit and above advantage changed from +23 to +18F.
  • Back PP6K: Guard advantage changed from -11 to -16F, no longer is continuous guard.
  • 2K: Normal hit advantage changed from -6 to -2F.
Keep in mind that this list of changes are NOT final. This is just from 1/14/2014's loketest.

Comfirmation on 1.04 changes:

- 4P, BT4P and BTPP6P's launch height have been restored. I don't consider this a buff, but a reset to it's former glory.

- 6P's damage is indeed at 18. This means that our 6P will no longer out priortize other i13 mids due to damage. Now, it'll either clash or someone will beat someone out on frame advantage. Although 6K is 20 damage, so we will have to use it more than before now.

- 6PK and PP6PK's damage is really nice. The damage increase from 26 to 30 actually makes quite the difference, especially when a wall is involved.

Example: 66KK4 > Free cancel > PP6PK = 78 on neutral hit now. Shifting from BT to face foward also implies that you will be able to set up okizeme or back away A LOT faster than you would after the generic BTPP4PP7K BnB by walls. I've been working this in my game for awhile now after finding out that 6PK's damage would increase, it's really helpful.

- 3P's delayable frames are "slightly" less than they originally were, but definitely nothing too drastic. You can commit to it and still delay a follow up or free cancel mix up. But the window for that huge delay isn't there anymore, it's just moderately large now. You will still have to respect this strike and it's mix ups. 3PP being -3 on neutral hit is also a plus because it's no longer -9. So Ayane is no longer left at such a risk at neutral. Keep in mind this is on neutral hit, not counter hit or on block.

- 4P~K, BT4P~K and BTPP4P~K's increased distance is fucking amazing. Midscreen, you are sent flying to the other side of the screen, literally (fullscreen). And if a wall/object is even in 4 meters distance, you are sent flying into for 10+ damage more.

Example: Counter hit 3PP > BTPP6P~K on a feather to mid weight = 85 with a wall if it's in distance (75 midscreen).

This is a huge buff for Ayane. This means a couple of things, 1) It forces opponents to work their way into strike range all over again from fullscreen. 2) Walls have become Ayane's best friend now, walls have always been beneficial for her. But now, this is just insane. No one is safe in the Home stage at all anymore, they already weren't before, but holy shit I love this. The same applies to her 236K drill kick, making even THAT a better reason to use it for whiff punishment "now". Speaking of 236K....

- 236K, I always said "Don't use it", well....now I want people to use it, lol. For a few reasons;

1) 236K's distance was increased. Before, I shrugged it off and said "this is stupid", but I'm really thinking about the increase to it's wall distance. I did 3H+K > 236K by accident while attempting 3H+K > 66KK4 BT7K (3H+K > 236K is actually really old but it will be quite significant to play NOW) and the dummy went flying into the wall. What made me rethink things about 236K is--3H+K > 236K hits at all ranges for 3H+K on hit. It's 39 damage on neutral, 49 with a wall. With a close hit it's 47 and 57 with a wall, neither are anything significant (but damage is damage).

However, MY thing with this is, that this shit sets up solid okizeme midscreen. If opponent's tech after the 3H+K > 236K, Ayane is left +0 and she will be out any strikes. If they don't tech up, then 2H+K will hit them for free and leave Ayane at +18. And, the fact that 236K will crash players into a wall at a farther distance is a plus too, so it's really a win win situation nonetheless. A buff.

- 6K2K, 2H+K, 3PK, 33P2K and PP6K2K: Our efforts with tweeting Shimbori and Team Ninja to leave their hit advantage at +23 was a failure. It is +18, and +11 at fastest stagger. HOWEVER, the more I think about it, I'm not really considering this a nerf at all. Just a "balance change" because even if you stagger the 6K2K low sweep, Ayane is left +11 frame advantage.

So one of two things will happen now, either option A, or option B. Option A means you will be guessing between fast launcher (i14 to i15 frames ideally), fast strikes (i10 to i13) or a throw. Option B means Ayane can continue her pressure if you stagger, because she'll be at frame advantage, lol.

- 8KK's guard advantage being -20 on block is irrelevant.

- 6H mid kick's change is irrelevant, all that changed was it's camera angle -_-

- 2K is -2 on neutral hit, not sure what Team Ninja wants players to do with their neutral 2K's on neutral "yet" but it'll be figured out soon.

The only real nerf Ayane recieved was the following;

- BTPP6KK4 can be crouched on reaction now like 66KK4 can. This will actually hurt our BT pressure. I'm still working on something to keep it very viable, but needless to say, for the first time, I'm actually not happy about this change, at all.

Changes in 1.05
- hit detection adjusted for heavy ground attacks

- 3H+K: Damage increased from 23 to 26.

More buffs.
 
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Tenryuga

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It's been said that her BT PPPP string no longer guard breaks. Idk if it's still frame advantage or it effects other variations of the string though.
 

bingsoo

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It's been said that her BT PPPP string no longer guard breaks. Idk if it's still frame advantage or it effects other variations of the string though.

BT PPPP still guard breaks; it no longer jails. The last P can be held even if the 3rd hit is blocked. Overall, Ayane received nerfs here and there. 3H+K being the most obvious.
 

iHajinShinobi

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That would make sense, since the 3rd and 4th hit of BT PPPP can now be used as a short string, apparently. +5 from that would be ridiculous, especially if that short variation is a fast mid.
 

synce

Well-Known Member
If it's based on E3 build that info may be outdated. I've heard in the latest build that not only is that GB gone but the string is unsafe. Also BT PP2P2K doesn't FT anymore. No word on any buffs.
 

iHajinShinobi

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If it's based on E3 build that info may be outdated. I've heard in the latest build that not only is that GB gone but the string is unsafe. Also BT PP2P2K doesn't FT anymore. No word on any buffs.


Then that tells me that BTPPPP would just have to be delayed if it's being used for her BT mix up. I'm sure force techs are still in the game, probably just haven't been enough exploration yet. Or the ground game changed a bit. Maybe BT PP6P2K still force techs?
 

synce

Well-Known Member
I can't say for sure, I just know several JP players have said that most if not all FT's are now gone, not just for Ayane but the whole roster, even Bass was affected (pickup is still there, but not as guaranteed)

Actually wasn't there initially some 'glitch' in 1.03 that disabled FT's? Maybe TN's been toying with the idea since back then
 

iHajinShinobi

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I'm not sure if it was a glitch or just a change TN made at the time before 1.03a. And yeah, if current force techs are removed, then that just means the ground game is being changed in general.
 

phoenix1985gr

Active Member
3h+k gives the new "bound" state right? (its either 3h+k or BT 6k) i saw it in one of the vids from e3 i think it was on the trailer but not sure

ok here it is @ 2:32

 

synce

Well-Known Member
Yes I've heard 3H+K bounds even on NH, still seems like a big nerf unless it also bounds during a juggle... I don't think I've seen anyone attempt such combos or if they're even possible in 5U.
 

ShinMaruku

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Not sure if it's the Tekken bound but that bound is this: The Bound system builds on that by making the lower body of the opponent "recoil" when they slam into the ground, partially lifting it into the air, giving the player the chance to continue their juggle.
If it's like this... Hoo boy Tag will be sublime.
 

bingsoo

Well-Known Member
Yeah that definitely looks like a bound, and if bounds work anything like they do in Tekken, the followup will be guaranteed and 3H+K will still be something to fear.
 

ShinMaruku

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Pretty sure with these new bounds if enough relivant characters get them the match ups will change so much. I am now looking forward to doa5+
 

dawnbringer

Active Member
3h+k gives the new "bound" state right? (its either 3h+k or BT 6k) i saw it in one of the vids from e3 i think it was on the trailer but not sure

By how it looks I would call it "zero-gravity stagger" or something. Although it definitely looks to be designed to allow guaranteed follow-ups.
 

J.D.E.

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The bound states are gonna be something to feared. So if 3H+K will be a bound state, it's only a wonder if 4K will be a bound since it's used as a knockdown?
 
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