Rate Your Main DOA Character(s)

[Dark_Ky]

this idea has been carried over from tekkenzaibatsu.com and testyourmight.com. i think this is great to measure the strengths of each characters. i simply copied this post from m2dave (yes i am lazy as fuck) and made some adjustments.

the character forums on this web site are mostly dead and abandoned (take this how you want but imo this is kinda true). I want to start something serious and informative. Read the categories below carefully and rate your main DOA character, or characters.


Offense (5/5) Everything that involves breaking down your opponent defensively.

Holds/Defense in general (5/5) simply how much advantage/damage your character gets out of a successful hold and everything that involves defending in general (for example something like a "get off me" move)

Damage (5/5) Rate your character's overall damage output.

Zoning (4/4) Everything that involves keeping your opponent at a specific spot on the screen

Speed (3/3) how fast your character is and how much of an advantage he/she has over slower characters

Safeness (3/3) how much risk does your character have to take while playing his/her game? how badly will she/he be punished for beeing unsafe? how about her/his tracking?


Total: ?? / 25

 

[Jaguar360]

Ryu Hayabusa
Offense (3/5) Ryu gets great and easy damage, but he has a lot of trouble getting to hit his opponents. He needs to build pressure.
Defense (4.5/5) Ryu has good spacing and gets the best hold damage in the game with his expert punch holds. He also has a useful parry from his Ongyoin stance to put him at neutral or sometimes give him advantage. Good at throw punishing unsafe moves with 6T, 66T, and 46T.
Power (4.5/5) It's not Leon or Bass damage, but Busa gets great damage all across the board. His air throw allows him to get good damage from even the simplest combos such as , air throw. He also has the 4th highest throw damage in the game with the Izuna Otoshi doing 80 damage. Ryu's powerful Shoho Izuna allows him to get high damage from strikes and is especially good after a Critical Burst or Power Launcher. Along with Leon, Ryu has obscene power in the Home stage and is able to do great damage in any stage with a ceiling thanks to the Izuna.
Zoning (3.5/4) Not as good as Hayate or Ein, but Hayabusa probably takes 3rd or 4th place with zoning. He has plenty of useful long-range moves such as , , , , and . flips Hayabusa backwards and puts him in his Ongyoin stance, which also gives him plenty of options like , , (this is a bad move, but has decent range is just used for mixing things up) and his teleporting moves (easily seen coming except for 8K and easily avoided). from regular stance is useful for keeping the opponent away when they come close.
Speed (1.5/3) Ryu's speed is not very good, toned down a lot from previous DOA games. Ryu must get into a rhythm of sorts to build speed and pressure throughout the match. His fastest options are probably his jab strings, 6PK, 6K(K/P), and 7K. From Ongyoin, his options are not that fast and must use P, 6P, 2P+K and 6P+K. As a whole, he outspeeds Bass, Leon, Bayman and Brad and just about ties with Tina and Rachel.
Safeness (1/3) Ryu is a huge risk-taking character and the majority of his moves are unsafe. His only regular guard breaks are :[p+k]:, , :[P]: and (:[P]: is an option from Ongyoin and from back-turned he has :[p] and most of his strings are unsafe on block and whiff. Much of Ryu's gameplay concerns going for hi-counter Izunas, which can be risky since throwing is always a risk except for when punishing.
Total (18/25) Hayabusa is capable of so much with his Izunas and other stuff, but finds trouble actually getting a hit and must take big risks to win. +10 for being the coolest character in the series.

 

[Argentus]

Leon

Offense (5/5) Constant guard breaks, and can take away 4/5s of an opponents off of 2-3 hits if played right.

Holds/Defense in general (5/5) Counters alone can annihilate an opponent in one or two hits, and they lead into his combo grapples more often than not.

Damage (5/5) Again. Can destroy an opponent in only 2-3 hits if you know how to use him.

Zoning (1/4) This....he's actually kinda meh at. Aside from a couple moves, his overall range is actually pretty short. His moves are generally slow with short reach, so he's not great at having to chase opponents.

Speed (1/3) Slow as hell, but I like it that way. Makes me work for my damage, and oh so satisfying to get that perfect read to land a high counter Arm Grenade, Dervish Throw, or Desert Falcon without at setups to make up for its slowness.

Safeness (1.5/3) Not really sure how to describe it. He's slow, predictable, with short range, but this is made up for the fact that most of his moves guard break, combo grapple, and destroy opponents in literally seconds if they do land.

Total: 18.5 / 25

Mila


Offense (5/5) Simple, practical, and brutal. Shes straightforward and a tad predictable, but so efficient that it doesn't matter.

Holds/Defense in general (4/5) a good chunk of her holds, and specifically, the ones that will be used the most, lead right back into her main offense, the mount tackle. So her counters are equally as deadly as her offense.

Damage 3/5 Her actual attacks, by themselves, are minor damage at best. But the versatility and efficiency of her moves more than compensate for this. As I don't juggle or string much, I still find her to absolutely wreck people.

Zoning 3/4 She lacks the mobility of faster characters, but her overhead wheel kick and back roundhouse have insane reach, as do certain punches of hers. I find it easy enough to zone with her.

Speed 2/3 Can't match the speed of the ninjas without abusing stun, but the fact that her fighting style is so practical makes her punches seem faster because unlike most others, she's not doing some big flashy sweeping motion, she just makes her move.

Safeness 1.5/3 Without abusing stun or juggles, she's not all that safe, but that actually works in her favor, because it acts as psychological bait on the opponent, which lets her get them in the mount tackle easier, and more.

23/25

 

[Squizzo]

Brad

Offence (3.5/5) Average offence, he has a pretty decent stun game and some useful guard breaks, offensive holds and crushes and has a 3 hit CB. Mostly relies on mix ups and mind games.

Holds/Defence (3/5) Nothing special in this department, reasonable damage on holds. Can use his stances to ensure he takes a knock down instead of a long string.

Damage (3/5) Reasonable damage,doesn't have the most damaging strings put has some powerful knock backs and distance closers.

Zoning (3.5/4) Has a few very long range attacks and is pretty good at ranged pokes. Can stance dance to close distance while keeping the opponent guessing. Has several throws that put you at the opponents back, which can be performed from multiple stances.

Speed (1/3) Very slow to start up attacks and therefore doesn't like close range pressure. Best to build up momentum from range.

Safeness (2/3) Many attacks are slow and leave you at frame disadvantage, but lots of mix ups and being able to transition to stances straight from attacks sort of makes up for it.

Total (16/25) Not a high tier character by any means, but definitely one of the most fun to use. Brad can be a difficult character to learn and suffers a lot from online lag. His strength lies in his evasiveness, mix ups and unpredictability.

 

[Dark_Ky]

Leon

Mila

Zoning 4/5 She lacks the mobility of faster characters, but her overhead wheel kick and back roundhouse have insane reach, as do certain punches of hers. I find it easy enough to zone with her.

Speed 4/5 Can't match the speed of the ninjas without abusing stun, but the fact that her fighting style is so practical makes her punches seem faster because unlike most others, she's not doing some big flashy sweeping motion, she just makes her move.

Safeness 3/5 Without abusing stun or juggles, she's not all that safe, but that actually works in her favor, because it acts as psychological bait on the opponent, which lets her get them in the mount tackle easier, and more.

23/25

you accidentally made the above categories (5/5)

they should have been: Zoning (4/4) Speed (3/3) Safeness (3/3)

mila is godlike now lol. please edit your post


i like where this going. would be awesome if we could do everyone

 

[Nameless Sama]

Ryu

Holds 5/5 He has experts holds which makes much damage by counter +

Throws 5/5 Do I have anything to say ?

Strike 3/5 Good mix ups but not to good. Ryu was a beast the best character in DOAU 1 and 2 becuase his old Handstandskills which you allowed to have more escape and attack options !

Speed 2/5 He is good with Strikes and mix up but his weakness is his attack speed. With Ryu you must exactly know when you must attack because oh his slow speed.

Strength 3/5 All his Strikes makes good damage they are some slow but makes at least good damage.

You cant say if a character is good or not and if he is safe or not becuase you must your character so in that case you really work with this infomations. Sure He or she has weaknesses but you can win at least. the real point is to use the character very well.

 

[Dark_Ky]

Ryu

Throws 5/5 Do I have anything to say ?

yes you should. you cant expect anyone to know what you mean. this thread was meant to be a summary of the strengths and weaknesses of each char. something like this wont help anyone

Ryu
Strike 3/5 Good mix ups but not to good. Ryu was a beast the best character in DOAU 1 and 2 becuase his old Handstandskills which you allowed to have more escape and attack options !

this is my first DOA. i dont know what the hell you mean and tbh who cares how he was in these games. this is DOA5U.

Ryu
You cant say if a character is good or not and if he is safe or not becuase you must your character so in that case you really work with this infomations. Sure He or she has weaknesses but you can win at least. the real point is to use the character very well.

i doesnt matter how "well" you use your character. if the framedata says your unsafe your unsafe. this is drawback you may compensate with good play but that doesent change the fact the character is in on paper punishable.


thb i wish that every post was like the one Jaguar360 did lol. in a nutshell what the char is about and even listing the moves to underline his statement. just imagine that a complete noob comes here and seeks for info on some chars. this might be a great help.

 

[Nameless Sama]

(Kopfschmerzen bis zum geht nicht mehr)

1. I write this post for myself not for anyone. If a newbie want a learn a Character they should visit the character forums which is better than this imo lol .

2. It cares to the people who uses this character and they want them back. Sure its DOA5U and that is different than DOAU but I mean something different lol.

3. lmao It matters how you use a character lol. Framedata is important but it would doesnt help you if you can use a character well. I give your a tip some framedata are not correct............ and yeah I punished someone loud framedata with a attack form 9+ and a attack form me with 16+

4. Sorry not everybody can be like Jaguar.... That what I was saying with learning the character with moves set ups etc.

And yes I can write like Jaguar I could write more than Jaguar because I have much more knowledge about him that is not the topic. The point is this thread wouldnt help. Wana learn a character go the character forums.



(beruhigt)

 

[David Gregg]

well that escalated fast...

 

[Nameless Sama]

David no no my expression sound always rude ! I am not angry or something else xD This is only a misunderstanding. You can be sure everything is alright :O

 

[Dark_Ky]

(Kopfschmerzen bis zum geht nicht mehr)

1. I write this post for myself not for anyone. If a newbie want a learn a Character they should visit the character forums which is better than this imo lol .

2. It cares to the people who uses this character and they want them back. Sure its DOA5U and that is different than DOAU but I mean something different lol.

3. lmao It matters how you use a character lol. Framedata is important but it would doesnt help you if you can use a character well. I give your a tip some framedata are not correct............ and yeah I punished someone loud framedata with a attack form 9+ and a attack form me with 16+

4. Sorry not everybody can be like Jaguar.... That what I was saying with learning the character with moves set ups etc.

And yes I can write like Jaguar I could write more than Jaguar because I have much more knowledge about him that is not the topic. The point is this thread wouldnt help. Wana learn a character go the character forums.


(beruhigt)

i want to start something serious and informative.

you are doing the exact opposite and it doesnt seem to me that you understood what this thread is about. seriously stop polluting this thread with your nonsense and take it to pm if you wanna clear something up.

 

[Nameless Sama]

 

[Jaguar360]

I understand Nameless. Not everyone likes to write walls of text summarizing their character, but summarizing is kind of my thing so I like to do this kind of stuff even if I'm not the best Hayabusa player.

I'm glad you liked my summary Dark_Ky. I'll be glad to do ones for Hayate, Alpha-152 and Leon, but those will probably need edits because I need to play them more extensively. I thought Squizzo's Brad summary was good too. It gave me more knowledge about Brad since I knew little about him previously. I hope your thread gets more success.

 

[Awesmic]

I couldn't help but notice two people getting bashed in this thread so far, but to hell with it, I won't be intimidated and contribute what I know anyway.

Christie

Offense (5/5): Christie has always been a character of an offensive nature, and since DOA5 this has been more apparent with her guard breaks (such as 4p+k, and JAK 44p), air juggle capability, her 3pp charge/hit-throw mixups, her cancelable strings to Jakeiho (JAK) stance, and throw mixups from 4t and 3p+kt. Because of this, some have called this character the "can opener" to Helena's "blender". While she has lost her full frame advantage from 4p+k regardless of charge length, she can still get that advantage from a full charge, and has gained a guard break from JAK 2kk (the second high kick), which is +14, and a guard break from her 3p+k. In addition, her 9p always leaves her at neutral advantage (or at 0) on hit or on block.

Holds/Defense in general (1/5) Christie's still a bit weak on holds, as all but her low punch hold (which can lead to damaging air juggles) are considered the weakest in the roster. She also doesn't have many options when backturned either, as her best options would be to either back away, use p+k, or use h+k (the latter two if you're anticipating high strikes or a move that's slower). The key to playing Christie effectively in this case would be to optimize your offense as much as possible while leaving little opportunity to get yourself in a defensive position.

Damage (5/5) Christie's damage potential shows greatly the lighter the weight class, as she primarily relies on opening up the opponent's defense to make mistakes and set them up for massive damage from an air juggle. She is especially strong with damage potential against breakable objects (particularly in the Home stage) and near the wall, as her 3ppp string is a decent combo ender near it, and furthermore, the 66t is a fearsome wall throw that can lead to a deadly mixup on wakeup. Christie has the option to keep the opponent grounded by using h+k to track the opponent if they step, or attempt a guard break if they don't and reset the situation all over again. This is a strategy that is recommended against heavier weight classes, as they are harder to juggle.

Zoning (3.5/4) I wasn't sure if this falls under evasion, so if it's not, then I'll correct this. Christie's JAK stance is an evasion tool all its own, and better than your average sidestep. It not only evades linear attacks, she crouches low in the stance, it can be used twice in succession, she can step backward from the stance and in this installment, can even roll from the backstep to utilize her rolling attacks from 3p+k. Such a powerful works wonders against the likes of heavily linear characters such as Kokoro and Akira. However, against certain characters who are also specialists at evasion and have plenty of tracking moves like Ayane, Lisa, or Brad Wong, this limits her effectiveness with the stance greatly, leaving her to stay at the toes of such opponents to gain the favor of the matchup.

Speed (2.5/3) Right off the bat, Christie is one of four characters with an initial 9-frame attack, with the others being Alpha-152, Kasumi, and Eliot (his is a single-hit stun). Added to her repertoire is a 3ppp string that not crushes highs, but can be charged to a guaranteed hit-throw (or a guard break on block at +2), or can be canceled into a natural combo to increase stun. While she arguably may not be as fast as Pai, Sarah, or Alpha-152 overall, she is still quite a difficult character to read in capable hands with the variable options she possesses.

Safeness (2/3) Compared to Vanilla DOA5, she has lost some strong wakeup options with the nerfed conditions of using her 2h+kp pseudo force tech to gain advantage on wakeup, and she also lost her guaranteed 4p from 4p+k (which previously ignored charge duration for full frame advantage). However, the available guard breaks she still has are safe on block. In addition to safe moves such as the standard p jab, 9p (which resets the advantage to 0 on hit or on block), and strings that are particularly safe against non-grapplers like the 3ppp and 66ppp string (uncharged), she has no other truly safe moves to speak of. She has to be careful in utilizing her other moves and canceling to the JAK stance when possible to avoid punishment.


Total: 20 / 25

 

[Jaguar360]

Leon

Offense (5/5) Constant guard breaks, and can take away 4/5s of an opponents off of 2-3 hits if played right.

Holds/Defense in general (5/5) Counters alone can annihilate an opponent in one or two hits, and they lead into his combo grapples more often than not.

Damage (5/5) Again. Can destroy an opponent in only 2-3 hits if you know how to use him.

Zoning (1/4) This....he's actually kinda meh at. Aside from a couple moves, his overall range is actually pretty short. His moves are generally slow with short reach, so he's not great at having to chase opponents.

Speed (1/3) Slow as hell, but I like it that way. Makes me work for my damage, and oh so satisfying to get that perfect read to land a high counter Arm Grenade, Dervish Throw, or Desert Falcon without at setups to make up for its slowness.

Safeness (1.5/3) Not really sure how to describe it. He's slow, predictable, with short range, but this is made up for the fact that most of his moves guard break, combo grapple, and destroy opponents in literally seconds if they do land.

Total: 18.5 / 25

Mila


Offense (5/5) Simple, practical, and brutal. Shes straightforward and a tad predictable, but so efficient that it doesn't matter.

Holds/Defense in general (4/5) a good chunk of her holds, and specifically, the ones that will be used the most, lead right back into her main offense, the mount tackle. So her counters are equally as deadly as her offense.

Damage 3/5 Her actual attacks, by themselves, are minor damage at best. But the versatility and efficiency of her moves more than compensate for this. As I don't juggle or string much, I still find her to absolutely wreck people.

Zoning 4/5 She lacks the mobility of faster characters, but her overhead wheel kick and back roundhouse have insane reach, as do certain punches of hers. I find it easy enough to zone with her.

Speed 4/5 Can't match the speed of the ninjas without abusing stun, but the fact that her fighting style is so practical makes her punches seem faster because unlike most others, she's not doing some big flashy sweeping motion, she just makes her move.

Safeness 3/5 Without abusing stun or juggles, she's not all that safe, but that actually works in her favor, because it acts as psychological bait on the opponent, which lets her get them in the mount tackle easier, and more.

23/25

You did a good job on most, put I must disagree with Leon's defense. His holds are his only defensive tools and even they are not the best. If anyone deserves a 5 in this category it would be Bayman, Leifang, and maybe Hayabusa. Defense constitutes of expert holds, parries, and evasion, which Leon has none of. In these areas, the above characters beat him out along with Tina, Hitomi, Kasumi, and Ayane. Leon is probably around 3.5 in this category. Pretty much nailed everything else though.

For Mila, I think you may be overselling her range compared to other characters like Ein, Hayate, Busa, Ayane, Brad, Christie, Kasumi, Jahn Lee, Rig, etc. but you probably know more than me about Mila. Don't forget that the last three categories for Mila are out of 4, 3, and 3 respectively.

 

[Argentus]

You did a good job on most, put I must disagree with Leon's defense. His holds are his only defensive tools and even they are not the best. If anyone deserves a 5 in this category it would be Bayman, Leifang, and maybe Hayabusa. Defense constitutes of expert holds, parries, and evasion, which Leon has none of. In these areas, the above characters beat him out along with Tina, Hitomi, Kasumi, and Ayane. Leon is probably around 3.5 in this category. Pretty much nailed everything else though.

For Mila, I think you may be overselling her range compared to other characters like Ein, Hayate, Busa, Ayane, Brad, Christie, Kasumi, Jahn Lee, Rig, etc. but you probably know more than me about Mila. Don't forget that the last three categories for Mila are out of 4, 3, and 3 respectively.

While its true Leon doesn't have much in the way of evasion, so many of his big slams can be delayed/charged, which makes him great for psyching out and trapping incoming opponents, so I factor that into his defense.

And for the last, i'll make her scores 3/4, 2/3, and 1.5/3, respectively.

 

[NightAntilli]

Character: Leifang

Offense (2/5) She simply has a hard time getting inside her opponents. She lost all her great advantage from DOA5 in DOA5U, with moves like 6F+K and 1P+K. To charge her attacks for additional advantage and so on means getting hit in the face most of the time. Her best mix-up moves are from Unshu, and that's easy to punish if you know how. Her best offensive tools are the offensive holds. She has a lot of trouble dealing with sidestepping opponents, especially the likes of Christie, Helena and Mila since her stand-alone circular attacks are all highs, making her whiff, and usually not having enough time for the mid circular to hit first. Her offense is good once her opponent is stunned, but stunning the opponent with her attacks is the problem.

Holds/Defense in general (5/5) Her defense is off the charts. She has the best defense period. Sabakis, parries, holds, evasiveness.. She does not lack in this department at all. Although she has a lot of crushes, she's weak in the low crush department, and some characters like Ayane outdo her still in that regard. Her best offense will more often than not start with a defensive action. Her mid kick hold, her mid parry, her punch parry, her sabakis, are all necessary tools to play her effectively.

Damage (3.5/5) Most of her damage comes from her defense, although her offense is not bad either in terms of damage. She can get quite a bit of damage off on pretty much anyone on the cast. Her advanced holds are nice, and her juggle damage is more than respectable. A character like Kokoro, Leon, Rachel etc beats her easily in the damage department, but she's not the worst, and she doesn't have to rely on bursts or long juggles for damage.

Zoning (2/4) Although she has grabs to put the opponent at any place she wants, she simply can not deal with opponents at long range. She has to wait for the opponent to close in so that she can be effective. Her long range moves are either slow or unsafe. This means that your zoning will be you adapting to the opponent, rather than make the opponent adapt to you. You have to make sure you're not where you don't want to be, rather than putting the opponent where you want them to be.

Speed (2/3) She's ok in terms of speed. Her short range moves are speedy enough to deal with opponents up close. There isn't much to say here really.

Safeness (1.5/3) Most of her safe moves are either extremely slow, or are highs. The majority of her moves are simply unsafe, and she really doesn't have that many options for mix-up during her strings to compensate.

Total: 16 / 25

 

[QueenJakheiho]

I couldn't help but notice two people getting bashed in this thread so far, but to hell with it, I won't be intimidated and contribute what I know anyway.

Christie

Offense (5/5): Christie has always been a character of an offensive nature, and since DOA5 this has been more apparent with her guard breaks (such as 4p+k, and JAK 44p), air juggle capability, her 3pp charge/hit-throw mixups, her cancelable strings to Jakeiho (JAK) stance, and throw mixups from 4t and 3p+kt. Because of this, some have called this character the "can opener" to Helena's "blender". While she has lost her full frame advantage from 4p+k regardless of charge length, she can still get that advantage from a full charge, and has gained a guard break from JAK 2kk (the second high kick), which is +14, and a guard break from her 3p+k. In addition, her 9p always leaves her at neutral advantage (or at 0) on hit or on block.

Holds/Defense in general (1/5) Christie's still a bit weak on holds, as all but her low punch hold (which can lead to damaging air juggles) are considered the weakest in the roster. She also doesn't have many options when backturned either, as her best options would be to either back away, use p+k, or use h+k (the latter two if you're anticipating high strikes or a move that's slower). The key to playing Christie effectively in this case would be to optimize your offense as much as possible while leaving little opportunity to get yourself in a defensive position.

Damage (5/5) Christie's damage potential shows greatly the lighter the weight class, as she primarily relies on opening up the opponent's defense to make mistakes and set them up for massive damage from an air juggle. She is especially strong with damage potential against breakable objects (particularly in the Home stage) and near the wall, as her 3ppp string is a decent combo ender near it, and furthermore, the 66t is a fearsome wall throw that can lead to a deadly mixup on wakeup. Christie has the option to keep the opponent grounded by using h+k to track the opponent if they step, or attempt a guard break if they don't and reset the situation all over again. This is a strategy that is recommended against heavier weight classes, as they are harder to juggle.

Zoning (3.5/4) I wasn't sure if this falls under evasion, so if it's not, then I'll correct this. Christie's JAK stance is an evasion tool all its own, and better than your average sidestep. It not only evades linear attacks, she crouches low in the stance, it can be used twice in succession, she can step backward from the stance and in this installment, can even roll from the backstep to utilize her rolling attacks from 3p+k. Such a powerful works wonders against the likes of heavily linear characters such as Kokoro and Akira. However, against certain characters who are also specialists at evasion and have plenty of tracking moves like Ayane, Lisa, or Brad Wong, this limits her effectiveness with the stance greatly, leaving her to stay at the toes of such opponents to gain the favor of the matchup.

Speed (2.5/3) Right off the bat, Christie is one of four characters with an initial 9-frame attack, with the others being Alpha-152, Kasumi, and Eliot (his is a single-hit stun). Added to her repertoire is a 3ppp string that not crushes highs, but can be charged to a guaranteed hit-throw (or a guard break on block at +2), or can be canceled into a natural combo to increase stun. While she arguably may not be as fast as Pai, Sarah, or Alpha-152 overall, she is still quite a difficult character to read in capable hands with the variable options she possesses.

Safeness (2/3) Compared to Vanilla DOA5, she has lost some strong wakeup options with the nerfed conditions of using her 2h+kp pseudo force tech to gain advantage on wakeup, and she also lost her guaranteed 4p from 4p+k (which previously ignored charge duration for full frame advantage). However, the available guard breaks she still has are safe on block. In addition to safe moves such as the standard p jab, 9p (which resets the advantage to 0 on hit or on block), and strings that are particularly safe against non-grapplers like the 3ppp and 66ppp string (uncharged), she has no other truly safe moves to speak of. She has to be careful in utilizing her other moves and canceling to the JAK stance when possible to avoid punishment.


Total: 20 / 25

That is nearly a perfect a description! To zoning i want add had some very good range moves besides from the stance with 9kk, 66k, 236p, 214p, 8pp

Safeness: The most nerf for my playstyle is the Jak1k6k in vanilla was this move pure golden, a low hit and a middle kick hit from stance leads leads into a deep stun. Now we have -10 on block. As counter hit is this move still great or in addition with 3k - jak1k6k or 6k - jak1k6k on neutral hit. And i agree the 2h+k2p pseudo FT nerf also hurts.

 

[Brute]

Jaguar did a pretty decent job with Ryu, but I'd like to point out one or two things.

Speed (1.5/3) As a whole, he outspeeds Bass, Leon, Bayman, Rachel and Brad and just about ties with Tina, Lisa, and maybe Gen Fu.

Lisa has an i12 mid and low mix-ups from most of her strings that are +on NH, allowing you to build an offense from your faster attacks even against a guarding opponent.
Gen Fu has an i11 mid. He shouldn't but he does.
Rachel has an i11 high, but her i13 mid and jab string give her WAY better options against blocks than either of Ryu's. For only one extra frame on the jab, you're looking at a plethora of better options. I mean, looking at mid-to-low +on NH mix-up speeds, compare Rachel's 4PP2P with Ryu's 3K2K
So imo, he's not really faster than all the characters you listed.

Safeness (1/3) His only regular guard breaks are :[p+k]:, , and

1KchargeP and ongyoin PPP/BT P+KPP work, too.
It's such a shame he lost so much from vanilla. KK, 4PK/PP4PK, and even 4P+K, 66K etc. gave you more FA than they do now. Damn TN...

i doesnt matter how "well" you use your character. if the framedata says your unsafe your unsafe. this is drawback you may compensate with good play but that doesent change the fact the character is in on paper punishable.

Well, sometimes framedata lies (see Mila's tackle breaks in vanilla).
What I think he means is that some characters are better at getting around how unsafe they are due to delays, mix-ups, crushes/speed etc. Take Hitomi for instance. She's not super-safe, but that's not a huge issue for her, but a good Hitomi player doesn't finish their strings. You keep people guessing constantly because she has so many low mix-ups that are +on NH, absurd string delays, reset throws, etc.
That said I don't really agree with Nameless because Hayabusa has a difficult time utilizing those things. His biggest advantage getting around his unsafe frames is definitely the ongyoin parry, and extremely risky option.

Safeness (1.5/3) Not really sure how to describe it. He's slow, predictable, with short range, but this is made up for the fact that most of his moves guard break, combo grapple, and destroy opponents in literally seconds if they do land.

Leon has tons of guard breaks and strings that leave him at only -1. He's very safe. Wtf is this 1.5 nonsense?

For Mila, I think you may be overselling her range compared to other characters like Ein, Hayate, Busa, Ayane, Brad, Christie, Kasumi, Jahn Lee, Rig, etc. but you probably know more than me about Mila. Don't forget that the last three categories for Mila are out of 4, 3, and 3 respectively.

Mila's range is insane in the right hands. Something-Unique will show you that.

mila is godlike now lol.

indeed.

 

[Jaguar360]

Jaguar did a pretty decent job with Ryu, but I'd like to point out one or two things.


Lisa has an i12 mid and low mix-ups from most of her strings that are +on NH, allowing you to build an offense from your faster attacks even against a guarding opponent.
Gen Fu has an i11 mid. He shouldn't but he does.
Rachel has an i11 high, but her i13 mid and jab string give her WAY better options against blocks than either of Ryu's. For only one extra frame on the jab, you're looking at a plethora of better options. I mean, looking at mid-to-low +on NH mix-up speeds, compare Rachel's 4PP2P with Ryu's 3K2K
So imo, he's not really faster than all the characters you listed.

Yeah, I knew I was doing something wrong by putting Gen Fu up there. Not too familiar to be honest. Haven't really faced Rachel yet so I'll take your word for your comments on her. Considering Lisa's your secondary or tertiary character, I'll take your word for her as well. Would you say it would be a good idea to remove Gen Fu and Lisa and put Rachel as a tie character?

1KchargeP and ongyoin PPP/BT P+KPP work, too.
It's such a shame he lost so much from vanilla. KK, 4PK/PP4PK, and even 4P+K, 66K etc. gave you more FA than they do now. Damn TN...

Well, I just wanted to include ones that were out of stance, so I'll add 1K[P]. I'll reference Ongyoin PPP/BT P+KPP too since they're pretty important.

Mila's range is insane in the right hands. Something-Unique will show you that.

OK. Is it like her 3H+K, 66K, 4K, 7K, etc.? I was just wondering how good it was compared to certain other characters to give that high of a score. Argentus is probably right though, especially now that I think about it a bit more.