Characters Rig's fastest kick of 9f

AlexXsWx

Active Member
Did you know that Rig's :K: from his Bending Stance is as fast as Christie's :P:? (Steam Ver.1.07)
The game says it's 1 frame slower, but it's not true, because for some reason moves from Bending stance do not take 1 initial extra frame, unlike all the other moves I know (e.g. including Brad Wong's :P: from his Dokuritsu-Ho / Flamingo stance)

The Christie's jab with frame data of 9 (2) 13 takes 1 initial extra frame + 9 frames of windup and so becomes active on the next two frames - 11th and 12th.
The Rig's kick with frame data of 10 (3) 22 does not have the initial extra frame, what makes its active frames to be 11th, 12th and 13th - as fast as Christie's jab, so it's pretty much a 9f kick.
It's easy to check - Rig's :1::K::K: is +0 on block. If you go in training and set Christie to act with guard and react with high punch, you will constantly get mutual counter on performing :1::K::K::5::K: (you need to whiff first hit though, or Christie will get countered on 2nd hit instead of blocking it).

How did I find this out?

In Master's stream about hidden frame data he showed a way to get "real" frame data by using holds. I improved this to be a bit more clean and easier.
Go in free training, take whatever character you like, put Zack to be your opponent and select the DOJO stage.
Record Zack to perform Zack Beam (:236::236::H+P+K:) and set it to playback.
Keep your character as far as possible, and guard the Zack Beam. This should give you constant +87 advantage (unless you got too close). Now you can perform moves you are interested in right after the guard break, and see how much do they really take (including the initial extra frames).
That's how I noticed that moves from Bending stance do not have the extra frame.

Can someone explain me why there is this extra frame and why it's not there for Rig's moves from Bending stance? I mean, I think it's a bug, but I'd like to hear opinions on what caused it.
 

WAZAAAAA

Well-Known Member
Rig's Bending Stance K is not 9 frames, the game is confusing you with a glitch.

The reason :1::K::K::5::K: trades with Christie's :P: is caused by the same glitch that makes "Unholdables" exist.
What really happens to Christie while coming out of the 19 frames of blockstun (caused by blocking Rig's-Bending-Stance-K) is the following:
1) 19 frames of blockstun
2) 1 idle frame (during which you can only block or not block)
3) 9 startup frames of P

TL;DR
:1::K::K::5::K: is actually +1 because Unholdables.
 
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AlexXsWx

Active Member
I just had a look on a recording at 60fps and you're right, it's not 9f.

Rig has a :4::K: move from Back turned stance. It ends with Standing stance and is +0 on block.
When I try to followup it with :P:, I can see the idle frame just before the punch.

However, the idle frame isn't present after :1::K::K:, and I think this applies to all other moves that end with Bending stance. It looks like system considers these moves as continuation of a string, therefore skipping the idle frame. This effectively means "advantage" data for such moves can be increased by 1.

What's interesting, is that Brad Wong also has similar stance, Dokuritsu-Ho - but he still got the idle frame after that.
 

WAZAAAAA

Well-Known Member
However, the idle frame isn't present after :1::K::K:, and I think this applies to all other moves that end with Bending stance. It looks like system considers these moves as continuation of a string, therefore skipping the idle frame. This effectively means "advantage" data for such moves can be increased by 1.
That's an excellent observation, stance attacks don't seem to be affected by this because they don't normally transition back into idle.

I'm going to test Dokuritsu-Ho's stuff
 

WAZAAAAA

Well-Known Member
Helena's Bokuho 6KK also idles.
Looks like Rig is an exception? Also Leifang's 6P > 4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P... doesn't idle
 
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AlexXsWx

Active Member
I think so. I don't know many characters in detail, but Rig so far had the most issues with displaying correct frame data related to his stances.
 
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