I think that Alpha is at such a disadvantage on wake up that she could use wuks. What do you guys think should happen with Alpha in Last Round?
Characters Should Alpha have wake-up-kicks in Last Round?
- Thread starter deathofaninja
- Start date
Pictured Mind
Well-Known Member
No.
Tenren
Well-Known Member
I'm 50/50 on it. Most people bitch she over powered when really at this point she's been nerf'd to hell n back. But I've also gotten use to her not having it. Being able to float as she wakes up can cause a lot to miss her. I also tend to catch people a lot with her special wake up attack. Most people either forget she has it or they don't think your going to throw it out. Her entire game play comes down to mind games. People are afraid to hold high against her due to her high throw punish. Which they also cry about, but forget that fact you can juggle her for the same amount of damage if you know what your doing. In the end I guess it really comes down I've gotten use to not having it. Suddenly having one probably wouldn't change how I played her
Intelligent Alpha
Well-Known Member
You're gonna get alot of no's, but wait, people already know how to deal with the one she already has! Wall teleports? Mash to avoid the animation or mash to beat out the cross up! It's that damn simple! She already has enough kicks - don't give her anymore!
OTOH, if people love teleport-spamming with Phase 4, a shitload of wakeup moves wouldn't hurt Alpha! Even with all the new shit added (read: nothing), she's still terrible! Even Xblades failed, but looked better with Helena! She needn't be outplayed at all to be beaten - that's sad!
OTOH, if people love teleport-spamming with Phase 4, a shitload of wakeup moves wouldn't hurt Alpha! Even with all the new shit added (read: nothing), she's still terrible! Even Xblades failed, but looked better with Helena! She needn't be outplayed at all to be beaten - that's sad!
KING JAIMY
Well-Known Member
People spamming teleports with Phase 4? No way! Those teleports are a pain to do. I think 152 is balanced the way she is now. She's not designed to have wake-up kicks. And you think BladeZ failed with 152? I don't think so, just because he lost with her doesn't mean he failed.
BladeZ did not fail in any way. The person who he lost against as Alpha clearly knew the match-up well. Either way, I don't know 152 well enough to decide whether she should have WUKs or not.
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Intelligent Alpha
Well-Known Member
The timing excuse? DOAN gave an easier way to do it! Still it's hard to do? Why pretail is one basic (if you can call it that) combo on Alpha full of P+K? I played a match yesterday, and if that player was not at all desperate. That's like me bursting every two seconds. (AMMOF, I even said, give Alpha the necksnap part and let her do it multiple times before finishing it off with BURST and have this shit work on everybody!
for the snap, for the throw. Akin, to Rachael's ) [(x9) )She wasn't designed to have WUKs, then explain why she has one?
And no, he didn't fail, he did very well. Even I said he should have stuck with Helena!
@CrimsonWarrior: Find me online!
KING JAIMY
Well-Known Member
I don't think you've ever played DOA 4 did you, 152 had NO wake-ups there. Even not the special one she has now.The timing excuse? DOAN gave an easier way to do it! Still it's hard to do? Why pretail is one basic (if you can call it that) combo on Alpha full of P+K? I played a match yesterday, and if that player was not at all desperate. That's like me bursting every two seconds. (AMMOF, I even said, give Alpha the necksnap part and let her do it multiple times before finishing it off with BURST and have this shit work on everybody!
She wasn't designed to have WUKs, then explain why she has one?
And no, he didn't fail, he did very well. Even I said he should have stuck with Helena!
@CrimsonWarrior: Find me online!
Why do I feel 152 doesn't need them? Look at it this way: Every character has their pros and cons. For Alpha, it would be the following:
Pros:
+ High damage output with strikes
+ High damage output with throws
+ Very long movestrings with lots of mix-ups
+ Three CB's that hit at three different hit levels
+ Much combo potential.
Cons:
- Featherweight.
- Technically no holds with damage (the holds which DO damage are called parries)
- Not much guaranteed combos
- No wake-up kicks.
Removing cons or adding pros changes the character, buffing them and possibly making them overpowered.
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synce
Well-Known Member
I don't think she'll be buffed since most of TN's staff are the kind of noobs that would call Alpha cheap, even though her defense is non-existant and her offense isn't even that great. I'd much rather play vs Alpha than Christie or Helena
Anyway I already told TN several times that they fucked up Alpha's balance but they always ignore the tweets. Her first iteration was perfectly fine, it made sense that a character with no defense had scary offense. She kinda reminded me of Dark Phoenix
Anyway I already told TN several times that they fucked up Alpha's balance but they always ignore the tweets. Her first iteration was perfectly fine, it made sense that a character with no defense had scary offense. She kinda reminded me of Dark Phoenix
Pictured Mind
Well-Known Member
I'm pretty curious why you think that. Care to explain?
Intelligent Alpha
Well-Known Member
Hold up! I haven't played DOA4? I'm gonna pretend I didn't hear that!
I bitched just as much as everybody else in 4, but she was a BOSS - it's common for them to have an unfair advantage (and that's putting it nicely).But wait! She's been nerfed to hell and back! Why is this falling on deaf ears? Imagaine if somebody had crazy defense, but no offense? Would you not bitch? I bet you would since the game says: "Defense is not an option - unless it's agaunst Alpha!" Even so, what do most people do?
One of my coaches (and I didn't argue) said to just be "balls out reckless with her!" pretty much! To anybody who thinks this is a smart - I said smart, not hard - don't get it twisted - it's not! Just like Phase 4. if Alpha comes across somebody who is a stalwart defensively - asinine blocking, working that counter-whore jive - she is just as fucked as somebody who's straight up bull-rushing her ass! But she's supposed to bull-rush back as if there aren't any risks just because the rewards are awesome while they aren't thinking about it! I just noted what they were, but I have to play recklessly just because! I don't believe that -- nor should you or anybody else!
The AI version in 4 wasn't hard, people just got frustrated and ragequit until somebody found an exploit! Survival Legend was the same way (pre-patch), but some would still rely on exploits to beat it despite it being too easy now!
Here's some FFT: she got nerfed hard offensively, but folks still QQ though they can breathe on her to beat her - and here's the other thing: who plays her makes no difference! Whether its Xblades or me, but people say I'm easier to play cause they bullrush me; yet, somehow it's much more difficult to do that against him! It's the same character - different rules needn't apply. He's eons better than I, but he went through what I frequently do, so to say his Alpha is harder to beat than mine is asinine!
KING JAIMY
Well-Known Member
I'm having a hard time making sense of this post, but that could be because English isn't my native langugage.Hold up! I haven't played DOA4? I'm gonna pretend I didn't hear that!
But wait! She's been nerfed to hell and back! Why is this falling on deaf ears? Imagaine if somebody had crazy defense, but no offense? Would you not bitch? I bet you would since the game says: "Defense is not an option - unless it's agaunst Alpha!" Even so, what do most people do?
One of my coaches (and I didn't argue) said to just be "balls out reckless with her!" pretty much! To anybody who thinks this is a smart - I said smart, not hard - don't get it twisted - it's not! Just like Phase 4. if Alpha comes across somebody who is a stalwart defensively - asinine blocking, working that counter-whore jive - she is just as fucked as somebody who's straight up bull-rushing her ass! But she's supposed to bull-rush back as if there aren't any risks just because the rewards are awesome while they aren't thinking about it! I just noted what they were, but I have to play recklessly just because! I don't believe that -- nor should you or anybody else!
The AI version in 4 wasn't hard, people just got frustrated and ragequit until somebody found an exploit! Survival Legend was the same way (pre-patch), but some would still rely on exploits to beat it despite it being too easy now!
Here's some FFT: she got nerfed hard offensively, but folks still QQ though they can breathe on her to beat her - and here's the other thing: who plays her makes no difference! Whether its Xblades or me, but people say I'm easier to play cause they bullrush me; yet, somehow it's much more difficult to do that against him! It's the same character - different rules needn't apply. He's eons better than I, but he went through what I frequently do, so to say his Alpha is harder to beat than mine is asinine!
What message are you exactly trying to convey?
Intelligent Alpha
Well-Known Member
Apparently, most think her Pros outweigh her Cons. To me, this is not true! However, I'm neither saying her cons outweigh her Pros, but you don't realize how easy she can actually be beaten!
I hear this shit, too much (and other Alpha players, too) - "You want easy ass wins! You damn scrub! Pick a real character!" Yet, you're on her ass 24/7 because it's easy to do! Who wants the easy win? Who actually gets easy wins? It's a struggle with Alpha even if she does spam her strongest throw all game long! But Helena (who I also use) can spam windmills, etc. and she's dog-tired afterwards since it was a hard fight!
I'm struggling to figure out how it's said: "Watch out! This Alpha's defensive!" when this ought not be the case since I can't be this way with this character. And by being defensive I don't mean, parrying like a motherfucker because when I started off like that, it fucked me up! People laughed at this, then, but are just incredibly annoyed since I don't guess now! (Normal holds do nothing; parry is useless unless you're near a wall due to the KB property) And the irony, I make them guess out the ass now and they pay dearly when they guess wrong!
Yet, I start all of this playing defensively first: Blocking, Baiting, Spacing, Poking, Footsies, Conditioning. IOW, I'm patient as fuck - whether I win or lose! But I'm not supposed to do that with Alpha just because. I'm compensating for her Cons, by turning them into pros, so I can utilize her actual Pros! (ie: Throw baiting. By blocking - as a hold or parry won't work and it being unsafe - if you mash out something unsafe and you better not mash out a hold ...)
This is what I mean! Everyone else can go 50/50 whenever they so please, but Alpha has to go 100/0 because people believe the 0 part of this kills her. It does if she has no clue how to compensate, but she doesn't have to go in the complete opposite direction to compensate!
I find out highly ironic, that I can get all kinds of advice from other Alpha players; yet, they never ask me for any tips. I'm talking the vet semi-vet players. I'm always giving tips to new players - those wanting to use her or play against her. You mean to tell me - despite you being a better Alpha player than I - there's not one thing you noticed or think you can throw into your game? Is my play-style that bad? (I've heard it as unique/weird/annoying, too. Same goes with Helena)
KING JAIMY
Well-Known Member
Honestly, I agree with you that Alpha takes skill to win with. Some of her combos are pretty complex and timing dependent. It's just the fact that Alpha is lag-heavy, which means people will hate her more quickly.
I still think Alpha is balanced and not underpowered, she doesn't need anymore nerfs though. Team Ninja should devote more attention to buffing some characters (e.g. Eliot, Ein, Phase 4) and nerfing other characters (e.g. Christie, Gen Fu). In my opinion they should leave 152 alone.
Intelligent Alpha
Well-Known Member
Lag heavy? If you mean with the complaint of lag when a player not using Alpha loses to her? That is garbage! (Prove me wrong in a mirror match!) She is just as fucked in lag like everybody else! You can't exactly use that frame data/lag meme with Alpha like you can Christie! Yet, I often hear how fucked up Phase 4 is, but blame TN for thinking a VF "faux" character would work! People already state how difficult Akira is to use (and quite dangerous at that). Both characters by popular opinion are useless in lag though! Just saying!
Alpha by no means under-powered or OP, but try telling someone that Phase 4 and Kasumi are weak and folks will be throwing darts! Like you said, it's just the hate talking!
Btw, I wasn't intending to blow up at you. I just think folks revel now that it's easy to beat her and how she (no matter how good the player is) now struggle to beat the other characters. The other characters struggle, too, but the level of hate/disrespect is nowhere near as high as it is against Alpha. I wonder how she managed to get fans and players behind her?
*shrugs*
That's actually not happening. That was an AI that did that.
People that still struggle with Alpha... well I laugh at them... which is still roughly 90% of this community.
Why laugh? When a computer AI or expert player uses her properly, she's difficult to beat. That's why I'm guessing she never appears on legend arcade mode. I dont really have issues with her, because she's so predictable and defenseless, but you can't just laugh at people who aren't used to fighting her....she was a nightmare in DOA4