Sidestepping needs a buff or be removed

Excalibur

New Member
It's unsafe. It rarely ever works because of the insane amount of tracking, Ayane being a perfect example of it. Even when you successfully do it, it hardly feels like a success because all the opponent has to do is button mash and the next attack will hit you before you can defend. It needs to be an actual thing that works.
 

Grimace

Member
Main Character
Raidou
PSN ID
Japa_Grimace
Watch summer jam 9 or the japanese finals recently and you'll see many cases of when you can utilize side stepping to give yourself good options.
Just because you sidestep an attack doesn't mean you are at a good spot, it's up to you to correctly sidestep an attack that puts you at an advantage.
Failing to do that, or throwing them out randomly is just as bad (Or potentially worse) than just throwing out random holds over and over.
 

virtuaPAI

I am the reason why you are here!!!
Staff member
Administrator
Brooklyn, New York
Main Character
Tina Armstrong
Gamertag
Virtuapai
Watch summer jam 9 or the japanese finals recently and you'll see many cases of when you can utilize side stepping to give yourself good options.
Just because you sidestep an attack doesn't mean you are at a good spot, it's up to you to correctly sidestep an attack that puts you at an advantage.
Failing to do that, or throwing them out randomly is just as bad (Or potentially worse) than just throwing out random holds over and over.
-This is the absolute truth!!! I have been the Pioneer of Free Step Dodge/Evade back with DOA3(DOA3.1) back in 2001/2002...That was around 14 or so years ago! Also, that gameplay technique had an even stricter evade timing and was not as universal as the standard Side Step/Evade we currently have!!!

-We as a community continue to be attacked to this day about DOA5 Last Round still being a simplistic fighter in comparison to that of say VF! Um well we need to stop freaking complaining about techniques and gameplay elements not being relatively easy to implement during play, and simply step up our game and community skill set to where such elements are no longer a pseudo burden
 

WAZAAAAA

Well-Known Member
-This is the absolute truth!!! I have been the Pioneer of Free Step Dodge/Evade back with DOA3(DOA3.1) back in 2001/2002...That was around 14 or so years ago! Also, that gameplay technique had an even stricter evade timing and was not as universal as the standard Side Step/Evade we currently have!!!
Stricter timing in DOA3? :hayate: :8: :P+K:
 

KING JAIMY

Well-Known Member
Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Main Character
Rig
Gamertag
KING JAIMY
3DS Friend Code
5086-3025-4977
PSN ID
King_Jaimy
Steam
KING JAIMY
Sidesteps work fine. No need to buff them nor remove them. If sidesteps are not working for you, however, this can be caused by a couple of reasons:

1) A tracking move or throw stuffs your sidestep.
2) A re-tracking string (i.e. the string is linear but the second hit of the string stuffs the sidestep because the strike hits you in the recovery frames of the sidestep. Most characters' PP work this way).
3) Your timing is off.

Also, sidesteps shouldn't be thrown out randomly. You have to make a read and predict when a linear move is coming. Then retaliate with a sidestep attack.
 

virtuaPAI

I am the reason why you are here!!!
Staff member
Administrator
Brooklyn, New York
Main Character
Tina Armstrong
Gamertag
Virtuapai
Stricter timing in DOA3? :hayate: :8: :P+K:
- You are correct with Doa3.1's hayate(need to clarify as the 3 versions of DOA3 available have significant differences in their effectiveness in both Side Stepping and FSD. With 3.0 being moderate, 3.1 being very good and 3.2 being utter shit!). With that said you are confusing command step, side step attacks and FSD! You may review how it operated within this thread: http://www.freestepdodge.com/threads/free-stepping-in-doa3-1.116/

-Also I was referring to that of DOA3's FSD mechanics and not side step. FSD has a far stricter timing and effective window. Unlike either command or just regular step, FSD have no active frames for evasion, thus a player must have an acute awareness of exactly when during the breif window they can step, otherwise the player will be hit right out of FSD! Hayates :8: :P::+::K: would be considered a Command Step, akin to that of Rachels's :8: :P::+::K:. Both have lenient timing, however Hayate's is straight up over powered lol!!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: WAZAAAAA

Excalibur

New Member
Sidesteps work fine. No need to buff them nor remove them. If sidesteps are not working for you, however, this can be caused by a couple of reasons:

1) A tracking move or throw stuffs your sidestep.
2) A re-tracking string (i.e. the string is linear but the second hit of the string stuffs the sidestep because the strike hits you in the recovery frames of the sidestep. Most characters' PP work this way).
3) Your timing is off.

Also, sidesteps shouldn't be thrown out randomly. You have to make a read and predict when a linear move is coming. Then retaliate with a sidestep attack.
Dodging the first attack isn't the issue. It's the fact a two-three hit combo will hit even if you dodge the first attack and you cannot block it. There needs to be less tracking. Iv seen EVO tournament videos, all the pro players get punished when using it, which mind you they rarely do. Just look at VF sidestepping, Soul Calibur sidestepping. Can you really say this games SS is actually safe?
 

Grimace

Member
Main Character
Raidou
PSN ID
Japa_Grimace
All I'm hearing is "I refuse to listen to the other people here and get better at this game, please buff SS so I don't have to work to use it"

Lock this up boys it's over
 

iHajinShinobi

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
California
Main Character
Ayane
No, all the 'pro players' do not get punished for side stepping. You get punished if you did it incorrectly. All there is to it.

You are ignoring what Grimace, VirtuaPai and King Kaimy have mentioned. You need to predict and react with a side step against a particular move that is linear in order to make your side step successful. The side step is one of the most in-depth mechanics in the game, due to the fact that you must study each move of each character in order to know when you can successfully side step something.

You're getting counter hit often when you attempt a side step because you are not utilizing it correctly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tokiopewpew

Excalibur

New Member
All I'm hearing is "I refuse to listen to the other people here and get better at this game, please buff SS so I don't have to work to use it"

Lock this up boys it's over
Really? Because all I see is you making claims with no evidence. Here lemme link you a video that clearly proves SS is not good.


Skip to 13:40 and wait about 10-12 seconds and you will see MC static attempt to utilize a sidestep. He get's punished for it even with perfect timing.
 

iHajinShinobi

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
California
Main Character
Ayane
He side stepped an unfinished (and delayed) string, the 7PKK, and hit a button late after side stepping (which wasn't a side step attack, he attempted 6P). Again, this doesn't prove side step is inefficient, it shows the player made a mistake after a successful side step.

The side step is one of the most in-depth mechanics in the game, due to the fact that you must study each move of each character in order to know when you can successfully side step something.
 

Matt Ponton

Owner
Staff member
Administrator
Glen Burnie, MD
Main Character
Mai Shiranui
Gamertag
Sorwah
PSN ID
Sorwah
Steam
Sorwah
He side stepped an unfinished (and delayed) string, the 7PKK, and hit a button late after side stepping (which wasn't a side step attack, he attempted 6P). Again, this doesn't prove side step is inefficient, it shows the player made a mistake after a successful side step.
Yes, that's an accurate description of what happened. He even goes into guard state before attempting the 6P but didn't realize Helena's string was over.
 

Excalibur

New Member
He side stepped an unfinished (and delayed) string, the 7PKK, and hit a button late after side stepping (which wasn't a side step attack, he attempted 6P). Again, this doesn't prove side step is inefficient, it shows the player made a mistake after a successful side step.
I don't think it shows it's very effective either by itself. It only accomplishes something when you attack during it, otherwise you cannot defend at the end of it. So all the sidestep is good for is setting up an attack. Thus it only serves to be another offensive technique when it's traditionally supposed to be another way to defend.

Very nice observation by the way.
 

Matt Ponton

Owner
Staff member
Administrator
Glen Burnie, MD
Main Character
Mai Shiranui
Gamertag
Sorwah
PSN ID
Sorwah
Steam
Sorwah
I don't think it shows it's very effective either by itself. It only accomplishes something when you attack during it, otherwise you cannot defend at the end of it. So all the sidestep is good for is setting up an attack. Thus it only serves to be another offensive technique when it's traditionally supposed to be another way to defend.

Very nice observation by the way.
In that instance, he could have guarded or sidestepped the attack that hit him after his first successful side step. Had he also done as sidestep attack he would have counter-hit the Steady.

The side step is useful as a defensive technique where you have a string where the next attack options for the attacker are all linear, better if it's at the end of a string. The attack options can vary on height making it difficult to defensive hold the attacks, so opting for a sidestep to avoid all of the options is a good way to avoid being pushed into disadvantage and mount a counter-attack.

Additionally, there are some higher advanced options to the sidestep system where for example if you press :H+P: after performing the side step you'll auto-break any :H+P: attempt by the opponent, providing a simple option select because if you're not neutral thrown then you'll just finish out the side step animation safely.
 

iHajinShinobi

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
California
Main Character
Ayane
I don't think it shows it's very effective either by itself. It only accomplishes something when you attack during it, otherwise you cannot defend at the end of it. So all the sidestep is good for is setting up an attack. Thus it only serves to be another offensive technique when it's traditionally supposed to be another way to defend.
No, he side stepped successfully and chose to take the risk of doing something differently after already making the right decision (the successful side step). He could have actually blocked or held the follow up after side stepping the low in Helena's 7PKK. That is the player's fault, not the game. Your argument in saying the side step is isn't an effective defensive option comes from you and other players (the video as the example) not actually taking your time to understand what and when it is appropriate to side step a move.

The video also does not help your argument, because the player actually side stepped correctly (which is the point of the thread subject, making good use of the side step) but his follow up action was a rather late reaction.

If a game has a certain mechanic that is very deep, players are required to study it so they can understand it. By not doing so, you will not make anything out of it. And thus this thread is born.
 

WAZAAAAA

Well-Known Member
- You are correct with Doa3.1's hayate(need to clarify as the 3 versions of DOA3 available have significant differences in their effectiveness in both Side Stepping and FSD. With 3.0 being moderate, 3.1 being very good and 3.2 being utter shit!). With that said you are confusing command step, side step attacks and FSD! You may review how it operated within this thread: http://www.freestepdodge.com/threads/free-stepping-in-doa3-1.116/

-Also I was referring to that of DOA3's FSD mechanics and not side step. FSD has a far stricter timing and effective window. Unlike either command or just regular step, FSD have no active frames for evasion, thus a player must have an acute awareness of exactly when during the breif window they can step, otherwise the player will be hit right out of FSD! Hayates :8: :P::+::K: would be considered a Command Step, akin to that of Rachels's :8: :P::+::K:. Both have lenient timing, however Hayate's is straight up over powered lol!!!
I wasn't mixing them up, I was implying "who needs to know all this sidestepping crap when you've got cartwheels huehue". Just kidding.
 

Excalibur

New Member
No, he side stepped successfully and chose to take the risk of doing something differently after already making the right decision (the successful side step). He could have actually blocked or held the follow up after side stepping the low in Helena's 7PKK. That is the player's fault, not the game. Your argument in saying the side step is isn't an effective defensive option comes from you and other players (the video as the example) not actually taking your time to understand what and when it is appropriate to side step a move.

The video also does not help your argument, because the player actually side stepped correctly (which is the point of the thread subject, making good use of the side step) but his follow up action was a rather late reaction.

If a game has a certain mechanic that is very deep, players are required to study it so they can understand it. By not doing so, you will not make anything out of it. And thus this thread is born.
Steady was already attacking during the sidestep, there was nothing MC could have done to interrupt the incoming attack unless he attacked during the sidestep. He would have to react in maybe less than half a second to hold the block button right outside of the recovery frames. But that's just unrealistic to expect anyone to do so.

But more in depth. The sidestep alone, yes it gets you out of the way, assuming you don't get hit during it. But then your in the exact same spot MC is in, having to try and hold block just in time. But with that said, your back to square one. You see where I'm going with this now? You have to attack during it to make it worthwhile. It's not about giving yourself breathing room, it's just another way to set up an offensive attack in the end. So SS alone is not actually what makes it effective.

Though we may disagree, or everyone disagree with me. No matter, I do enjoy these kind of discussions XD
 

iHajinShinobi

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
California
Main Character
Ayane
Static had time to hold/block the end of the string because Steady delayed the end of the string. No I don't see where you're going with anything because the game does not imply that you are obligated to use a side step attack after side stepping successfully. It is an option, just like choosing to block, hold, or using a different attack is.

As @Mr. Wah mentioned earlier, most strings need to be side stepped at the end of them. And most other strings, as I said, need to be looked into in order to learn to know when it's appropriate to side step something successfully.

You are not side stepping Helena's 7PKK on a whim, first strike is i20, second is i16, third is i17. There is literally no time to side step THEN block the end of the string (or follow up with a side step attack) because the KK in 7PKK is frame tight. Competent Helena players will likely always delay follow ups to this string, and Static knows this, which is why he took the risk to side step.

You can side step and side step attack Helena in her 4PPKK string once she reaches the 4PPK because the interval to the mid kick is i20, when 4PP is i16 (second hit).

All I'm really reading from you is that you have a hard time utilizing the side step because you're risking it rather than knowing when to do it.

The side step can be used as a defensive option or an offensive option, depending on the situation you're in and how you intend to use it.
 

Excalibur

New Member
Static had time to hold/block the end of the string because Steady delayed the end of the string. No I don't see where you're going with anything because the game does not imply that you are obligated to use a side step attack after side stepping successfully. It is an option, just like choosing to block, hold, or using a different attack is.

As @Mr. Wah mentioned earlier, most strings need to be side stepped at the end of them. And most other strings, as I said, need to be looked into in order to learn to know when it's appropriate to side step something successfully.

You are not side stepping Helena's 7PKK on a whim, first strike is i20, second is i16, third is i17. There is literally no time to side step THEN block the end of the string (or follow up with a side step attack) because the KK in 7PKK is frame tight. Competent Helena players will likely always delay follow ups to this string, and Static knows this, which is why he took the risk to side step.

You can side step and side step attack Helena in her 4PPKK string once she reaches the 4PPK because the interval to the mid kick is i20, when 4PP is i16 (second hit).

All I'm really reading from you is that you have a hard time utilizing the side step because you're risking it rather than knowing when to do it.

The side step can be used as a defensive option or an offensive option, depending on the situation you're in and how you intend to use it.
Okay you just repeated what I said about him not being able to defend. I KNOW he had to attack during the sidestep to stop the incoming attacks. That's why I said it works to be offensive because clearly nothing good will happen if you don't. It's the same result with every character if you don't.

We just saw what happens if you don't attack during it. You cannot block faster than an opponents incoming attack right after sidestepping. You have to attack during it or your going to get caught with a hit. Dodging one attack means nothing if you leave yourself open for the next just because you didn't attack during it. That's just the kind of thing that forces you to stay on the offensive. So what defensive capabilities does it have outside of attacking during it are you referring to?
 
Last edited:
Forgot your password?