Unbalanced?

[NightWolf]

Is doa not considered a tournament fighter because of how unbalanced it is?

I mean the fighters are completely unbalanced.

You have characters like ayane who have literally every advantage, her lowest stat is a 3 out of 5. She also constantly gets frame advantages. I watched an ayane fight where her knees where landing hits over another characters full on kicks. I see ayane constantly landing hits that are like 3 feet away from the opponent, wtf? I mean it's not even close yet it still registers as a hit.

Than you have characters like jann Lee who is almost all 1s 2s and 3s for stats. His throws constantly miss, his power really isn't that high and his speed is slow as fuck. Almost every character can out punch him. Yet they portrait him as this fast and powerful character. Riiiiiight lol

On top of that you have non stop fan service.

Also the new characters are completely out of wack

Mai can throw her fan
Raidou can shoot energy blasts or whatever
Marie rose has the spinning move that blocks almost everything and her jump around move where she literally jumps around all the way behind the enemy and dodges almost every move like wtf? She can dodge like 90 percent of attacks just using her spin and jump around moves.

I just don't get what they are trying to do anymore?

They need to even out the characters a little more or something.

Half the characters don't even get used because they are worthless against ayane Marie rose etc.


Also Marie rose is a character for pedophiles. She looks likes she's 12 and sounds like she is 10? Wtf are they doing.

This game is just getting weird.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Please tell me that this is a troll thread...

@Brute

Furthermore DOA is a tournament fighter (See NEC) and it's not more popular because it's not straightforward and braindead enough for the SF, MK or Tekken crowds.

 

[NightWolf]

Please tell me that this is a troll thread...

@Brute

Furthermore DOA is a tournament fighter (See NEC) and it's not more popular because it's not straightforward and braindead enough for the SF, MK or Tekken crowds.

I can almost bet money that there are more reasons than that. But yeah OK

 

[KasumiLover]

This thread.....


.....Im dead XD

 

[Brute]

Please tell me that this is a troll thread...

@Brute

Probably, but Poe's Law.

Is doa not considered a tournament fighter because of how unbalanced it is?

I mean the fighters are completely unbalanced.

Yeah, some of the fighters are unbalanced. But even the craziest gaps between characters in DOA5 don't compare to some of the absurd gaps that can be found in other, more popular fighters. DOA is not considered by some people to be a "Tournament Fighter" because of its lower offline tournout than other fighters, which is itself a result of a variety of factors (incumbent stigma, the unique function of the triangle system and offense/defense as opposed to other streamlined fighters, contemporary merketing practices, etc.).

You have characters like ayane who have literally every advantage, her lowest stat is a 3 out of 5. She also constantly gets frame advantages. I watched an ayane fight where her knees where landing hits over another characters full on kicks. I see ayane constantly landing hits that are like 3 feet away from the opponent, wtf? I mean it's not even close yet it still registers as a hit.

Ayane is one of the strongest characters in the game, but not exactly for the reasons you've mentioned. The "stats," for example, are pretty arbitrary and meaningless. She doesn't have "every advantage," either. For example, she doesn't have an an i9 jab, an i11 mid poke, an i16 OH, a mid parry, etc. Her hitbox/hurtbox ratios are also far from the most egregious in the game, with some other characters (strong and weak) knocking them out of the park (Ein and Leifang, for example). Interestingly, you didn't directly mention her spacing/zoning or crushes, which are what set her above most other characters.

Than you have characters like jann Lee who is almost all 1s 2s and 3s for stats. His throws constantly miss, his power really isn't that high and his speed is slow as fuck. Almost every character can out punch him. Yet they portrait him as this fast and powerful character. Riiiiiight lol

Jann's 6P is i11, which is the fastest mid poke speed in the game. His jab is i10, which is a standard jab speed. So yeah, he's pretty fast. I don't know what you mean by "his throws constantly miss." He doesn't have any weird jumping throws or anything with funky clipping. All I can fathom is that you're either trying to throw from too far away or are trying to connect Dragon Gunner (66T), which is a slower OH that seasoned players can react to and avoid.

On top of that you have non stop fan service.
[...]
Also Marie rose is a character for pedophiles. She looks likes she's 12 and sounds like she is 10? Wtf are they doing.

Utterly unrelated to balance, but okay.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Probably, but Poe's Law.

Eh, I suppose, but I guess I was trying to at least hope that the people that would post on this site would be less ignorant about DOA5LR. (Which IMO is one of the main reasons why the game is avoided and shunned in the FGC... Ignorance).

 

[Brute]

Eh, I suppose, but I guess I was trying to at least hope that the people that would post on this site would be less ignorant about DOA5LR.

Lower your expectations exponentially.

 

[Legendary Goken]

@NightWolf
Dead or Alive was never considered a true tournament fighting game until these last few years, because it's predessors were highly unbalanced. Yes, Mai is very OP, because TN wants to make guest characters that stand out, while also keeping good relations with the KOF devs and fans. Making everyone happy when you're doing business can be unbalancing.

I'm not gonna lie to you, Team Ninja has a shit way of balancing characters, making some guys and girls top tier, most of the girls mid tier, and most guys low tier doesn't really sound like a balanced game, especially when most of the cast are girls.

It seems like some low tier characters like Raidou, Ein, and Leon are a copy and paste version of their old selves with one new move addition and tweaks to damage and stun frames.
It's a lazy and disrespectful attempt at balancing, because these characters have remained more or less the same for almost two decades now.

The thing is that Team Ninja only caters to certain characters (mostly female) and their fanbase to meet the prerequisites of their marketing strategy. That's why they'll always make OP characters with big boobs, so they can make and sell new costumes.

It's an erotic marketing scheme for profit, and has very little to do with making a balanced fighting game.

 

[Chapstick]

Yes, Mai is very OP, because TN wants to make guest characters that stand out, while also keeping good relations with the KOF devs and fans.

How is Mai OP tbh

I only ever got the impression of her being a little above average but not top tier

 

[Force_of_Nature]

@NightWolf
Dead or Alive was never considered a true tournament fighting game until these last few years, because it's predessors were highly unbalanced. Yes, Mai is very OP, because TN wants to make guest characters that stand out, while also keeping good relations with the KOF devs and fans. Making everyone happy when you're doing business can be unbalancing.

I'm not gonna lie to you, Team Ninja has a shit way of balancing characters, making some guys and girls top tier, most of the girls mid tier, and most guys low tier doesn't really sound like a balanced game, especially when most of the cast are girls.

It seems like some low tier characters like Raidou, Ein, and Leon are a copy and paste version of their old selves with one new move addition and tweaks to damage and stun frames.
It's a lazy and disrespectful attempt at balancing, because these characters have remained more or less the same for almost two decades now.

The thing is that Team Ninja only caters to certain characters (mostly female) and their fanbase to meet the prerequisites of their marketing strategy. That's why they'll always make OP characters with big boobs, so they can make and sell new costumes.

It's an erotic marketing scheme for profit, and has very little to do with making a balanced fighting game.

No character is OP in DOA5LR and the game is balanced better than you're giving credit for. Characters with "big boobs" aren't OP, or Honoka wouldn't be crap, and be higher tier instead.

Raidou sucking is unfortunate though lol. Ein & Leon were honestly only added because fans whined about their exclusion. TN wasn't going to exactly radically change how they usually play (Leon isn't bad BTW).

 

[KasumiLover]

No character is OP in DOA5LR and the game is balanced better than you're giving credit for. Characters with "big boobs" aren't OP, or Honoka wouldn't be crap, and be higher tier instead.

Raidou sucking is unfortunate though lol. Ein & Leon were honestly only added because fans whined about their exclusion. TN wasn't going to exactly radically change how they usually play (Leon isn't bad BTW).

Actually Ein and Leon did make the cut for Vanilla DOA5 but they weren't includerd due to time restraint

And the game is balanced imo, the game system just favors a certain playstyle which is why striker type characters with speed and priority and combo output do well, case in point Kasumi, Gen fu who is deadly up close, Christie who has speed and damage and evasion and Ayane who has speed, damage, AND range, Mai is like another Ayane with a projectile and evasion which is why she is very good. Hold type characters like Leifang are good too but some aren't like Marie Rose since she expert holds for days and special sidestep and sabaki but she lacks the general speed, defensive holds/parries and versatility that Leifang has.

The game doesn't favor grapplers/zoner types much due to them being at a constant speed disadvantage and characters like Phase 4 who are fast but have poor neutral and little safety don't do well either. I even think Naotora is good where she is, she's not very good on tier charts but only because she's designed to play a type of way and the game doesn't compliment her zoner play style and frames/assumed linearity since most players just look at what she's expected to do. Idk what the fuck happened to Ein, he used to be so good but it's like he aged like a banana in his transition to Ultimate XD but then again he too is supposed to play a certain way

 

[T..J. Bernard]

I feel that there is balance but like Tekken some styles are preferred. I feel any fast character, a character with great crushes, decent evasion, good frames (frame advantage), solid defense &/or low to mid level execution are preferable in a tournament scenario. Not to say other characters can't win or they suck (Akira, Sarah, Phase are solid to me), but I feel that a character with at least 3 of those characteristics I mentioned are preferred, which is why I see more Rachel in tournament as of late. Almost similar to tekken minus the defense part cause Tekken doesn't really have holds like DOA. They're getting closer but still not there.

To Mai:
Mai online is annoying as I feel she gets away with way too much. But offline she's a bit more tolerable. I kinda learned from TFC that she really needs a counter hit to really get going and as long as I'm well grounded, she's not as much of a pain as I thought once. In fact, I'm considering Akira to be more of a pain than her and he's fun to fight against. But then again I've been fighting Akira's more often.

 

[KasumiLover]

I feel that there is balance but like Tekken some styles are preferred. I feel any fast character, a character with great crushes, decent evasion, good frames (frame advantage), solid defense &/or low to mid level execution are preferable in a tournament scenario. Not to say other characters can't win or they suck (Akira, Sarah, Phase are solid to me), but I feel that a character with at least 3 of those characteristics I mentioned are preferred, which is why I see more Rachel in tournament as of late. Almost similar to tekken minus the defense part cause Tekken doesn't really have holds like DOA. They're getting closer but still not there.

To Mai:
Mai online is annoying as I feel she gets away with way too much. But offline she's a bit more tolerable. I kinda learned from TFC that she really needs a counter hit to really get going and as long as I'm well grounded, she's not as much of a pain as I thought once. In fact, I'm considering Akira to be more of a pain than her and he's fun to fight against. But then again I've been fighting Akira's more often.

It depends on the character, some characters dont have anything but a low parry which is most of the cast while some have only a specific reversal like lili and some have 2 in 1 attacks that reverse moves like Asuka, but then again Tekken isn't really a game that needs holds

 

[Chapstick]

To Mai:
Mai online is annoying as I feel she gets away with way too much. But offline she's a bit more tolerable. I kinda learned from TFC that she really needs a counter hit to really get going and as long as I'm well grounded, she's not as much of a pain as I thought once. In fact, I'm considering Akira to be more of a pain than her and he's fun to fight against. But then again I've been fighting Akira's more often.

I don’t really have problems vs Mai because like you said, she needs a counter to get going. You’re not going to be throw punishing her 90% of the time but it’s easy to tell when it’s your turn to attack. Akira is a different story, all he needs to know how to do is chain P 666P 2P GB pokes to 3-0 me

 

[Onryoki]

I am Roxxxy Andrews and I have something to say.
1: the status bars are inaccurate as f***.
2: some characters happen to have more range than others.
3: Jann lee isn’t slow, you must not have used Raidou Bass or Brad Wong.
4: what does fan service have to do with the game being “unbalanced” ? Balanced and unbalanced has to do with the mechanics not with the fanservice.
5: that the characters are “wack” is 100% your own opinion.
6: Mai’s fan can be side stepped, countered, crouched, and can be avoided by freestepping, and last but not least it can be blocked ! I guess you never found that out did you ? Raidou’s fire ball can also be evaded the same way except ducking. Marie’s twirl, it’s only effective against high and mid punches, you can do a low strike or throw that bitch.
7: and last but not least, you’re a fucking idiot for creating this thread you obviously have 0 idea what you’re even talking about. Maybe you should educate yourself instead of creating this ignorant thread full of ignorant bulls***, here’s a tip. GIT GUD!!!!!!!!

@Legendary Goken Mai isn’t OP, you just can’t fight her, just like Alpha and Naotora.... XD I still remember that day you got salty and rage quit :*


Mai is kinda like Kasumi in terms of weaknesses imo. Just with more range.

 

[Legendary Goken]

@Legendary GokenMai isn’t OP, you just can’t fight her, just like Alpha and Naotora.... XD I still remember that day you got salty and rage quit.

Don't be fooled. I had to go to work. I played 2 games with you.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Actually Ein and Leon did make the cut for Vanilla DOA5 but they weren't includerd due to time restraint

And the game is balanced imo, the game system just favors a certain playstyle which is why striker type characters with speed and priority and combo output do well, case in point Kasumi, Gen fu who is deadly up close, Christie who has speed and damage and evasion and Ayane who has speed, damage, AND range, Mai is like another Ayane with a projectile and evasion which is why she is very good. Hold type characters like Leifang are good too but some aren't like Marie Rose since she expert holds for days and special sidestep and sabaki but she lacks the general speed, defensive holds/parries and versatility that Leifang has.

The game doesn't favor grapplers/zoner types much due to them being at a constant speed disadvantage and characters like Phase 4 who are fast but have poor neutral and little safety don't do well either. I even think Naotora is good where she is, she's not very good on tier charts but only because she's designed to play a type of way and the game doesn't compliment her zoner play style and frames/assumed linearity since most players just look at what she's expected to do. Idk what the fuck happened to Ein, he used to be so good but it's like he aged like a banana in his transition to Ultimate XD but then again he too is supposed to play a certain way

Doesn't really change the fact that Ein & Leon weren't included in the roster for DOA5 Vanilla. They were cut out for a reason.

I honestly don't believe a character like Ayane does better in a tournament setting than Phase-4. Like you implied DOA5LR favours in-your-face pressure over zoning. Phase-4's speed coupled with her damage output serves her well regularly. Ayane does dominate on large stages like the Aircraft Carrier however.

To Mai:
Mai online is annoying as I feel she gets away with way too much. But offline she's a bit more tolerable. I kinda learned from TFC that she really needs a counter hit to really get going and as long as I'm well grounded, she's not as much of a pain as I thought once. In fact, I'm considering Akira to be more of a pain than her and he's fun to fight against. But then again I've been fighting Akira's more often.

Any character can be annoying as fuck online (which naturally includes Mai) because any character can get away with bullshit online including Bass or NyoTengu. Offline Mai is fine, and feels like a projectile-based Momiji with Fans, Flames & Titties!... Umm I mean an i9 jab & i11 6P! Both Mai & Momiji require a CH or to whiff punish something to get their offense started, or they can just keep you out with pokes to annoy the shit out of you until you get impatient and recklessly run in.

Akira is one of the more interesting opponents due to how over-powering his close range offense can seem due to his frames & damage. However, if you can stay out of his face and play neutral footsies/neutral against him, you can make it that much harder for him to win. I.e. Akira prays on you being over-defensive and scared, which can open you up to his strong throws & GB's including the *shivers* GBoD. TL;DR, fight Akira from mid-range or further out, or try to keep him on the defensive the best you can.

 

[KasumiLover]

Doesn't really change the fact that Ein & Leon weren't included in the roster for DOA5 Vanilla. They were cut out for a reason.

I honestly don't believe a character like Ayane does better in a tournament setting than Phase-4. Like you implied DOA5LR favours in-your-face pressure over zoning. Phase-4's speed coupled with her damage output serves her well regularly. Ayane does dominate on large stages like the Aircraft Carrier however.



Any character can be annoying as fuck online (which naturally includes Mai) because any character can get away with bullshit online including Bass or NyoTengu. Offline Mai is fine, and feels like a projectile-based Momiji with Fans, Flames & Titties!... Umm I mean an i9 jab & i11 6P! Both Mai & Momiji require a CH or to whiff punish something to get their offense started, or they can just keep you out with pokes to annoy the shit out of you until you get impatience and recklessly run in.

Akira is one of the more interesting opponents due to how over-powering his close range offense can seem due to his frames & damage. However, if you can stay out of his face and play neutral footsies/neutral against him, you can make it that much harder for him to win. I.e. Akira prays on you being over-defensive and scared, which can open you up to his strong throws & GB's including the *shivers* GBoD. TL;DR, fight Akira from mid-range or further out, or try to keep him on the defensive the best you can.

Ayane still has speed tho so she's kinda Jack of all stats in my book, I think the only reason set characters haven't won a tournament yet is because that right player hasn't been able to win with them, Phase 4 was in that boat as well as Tina, Bayman, Eliot, etc. Those characters are definitely not suited for tournament settings but they won, I think in time there will be new or surprise players who will step forward and win with characters you didn't expect like what Kwiggle did with Phase and what Xcalibur did with Eliot. You can have all the tools and tiers in the world but it'll all be for naught if that right player doesn't use it to the fullest

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Ayane still has speed tho so she's kinda Jack of all stats in my book, I think the only reason set characters haven't won a tournament yet is because that right player hasn't been able to win with them, Phase 4 was in that boat as well as Tina, Bayman, Eliot, etc. Those characters are definitely not suited for tournament settings but they won, I think in time there will be new or surprise players who will step forward and win with characters you didn't expect like what Kwiggle did with Phase and what Xcalibur did with Eliot. You can have all the tools and tiers in the world but it'll all be for naught if that right player doesn't use it to the fullest

Don't get me wrong, I never said that Ayane is "bad" or anything, she's fine all things considered, I just feel that Phase-4 does better in a tournament setting because her potential ludicrous damage output coupled with her fast poke speeds help her out a lot in her matches. This is said mainly because you implied that Phase-4 was not good or lacking in some way, despite faring well in past tournaments. It can't be a coincidence that most higher level players favour Phase-4 over Ayane, despite Phase-4 having higher execution requirements.

 

[Chapstick]

It can't be a coincidence that most higher level players favour Phase-4 over Ayane, despite Phase-4 having higher execution requirements.

Phase 4 is also extremely basic making her easier to pick up than Ayane