System Unholdable setups

Rich Nixon

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
If you haven't heard yet. The current version of DOA5U restores unholdable attacks after an opponent techs in a juggle.

I have, as of this post, not found any setups that are useful.

It's best to find a mid or low hitting attack that gives an advantage on hit/counter hit/ guard or safe options.

So far, I still would rather take the bnb juggles with the +6/+13 option select.

This information applies to Hayabusa but the formula and the way of finding unholdable setups apply the same way for everyone else. (Remember this DOES NOT apply to roll back techrolls)

(In Dojo,Tatami)
Pick Hayabusa and go ahead and set the computer to tech roll and second action to hold. After doing that do the following set up and make sure to HOLD after the combo to see the hidden data and read the explanation below.

Normal hit Hayabusa QCF+Punch, then 8P,3PPP = +26 Frames on techroll and plus the cpu holding.

When you hold during an opponents recovery to find out the hidden frame data, You must take into consideration the initial frame of the hold. Normally the example above would have been -5 if the CPU did NOT hold which would mean you would only be +25 after doing the subtraction of your initial hold but, again, the game is also taking into account the initial frame of the hold. When both you and cpu hold then you cancel out the initial frame since both of you are doing the same move to find the same information and the game takes into account the CPU’s initial frame for the hold and yours. The end result is that the +26 is the correct amount of frame advantage.

Also +26 is the amount of frames your opponent cannot move. Theoretically speaking and assuming that your opponent decides to hold after the tech roll then the hold wouldn’t actually become active until the next following frame of you actually being able to move. +26 is your +advantage but the 27th frame means you can now move, block, attack or do something and the 28th frame would be the hold becoming active.

This theory make sense currently because the move that is currently unholdable is hayabusa's QCF+Punch after the techroll to the side, which according to the games Frame data is 25Frames but we all know it doesn't become active until the 27th frame.

I just showed you that you are allowed to move, block or do something on the 27th frame but the hold WILL NOT come out until the 28th frame. I know this to be true because if you set the CPU to attack instead of hold then the game will register the fact that he attacked on the 27th frame and will show a counter hit on the screen. This also applies to Sidestepping by the way.

The Sidestep doesn't become active until the 1st frame so if your opponent were to sidestep in this situation it would be considered NORMAL hit instead of counter hit because the set up didn't allow for the sidestep to have enough time to activate.

Apply this same formula from Hayabusa to your character and you will see that this applies to everyone in the cast and it will probably be the most consistent way to test unholdable set ups.

Hope this helps for those that didn't make it or didn't understand the stream last night. Post questions if you need help and feel free to share.

-MASTER

List of currently found unholdables
  • Counter hit Juggle ends with 3KK (opponent techs fore/background)
    • 3P+K
  • Juggle ends with 33PP
    • 44P+K
  • 6PK, 4H, 2K, 6P+K
  • 6P 7K 1K 3P (Lightweights)
  • 6P 7K 1K 1K lightweight
  • 6P 8K 6PK Whiff P 3P+K (Side Tech on Lightweight and super light)
  • 6P 8K 6PK Whiff P 66P+K (Back Tech on Lightweight and super light)
  • 6P 8K 6PK Whiff P 66P+K (Midweights)
  • 6P 8K 6PK Whiff P 3P (Heavyweight)
  • 6P 8K 6PK Whiff P 6K (Super Heavyweight)

  • 6P 7K 1K 33P (Mid to Heavyweights)
  • 6P 7K 1K 41236P+K (Back tech Mid to Heavyweights)

  • 6P 7K 1K P+K (S. Heavyweights)
  • Critical Stun > 33PP 44P+K
  • Counter or Hi-Counter hit 6PK Whiff P 41236P (S. Heavy)
  • CH or HCH 6PK Whiff P 66P (Heavyweight)
  • CH 3KP Whiff 2H+P Whiff H+P 214P
  • 3KP Whiff 2H+P Whiff 64H+P 3P
  • 3KP Whiff 2H+P Whiff 64H+P 66K
  • 3P+KH+P Whiff 2H+P 6P
  • 3P+KH+P Whiff 2H+P 3K
  • :8::K: W! :3::3::P: W! :7::[[p+k]]:


Against Wall
On Heavyweight (:genfu:)
  • CH 6KP W! 9PKP Whiff P 214P
  • CH 6PP W! 9PKP Whiff P 214P
  • CH 6PK W! 9PKP Whiff 6H+P 214P
  • 1PP W! 9PKP Whiff 6H+P 214P

On (:akira::bradwong::christie::ein::hayabusa::hayate::jacky::jannlee::lisa::rig::tina::zack:)
  • 6KP W! 9PKP Whiff 4P 3P
  • 6KP W! 9PKP Whiff 4P 66K
  • 6KP W! 9PKP Whiff H+P SS K
  • 6PP W! 9PKP Whiff 6H+P 214P
  • 6PK W! 9PKP Whiff 6H+P 214P
  • 9PKP W! 9PKP Whiff 6H+P 214P
  • 214P W! 9PKP Whiff 4H+P 44P
  • 44P W! 9PKP Whiff 4H+P 44P
  • 1PP W! 9PKP Whiff 6H+P 214P

On (:rachel::bass::bayman::leon:)
  • 214P W! 9PKP Whiff P 214P
  • 6PP W! 9PKP Whiff 6H+P 214P
  • 6KP W! 9PKP Whiff 4H+P 6H+K
  • 6KP W! 9PKP Whiff 6H+P 214P
  • 6PK W! 9PKP Whiff 6H+P 214P
  • 33P W! 9PKP Whiff 6H+P 214P

On (:ayane::kasumi::marierose::phase4:)
  • 214P W! 9PKP Whiff 4H+P 66P
  • 214P W! 9PKP Whiff H+P 214P
  • 6PP W! 9PKP Whiff 6P 3P
  • 6KP W! 9PKP Whiff H+P 214P
  • 6PK W! 9PKP Whiff 6H+P 214P
  • 1PP W! 9PKP Whiff 4H+P 44P

On (:eliot::mila::hitomi::kokoro::sarah:)
  • 6PP W! 9PKP Whiff H+P 214P
  • 6PK W! 9PKP Whiff 6H+P 214P
  • 6KP W! 9PKP Whiff H+P 214P
  • 1PP W! 9PKP Whiff 4P 3P
  • 66K W! 4K Whiff 4P 6H+K
  • 33P W! 9PKP Whiff 6P 3P
  • 33P W! 9PKP Whiff 6P 66K

On (:nyotengu::helena:)
  • 6PP W! 9PKP Whiff 6H+P 214P
  • 6KP W! 9PKP Whiff H+P 214P *Loop with 6H+P if 214P W!*
  • 33P W! 9PKP Whiff 6H+P 214P
  • 6PK W! 9PKP Whiff 6H+P 214P
  • 9P9K W! 9PKP Whiff H+P 214P
  • 214P W! 9PKP Whiff 4P 3P
  • 214P W! 9PKP Whiff 4P 66K
  • 1PP W! 9PKP Whiff 6H+P 214P
  • 66K W! 4K Whiff 4P 6H+K
 
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Rich Nixon

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Thanks for the info. In the earlier versions of 5U I tried to find some unholdable setups, but I kept getting Hi-counter held. I'm glad they brought it back.It Adds another layer to the gameplay.
 

Rich Nixon

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Keep in mind that the 33pp unholdable setup has to be stun>launch (for instance CH 6p, 33pp or p+k,33pp) and if the opponent low holds while in stun it will change the launch height, essentially making the unholdable followup whiff. It's very situational. I've discovered a few more and will post them after thorough testing. Stay Strong my friends. :)
 

Rikuto

P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
Bayman has one I've been using to a certain degree.

If you end a juggle with 6PPK at a decent enough height and your opponent techs you will get an unholdable off of fully charged 46P.

This is decent as blocked it will give you +5 and let you keep grinding your offense. Or you will blap them in the face, which is also funny.
 

UncleKitchener

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
:3::K::K: on hit into :6::P::+::K: seems to be unholdable.

:9::K: into :4::4::P: is another one so fa, but the timing is a bit more strict than the one above due to the :4::4: buffer.

The Kitchen Sink setups into a BT pick up seems to be also a sort of unholdable situations. Not sure if it applies to these sort of setups or not, but it is a situations where only LeiFang and Bayman could probably hold from.
 

Rich Nixon

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
No. Make sure your training settings are correct. Com reaction should be set to hold what you test. Ideally mid p or mid k. Set counters to "always counter". Turn tech roll on.
 

Rich Nixon

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Unholdable wall splat: 9k, 33p, fully charged 1P+K.

EDIT:
6kp(W!)33p, fully charged 1P+K
Ch 3k(W!), 33p, fully charged 1P+K
Sumo stomp(W!), 33p, fully charged 1P+K
Guard breaker(W!), 33p, fully charged 1P+K
 
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UncleKitchener

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
I did some more looking into unholdable recently and found some new things.

W! = :6::K::P:, CH :3::K:, :3::P::+::K:, :214::P: or :K:. :6::6::P: specific followups will be separate due to the move's recovery.


On light characters:
W! > :9::P::K::P: > :6::P:/:624::h::+::P: (Whiff) > :3::P:
W! (:6::6::P: Specific) > :9::P::K::P: > :P::+::K: (Whiff) > (buffer):6::6::P::+::K:
:214::h::+::P::5::6::h::+::P: > :6::K::P: > :9::P::K::P: > :6::h::+::P: > :214::P: (universal)


On medium weights:
W! > :9::P::K::P: > :6::P:/:624::h::+::P: (Whiff) > :6::6::P::+::K:
W! > :9::P::K::P: > :4::h::+::P: (Whiff) > :6::6::P:
W! > :9::P::K::P: > :4::h::+::P: (Whiff) > :4::4::P:
W! > :9::P::K::P: > :4::h::+::P: (Whiff) > :1::P:
W! (:6::6::P: Specific) > :9::P::K::P: > :6::h::+::P: (Whiff) > :214::P:
:214::h::+::P::5::6::h::+::P: > :6::K::P: > :9::P::K::P: > :6::h::+::P: > :214::P: (universal)


On heavies:
W! > :9::P::K::P: > :6::P:/:624::h::+::P: (Whiff) > :3::P::+::K:
W! (:6::6::P: Specific) > :9::P::K::P: > :P::+::K: (Whiff) > :8::P:
:214::h::+::P::5::6::h::+::P: > :6::K::P: > :9::P::K::P: > :6::h::+::P: > :214::P: (universal)


As you can probably tell I went for mids here, mostly tracking and/or safe. With :6::6::P: and :1::P: being unholdable after some setups, it helps a lot with forcing an opponent into a 50/50 situation for the added bonus since some people like to hold low after teching.

Thanks to @Mr. Wah for getting me into this. I'll keep updating this when I find new things.
 

Matt Ponton

Founder
Staff member
Administrator
Standard Donor
It looks like attacking after 214P's GB(+3) means against 9 frame jabbers the only attack option available is P+K, all other options run the risk of being counter hit in the advantage, and he also will be beaten out attempting Offensive holds.
 
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Matt Ponton

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Staff member
Administrator
Standard Donor
S. light, Light, and Welter weight characters:

:214::P: W! :H+P: :214::P:

Ayane + Medium characters (Ayane -> Christie classes):
:214::P: W! :6::H+P: :214::P:

Heavy (Helena & Gen Fu):
:214::P: W! :H+P: :214::P:

S. Heavy:
:214::P: W! :6::H+P: :214::P:

Exceptions from weight class:
:sarah: :ein:
:214::P: W! :4::h: :214::P: (can be any defensive hold)
 
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