What's the general consensus on Marie Rose¿

TRI Mike

Well-Known Member
Madrid, Spain.
Main Character
Honoka
Gamertag
TRI Mike
3DS Friend Code
3308-4593-5435
PSN ID
Abuelo_RPG
What's the general opinion of the competitive community on her¿ I know she has a lot of great tools but how has she been doing in tournaments¿ What does people think about her viability¿
 

Kohlrak

Well-Known Member
she seems to do fine. I don't think she's won anything yet, but her greatest assets are her strike defence capabilities. And, to keep them coming, she has some interesting throws. The trick is for her to get you where she wants you. Once she does, you're going to be eating alot of hits.
 

Brute

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
General consensuses are overrated.

That said, she is plenty tournament-viable.
 

LunaKage

Member
Redford, MI.
Main Character
Marie Rose
Gamertag
LunaKage
Cons:
- Her ranged game is extremely weak
- She doesn't really have any moves that put you at advantage on block

Pros:
- Holy shit when she gets in
- While she doesn't have advantage on block, she's also very safe, not a huge list of moves can be punished.

Double edged sword in my opinion, you gotta be on your A game in order to get in, but once you get in she's a force to be reckoned with. So yeah, I'd say she's viable, but characters with extremely good spacing games give her a hard time.
 

FatalxInnocence

Well-Known Member
Sydney, Australia
Main Character
Honoka
She's good, but like most characters in DOA. Could use improvements.

My main issue with her is string variety ( and length ), aside from strings that extend from PP- everything is 2 hits. Her only low is accessible from 6K- and all attacks from 6K are punishable. Next to that, you have her stances. Rondo can be throw punished if you have good enough eyes which limits her strings a fair amount. ( on block )

Her stances in regards to variety, suffer similar problems. Minuet only has 1 move attached to it that has some ridiculous negative frame on block whilst managing to guard break ( still makes no sense. ) Rondo, whilst having a safe option also lacks variety. A 2 punch high-mid follow up that's throw punishable- and a safe 1 hit mid kick.

Her stances are good, but if you play a Marie Rose enough, I feel like everyone will see that whilst being good they aren't amazing and game breaking like I hear some people state in commentary =\

So, I guess to me she's good, but with flaws that once people are used to can overcome her. Her on block offensive is terrible, but if you can get a stun in then she opens up much more due to launcher variety, and her stances on stun become more useful which is bizarre to me lol

I'd call her a worse Lei-Fang. Whilst still being good.

Feel free to disagree with me xD as I'm sure many people will. But coming from EVERY other female in the game, she is one of the worst of the bunch. As a whole however, she's a good solid mid tier.
 

FatalxInnocence

Well-Known Member
Sydney, Australia
Main Character
Honoka
Using Lei as a point of reference is going to make every character look like they are lacking.
By a worse Lei-Fang, I clearly mean a worse version of her. if you want me to be more obvious.... Not everyone plays like Lei-Fang.

And yes, Minuet is totally broken.
It's not, it has wacky properties but it is in no way broken. It doesn't force people into any type of stupid situation and can be beaten simply by doing a tracking high, MOST tracking mids or a throw. This entire game is based off rock paper scissors. Minuet is no different... except it can be beaten by more than 1 type of thing.

Don't take what I'm saying as a "Woe is Marie" cause it's not. I was just pointing out her FEW flaws. She's better than at least 35% - 40% of the cast. And is probably the most safe in the entire game ( out of the characters I know anyway. ) but safety isn't everything, and Kasumi is proof of this. String Variety > Safety. At least for me anyway.
 

Brute

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
It's not, it has wacky properties but it is in no way broken. It doesn't force people into any type of stupid situation and can be beaten simply by doing a tracking high, MOST tracking mids or a throw. This entire game is based off rock paper scissors. Minuet is no different... except it can be beaten by more than 1 type of thing.
The minuet is a jump. Are we air throwing it or something?

Anyway, the same could be said for any move. First of all, the game is not rock paper scissors and that analogy is way too simplistic to be used in even the most basic of balancing discussion with DOA.
Second, the same could be said for anything. An unblockable, i12 true mid that crushes high and mid at 70 NH dmg can also be beaten by more than 1 type of thing (SS, mid hold, mid parry, whiff bait, etc.). But it's still broken as hell.
The reason it's broken is because of the way that the move "balances" the risk/reward/chance of success. When one move is beating out 99% of options your opponent has, typically that in itself is a problem and a stupid balance decision. But, if it's going to be there, an incredibly high chance of success move should be weighed with a large risk and a low reward. The reward fluctuates but in many cases can open her up for some really nasty guaranteed damage (we don't get some super reward like an i12 punish throw or anything if we patiently "block" it like Lei's 3P+K or anything). The risk is minimal, since if she's hit out of it she falls from jump status rather than being thrown into a stun game mix-up. Combine this with the fact that it avoids all lows, all non-tracking mids and highs and several tracking mids/highs and you have a move that is absolutely, undeniably broken.
So being a part of the triangle system doesn't automatically excuse a move from being broken. It certainly isn't here.

String Variety > Safety. At least for me anyway.
Some characters don't have either.
 
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FatalxInnocence

Well-Known Member
Sydney, Australia
Main Character
Honoka
The minuet is a jump. Are we air throwing it or something?
I've actually been hit out of minuet by a lot of things. And she doesn't fall over, which is one of the weird things I've noticed. It just reverts her back to standing CH lol it's really weird. So throws actually catch her. If done the immediate moment she does it anyway. Not to mention most PP strings auto track her during it so you just get a standing CH stun. Naturally, it would mean doing it the instance she does the stance. If you're waiting like 2-3 seconds then trying to interrupt it well, by then it's obviously going to be too late.

Minuet whilst Kasumi does her H+K = guaranteed launch damage for good ol' Kasumi haha. Some characters don't even have to worry about the stance, Example would be Lisa. Actually Lisa makes 2/3 Marie's stances look useless.

Either way I don't view it as broken lol the amount of people that have punished me during minuet is ridiculous. And from what I'm seeing of tournament players, people are still not used to her. And by that I mean her BT OH is still hitting people stupid amounts, and people still aren't punishing her accordingly. ( on those few moves that are actually throw punishable. )

I'm fairly certain once you've VSed her enough and can understand where I'm coming from, your opinion would change. I've made pretty much everyone in my area immune to Marie Rose. To the point where most matches involving her are struggle street. I have more luck with plenty other characters over her. It all just comes down to character knowledge, and it seems many people still find her a mystery.

Some characters don't have either.
Is this a woe is Hayabusa moment? Anyway, once again I'm not saying she's bad. She's good. But she's not as beastly as everyone is making her out to be. She's good, but she's not amazingly good. It all comes down to conditioning. Funny thing is, I'm also 90% sure you probably beat every MR you come across... regardless of minuet with Hayabusa.

The only time I personally find minuet scary is during stun, cause that's when landing BT OH is really easy due to her BT CB and BT 4K.
 
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XZero264

FSD | Nichol
Premium Donor
Glen Burnie, MD
Main Character
Leon
She definitely is really freaking good, not Gen Fu or Christie good but still really good. Tier list or not she is high B low A as she stands now.

BT OH guaranteed combos that Bayman and Bass wish they could have (if only Bayman's H+K could limbo on back hit like hers), an OH that crushes EVERYTHING but throws, best command SS in the game (seriously needs to be fixed), a really good wall juggle game, a lot of safety that she really shouldn't have on her punches, strong throw damage, command parry with a lot of followup opportunities (including BT options), advanced holds that can really hurt with positioning placement after the hold.
 

Brute

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
It just reverts her back to standing CH lol it's really weird. So throws actually catch her. If done the immediate moment she does it anyway.
Like Ryu's 9K, different parts of the animation are in different states.

Not to mention most PP strings auto track her during it so you just get a standing CH stun.
Well, PP on CH doesn't create a stun on a standing opponent, so I'm not sure it why it would here.

Naturally, it would mean doing it the instance she does the stance. If you're waiting like 2-3 seconds then trying to interrupt it well, by then it's obviously going to be too late.
Kinda the point. That doesn't happen much unless the opponent is mashing and happens to catch it by luck.

Minuet whilst Kasumi does her H+K = guaranteed launch damage for good ol' Kasumi haha. Some characters don't even have to worry about the stance, Example would be Lisa. Actually Lisa makes 2/3 Marie's stances look useless.
A character having a move that beats out a move you have? Preposterous! Must not be a very good move.

Either way I don't view it as broken lol the amount of people that have punished me during minuet is ridiculous. And from what I'm seeing of tournament players, people are still not used to her. And by that I mean her BT OH is still hitting people stupid amounts, and people still aren't punishing her accordingly. ( on those few moves that are actually throw punishable. )
Well the few people I trust (including myself) all seem to perceive it as pretty darn broken.
I wouldn't judge other players' performances too harshly, though, if you're not at the tournament events. Many things come into play and it's not as simple: "throw punish all the unsafe things."

I'm fairly certain once you've VSed her enough and can understand where I'm coming from, your opinion would change. I've made pretty much everyone in my area immune to Marie Rose. To the point where most matches involving her are struggle street. I have more luck with plenty other characters over her. It all just comes down to character knowledge, and it seems many people still find her a mystery.
I have a ton of MU experience against her and I play her myself. I am familiar with all of her strings, all of her frames, and a fair amount of her set-ups.
I'm sure you do have more luck with other characters. There are many characters who are way better than Marie is, even with Minuet. Many of them are female characters.
But none of this changes that the Minuet itself is a broken move.

Is this a woe is Hayabusa moment?
A "woe is Phase 4" moment, actually.

Funny thing is, I'm also 90% sure you probably beat every MR you come across... regardless of minuet with Hayabusa.
An amusing assumption.
I do believe that Hayabusa has a favorable MU against Marie, but that doesn't change that the Minuet is a broken move.
 

Chapstick

Well-Known Member
If ALL tracking highs/mids actually caught it, it'd be less annoying. Doesn't it also put her right at your back when she SS's something with it?
 

Russian-chiropractic19

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Main Character
Bayman
Gamertag
LMGsRfun99
you're kidding right? the second she starts moving its too late to grab or punish on reaction. the only way she's getting hit out of it is by mashing or guessing. Bokuho is annoying, this is bullshit.
 

FatalxInnocence

Well-Known Member
Sydney, Australia
Main Character
Honoka
I'd rather deal with this than Bokuho, just sayin'.
I agree with you. I've never had issues with MR. And I probably never will lol =P Minuet is far from a problem for me. I have more issues with Christie's stances, Brad's Stances, Helena's Bokuho, heck I even find Nyo's 9P even more confronting than Minuet. The only thing she has from that is a negative frame mid, and there is a delay after she minuets to follow into the OH. Which again, throws would beat. At the beginning Marie was scary as hell, but I over-played her to the point of not being phased by her.

The answer to minuet is always going to be throw lol it catches the beginning frames, and her most scary option from BT is counter-able with a throw. Grapple the hell out of her. Throw characters have a field day with her if the player over-uses minuet.

Anyway whatever, everyone is obviously going to be more inclined to believe themselves or other people they're surrounded by. But at the end of the day, DOA really has answers for everything. So I don't think I would consider anything in the game broken.

And again, the people I vs seem to have no issues hitting me out of Minuet. The amount of times I've minuet out of the first P to get hit by the second is ridiculous.
 
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