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Dead or Alive 5 Helena

Omegan Eckhart

Omegan Eckhart

Well-Known Member
I've been looking at how we as a community have reacted to Helena in DOA5 and after looking at some of my own posts I realised that I've been bagging on her hard, primarily in the hope TN would notice and fix her up a bit and also... cause... well watching your character getting nerfed is frustrating.

It doesn't look like we are going to be top tier... or even mid tier but we got what we got. So let's try and focus on what we have got and try not to focus on the negatives too much.


I'm going to update this thread whenever I find out anything new with Helena.

~ ~ ~

+ Helena still has all of her strings that made her who she is in DOA4 with the exception of :P::P::2::K::P: which was useful but we can easily manage without it.

+ She's got a few new attacks which looks flashy as hell and are going to give us new combo's.

+ She still has all of her mix ups that made her a pain to counter in DOA4, so if you can mix up good you will still wreck shit with her.

+ Her :P+K: is still a high crush it's just not brainless to use any more which I think will make us better players in the grand scheme.

+ BKO grab still hurts like hell and I'm looking forward to seeing what set ups we can get from it.

+ Yeah she is more unsafe but I think most characters are more unsafe than their DOA4 versions (I say I think), so we will be thrown more but we will also be throwing more too.

+ :4::K: from BKO is still there which is a great move.

+ BKO still seems to work fine, perhaps not a good as it was previously but still plenty good enough to screw people over with, you just gotta be smart when Hitomi does :3::F+K: now :p

+ :2::1::4::P: Is Helena's only sit down stun that when landed by itself causes sit down. It has poor range and isn't very fast but it does have a follow up mid :P: that launches so if you land it you get a guaranteed launch. If you can condition someone to counter something other than mid :P: which shouldn't be hard you can get a guaranteed launch which is pretty solid.

!!NEW!! Helena's side step :K: is her BKO sweep, so we have a side step attack that is a low and gives a nice stun. Looking good!

!!NEW!! BT :F+P: & :214::F+P: now give stun for guaranteed follow up attacks, no free launch but it's a vast improvement on a guarantee of nothing.

~ ~ ~

If you still feel bummed out check out Black Mamba's write up on Helena here:
http://blackmambamoan.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/match-analyzer-2-pre-release-edition.html

She may not have been given a lot of new tools like other characters but she is still Helena and if you liked her in DOA4 and could wreck shit with her you will be just fine in DOA5.


See you on the battlefield!
 
TRI Mike

TRI Mike

Well-Known Member
Another Helena thread¿ I never noticed Wah started a competition to see which girl got the most threads about her opened.
 
Vanity Assassin

Vanity Assassin

Active Member
Helena has always been my main, and until I ge to play her( I wasn't able to at GVN :() I can't make any comments on her game play or how I feel about her. but no matter what I'll still play her, worse comes to worse I pick up someone else up as well. I just can't abandon her after all these years.
 
KwonJigglypuff

KwonJigglypuff

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I agree with the OP. Since it's too late, it's probably better to stop with that negativity and focus on the few tools she could have. Her sweep is certainly going to very useful. Also it seems that she can cancel from BKO very quickly. And... uh..
 
DrDogg

DrDogg

Well-Known Member
Just a quick note, some of Mamba's article is incorrect. Her only frame advantage comes from her guard breaks and I would be shocked if he figured out some sort of useful BKO throw loop as he hinted at. There's just too much invincibility on wake-up now.

She's basically DOA4 Helena without a ground game and as the most unsafe character in the game. I think she even has Zack beat in that respect.
 
Riizch

Riizch

Member
I'm sure there are plenty of positives to be found with Helena. I think looking for them is the best way forward for anyone who's a Helena fan.

As I said in the Helena improvements thread, I think TN made a big mistake in highlighting all the negatives and the things that they've taken away from her rather than emphasising what her strengths will be. It's all a matter of perspective.

Characters shift tiers from game to game...it's something we just have to deal with. Ultimately, she will still be fun to play with, and if you're the kind of player who can truly master a character, then I'm sure you'll still be able to hand people's asses to them on a plate regardless of her weaknesses.
 
DrDogg

DrDogg

Well-Known Member
I can run through people with Helena no problem... but it's WAY easier to do it with Rig, Bass and a bunch of other characters.
 
DrDogg

DrDogg

Well-Known Member
DOA2U Helena had limbo stun and +5 on a deceptive low. I don't think DOA5 Helena know what + means. It's a foreign symbol to her.

DOA3.1 Helena had guard breaks and a nice sidestep from BKO, plus retained the good parts of her DOA2 gameplay.

DOA5 Helena is ridiculously unsafe and can't use any new DOA5 tools effectively other than sidestepping. Unless the opponent is stunned, she has no offense or has to fight for every inch. With Rig and Bass I can just press buttons and my offense starts. It's a stark contrast.
 
BlackxxxMamba

BlackxxxMamba

Active Member
DrDogg said:
Just a quick note, some of Mamba's article is incorrect. Her only frame advantage comes from her guard breaks and I would be shocked if he figured out some sort of useful BKO throw loop as he hinted at. There's just too much invincibility on wake-up now.

She's basically DOA4 Helena without a ground game and as the most unsafe character in the game. I think she even has Zack beat in that respect.
Click to expand...

Ok, this article is about what I observed from the video. I'm not saying this is clear cut facts or anything, just some possible things I saw. Hence why I said, "I THINK" the move gave advantage on block.

I'm just giving a different perspective, (from someone who hasn't played her yet) and just saying that she might not be as bad as you are making her out to be. She probably will wind up being terrible, who knows.

What I do find funny though is that move that I said "I think" has frame advantage, the same one you said I was incorrect about, in a different article it said, "it’s one of the few attacks that actually leaves her at an advantage when it’s blocked." Now that I think about it, it was actually YOUR article from the IGN site where I read that....
 
DrDogg

DrDogg

Well-Known Member
BlackxxxMamba said:
Ok, this article is about what I observed from the video. I'm not saying this is clear cut facts or anything, just some possible things I saw. Hence why I said, "I THINK" the move gave advantage on block.
Click to expand...

I know, that's why I didn't mention any corrections in the thread you made about it. I only mentioned it here because it's being referenced as potentially accurate info.

BlackxxxMamba said:
What I do find funny though is that move that I said "I think" has frame advantage, the same one you said I was incorrect about, in a different article it said, "it’s one of the few attacks that actually leaves her at an advantage when it’s blocked." Now that I think about it, it was actually YOUR article from the IGN site where I read that....
Click to expand...

 
MajesticBlue

MajesticBlue

Active Member
That is something I do like about going into Tekken as a Doa player. It is very nice to be able to jab and give yourself plus one to start mounting some pressure. The fact that lows on hit can be punishable in Doa is really weird as well.

Does she still have her F+K guard break? If it is unshakable she at least has that to work with...even though it is a 25 frame high.. and was only like plus 7 ish. In one of the games it was unholdable I remember.

The lack of universal low OH should make some mixups more viable I would think. Even if they just made her palm safe again it would help. That one change makes very little sense to me.
 
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