Guilty Gear Xrd (UPDATE: Arcade Version Opening!)

Lulu

Well-Known Member
Good luck with that. I've been trying GG on and off for 3 years cycling through the characters multiple times and no one clicked with me yet. The character I used to learn the mechanics was Jam and even she doesn't click with me. GG is the only game where I have this problem.

It might be the system that you aren't too fond of. I got into BB months after GG and I still found my mains for BB before GG.

The only character that ever caught me eye in this game is Baiken... and shes a whole other level Unplayable for me... Dropped the game after that. Now I'm back at it because theres a local scene in the next province (closest I could find) they are hard core into Guilty Gear & BlazBlue... I figured I would rule in/out this game once and for all.

LoL... maybe they've never heard of Dead or Alive... I should introduce them. :p
 

Lulu

Well-Known Member
Next he wave Ninja Boy, Chip Zanuff:
Relies too much on excessive jump cancelling... plus he looks stupid.

Final Verdict: Unplayable

Millia Rage:
I heard this character was suppose to be easy... I must have heard wrong because shes basically like Pre SFV Chun Li without the charge motions.

Final Verdict: UNPLAYABLE

Next we have the one and only character I like... Baiken:
Not only does she have a DP move... its only usable in the air and its used in Combos... meaning you need to be able to Jump Cancel in to this move from a Jab...

Final Verdict: UNPLAYABLE (and very unfortunate)

Then we have this douche bag... Answer:
HEY !!! GET OFF THE PHONE AND FIGHT, ASS HOLE !!!
Things were going fine with this dude until Advanced Trial #3 they started busting out the Jump Cancel Instant Airdash Combos.

Final Verdict: UNPLAYABLE

Next we got Eddie And Lil Eddie:
Definitely way too Complicated.

Final Verdict: UNPLAYABLE

Potemkin:
He just like Zangief... Anything and everything that is even remotely useless for this character is tethered to done ridiculously complex motion.

Final Verdict: UNPLAYABLE

I-No:
Too many Air Shenanigans and Tiger Knee nonsense.

Final Verdict: UNPLAYABLE

next we have DeGre- Uh I mean Slayer:
Its hard to nailed whays wrong with this guy... I just feel he so inconsistent. I tapped out at Advanced Trial 3.

Final Verdict: INCONSISTENT

Next we got VENOM:
Things were going pretty well with this dude... however I have it on good autbority that this dude is basically just SFV's Menat with Infinite V-Trigger 1.

Final Verdict: NEEDS VERIFICATION.

Axel Low:
Too Many command Normals and reliance on DP motion in combos... didn't even make it past Basic Trial #4.

FINAL VERDICT: UNPLAYABLE

DIZZY:
Its one thing to ask me to perform links but to make Link 3 Crouching Light Kicks in a row by micro dashing in between each kick is just silly... The whole point of Push back is to prevent this very thing from Happening.

Final Verdict: UNPLAYABLE

Faust:
He's just too Gimmicky and just like Potemkin all the gimmicks are tethered to difficult commands.

Final Verdict: UNPLAYABLE

Bedman:
This motherfucker is lazy... he ecpects me to do all the execution...

Final Verdict: UNPLAYABLE

Jack-O:
I'm pretty sure her whole miniom shtick makes her unplayable but I'l have to stick with it just to see what her deal is.

Final Verdict: PENDING

Gender Swapped Bruce Lee (Jam Kuradoberi):
There actually hope for this character... just not with my current controller... theres no room for error on her parry stance which you need for her combos.

Final Verdict: NEEDS HITBOX CONTROLLER (willing to dabble with her until I get one... or make one).

Johnny:
One of those Characters where you need to cancel a move into a another and then cancel that move back to his neutral stance to continue combos.

Final Verdict: UNPLAYABLE

Ky Kiske and Sol Bad:
I'm lumping these two ass holes together because they have the exact same problem... Excessive DP Motion cancelling in all their combos. Sol is even worse because he's got a bunch of othet ridiculous motions.

Final Verdict: UNPLAYABLE


And there you have it... 2 Days of Banging my head against this game's Execution Barrier and I only managed to cleanly shake loose one viable character and two potentials. Non of them which I particularly like. This game takes Anti-Accessibilty to a whole new level.

My Thumbs are aching... gonna wait for the pain to go away then we'l look for guides for Raven, Elphelt and Jam.
 

human013

Well-Known Member
@Lulu
Do you have experience in 2D games? Can you say you're confident in them? Because the things you wrote are very similar to what I went through when I first jumped into 2D fighters after only playing 3D fighters.

What motions are hard or ridiculous? In general 2D games will use more motions and more complicated motions than 3D games. Some of the things that made you give up on one character are things every character can and will do as you progress. Like the jump cancel IAD, tiger knee, and other motions. The character you chose may not use it frequently but they may use it in some combos. The micro dashing for Dizzy sounds like something that will become common at higher level play.

For Jam she is pretty straight forward but she also has some hidden move properties that are hard to do consistently. I don't remember which combo trial it was but when you get to it you will know. It was one combo using JC IAD 623K or something that. The combo sequence didn't look hard but actually doing it was a different story. For her parry stance combos just make sure you input 46P then mash P or K for whatever attack you want. I think there is only one point where the follow up can come out so nothing can come out before or after that specific point. Just mash the follow up button you want. Try doing 2D>46PP(or K) to see how it is.

You should spent more than 2 days getting used to the game and characters. You went through a lot of characters, their gimmicks, and general game plan. Usually the very gimmicky ones can be crossed off quickly like Jack-O, Axl, Venom, and Zato but give the others more time.
 

Lulu

Well-Known Member
@Lulu
Do you have experience in 2D games? Can you say you're confident in them? Because the things you wrote are very similar to what I went through when I first jumped into 2D fighters after only playing 3D fighters.

Street Fighter and Killer instinct...

This also isn't First time I let Guilty Gear bend me over and have its way with me. I tried it before and dropped it because the one charatcter I did like was Unplayable... I spent a week trying to get used to Baiken... if 7 Days isn't enough then no amount of time will be enough... its better to cut my losses at 7 days and move on than to keep at it and be stuck anyway after weeks or even months.

@Lulu
What motions are hard or ridiculous? In general 2D games will use more motions and more complicated motions than 3D games. Some of the things that made you give up on one character are things every character can and will do as you progress. Like the jump cancel IAD, tiger knee, and other motions. The character you chose may not use it frequently but they may use it in some combos. The micro dashing for Dizzy sounds like something that will become common at higher level play.

I've played SFV for over 6 Months now... I still Stuck at DP motions, I'm even worse at Tiger knee motions and I frequently still unintentionally throw fireballs when trying to walk forward/backward after crouching to do a simple normal attack... and that all didn't get better after weeks of practice... like I literally plateauxed in 2 months and just kept sucking every month after that...

That being said... Guilty Gear , despite having many of the same motions, is still more executionally difficult just because of the way the game is designed... its significantly faster, has significantly less Hitstop Duration when attacks land, does not allow you to use the alternate input methods and last but not least does not make in considerations on the choice of normals you're supposed to special cancel from.

Heres an example of what I mean in that last part... one of Ryu's combos consist of cancelling standing light kick into a DP... now the speed and hitstop duration makes it difficult to do that normally, The DP would either not come out at all or come out too late to combo just because the DP motion is a 3 Step process... but Ryu doesn't have any command normals from his light kick button... and what this means is you can perform the first step of the DP Motion and the Standing Light Kick at the exact same time and that will give leave you with enough time to complete the rest of The DP motion and the combo will work more consistently. The same thing applies when trying to cancel Crouching Hard Punch into DP... theres another input shortcut for that too


This is significantly less frequenct in Guilty Gear... I wouldn't even say Gear Gear has more command normals than street fighter but every combo trial I've come across wants you to special cancel a DP Move from a normal that also happens to have a command normal thats going to prevent you from using the Shortcut like Forward Slash from Ramlethal... the only character's combo trial that didn't make me have to Raw cancel a DP from a command normal was That Hungry Boy... Sin Kiske.

using input tricks and input shortcut is what helps Street Fighter be a lot less unplayable.

alot of fighting game Motions are actually not difficult to do... we actually do the most of them all the time in annoying QTE Sections in many other Games... however what makes them difficult is the speed at which you do them...

Both Guilty and BlazBlue are so determined to be super hardcore that they actually have one or two moves that require only a single button press but they made it hard by making you press that button in a specific way for a specific amount of time.

Thats how determined these games are to stop people from trying to play them.

@Lulu
For Jam she is pretty straight forward but she also has some hidden move properties that are hard to do consistently. I don't remember which combo trial it was but when you get to it you will know. It was one combo using JC IAD 623K or something that. The combo sequence didn't look hard but actually doing it was a different story.

Then it looks like I can't count Jam as one of my potentials...

That just leaves me with Raven and Elphelt.


For her parry stance combos just make sure you input 46P then mash P or K for whatever attack you want. I think there is only one point where the follow up can come out so nothing can come out before or after that specific point. Just mash the follow up button you want. Try doing 2D>46PP(or K) to see how it is.

Jam's 46 Motion is just as Picky as Akira's moves that have the same motion... if a single phantom input happens to make its way in there then the move out right will refuse to work. I don't know how difficult it is on stick but on a D-Pad unintentional inputs happen all the time even for something as simple as 46 motion... the speed at which they want me to do this essentially guarantees that an 2 or 8 input is going to snake its way in there 90% of the time completely botching the move all together.

This is why I said "NEEDS HITBOX Controller" because each direction is its own dedicated button with its own dedicated finger... its actually more less impossible to screw up 46 Parry.

Luckily I don't have worry about that because Jump Cancelling in to Instant Air dash DP is something I won't be able to do on any controller. So No Jam For me.

You should spent more than 2 days getting used to the game and characters. You went through a lot of characters, their gimmicks, and general game plan. Usually the very gimmicky ones can be crossed off quickly like Jack-O, Axl, Venom, and Zato but give the others more time.

and in that 2 Days It managed give my thumbs a highly uncomfortable amount of pain that makes difficult to type or open a bottle of water without Wincing. And thats just from the combos I was able to do. Sorry but my body can't handle grinding it out for the other characters... its simply too much... plus I don't like Them... its literally only Baiken... I thought Jam was cool too because I have a soft spot for Traditional looking Martial Artist in Anime Games but thats just about it.

I even used a Fight Pad instead of my regular crappy controller... same results.

Edit:
@human013
Saw those Jam combos you were talking about... there's no jump cancelling into instant Airdash DP... its just a raw Late Air Dash into DP... I managed to do it twice by accident.

So I'm putting Jam back in Rotation...

Answer is the guy who has combos where you legit have to jump cancel into instant air dash shenanigans... seriously though... dude's got no manners... its customary to turn your phone off before you open up a can of Kick Ass.
 
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human013

Well-Known Member
@Lulu
If it's not clicking then it might not be for you then. I'm in the same position as you in regards to GG.

I have never played SF but the issue seems to be something like doing Jam's 2K>623K, 5K>623K, or 6K>623K and the 623K not coming out because you can't buffer in part of the 623 because she has a 6K normal? Do you have a specific combo you can give me? Because from the sound of it it seems like you just need to input the motion faster and be cleaner when inputting it.

For Jam's parry you have to be precise in inputting it. I play on pad only so I don't know about any other controllers.

You did Jam's advance combo 6? You did the entire combo? Specifically for the Air dash 623K, to do it correctly Jam has to stay in one spot as the 623K is hitting Sol. If you are moving up as the 623K is hitting then it's wrong. Check the demo and compare it to yours. If you can do it then great. Thought it might be too much for you.
 

Lulu

Well-Known Member
@Lulu
If it's not clicking then it might not be for you then. I'm in the same position as you in regards to GG.

Pretty Much...

I was actually hoping not being able to do any of the characters combos at all... that would just made things simpler for me. But apparently I didn't suck hard enough not to play Raven... :(

@Lulu
I have never played SF but the issue seems to be something like doing Jam's 2K>623K, 5K>623K, or 6K>623K and the 623K not coming out because you can't buffer in part of the 623 because she has a 6K normal? Do you have a specific combo you can give me?

Nope... I don't know Jam that well... the 623 thing was an issue I had with Ramlethal the most. I pretty much wrote off every character that had a similar thing.

@Lulu Because from the sound of it it seems like you just need to input the motion faster and be cleaner when inputting it.
You can have one or the other... I can't do both...

I van give you slow and precise or I can give it to you fast and dirty :p.... Fast and Precise is literally impossible for me... infact its not even uncommon... most players have filthy inputs in real play... most games don't punish you for it but Virtua Fighter and BB/GG do. KoF is funny because its inputs are lenient but the motions are prone to many overlapping issues...

@Lulu
For Jam's parry you have to be precise in inputting it. I play on pad only so I don't know about any other controllers.

I'm assuming they made it strict because 4 & 6 are common motion in a match at any given point so to stop accidental parries from popping they made it a pain in the ass to do. That way if you do see Jam's parry then you know it was intentional.

Which is especially silly because This issue was already solved with Baiken's Parry... its just designed better.

@Lulu
You did Jam's advance combo 6? You did the entire combo? Specifically for the Air dash 623K, to do it correctly Jam has to stay in one spot as the 623K is hitting Sol. If you are moving up as the 623K is hitting then it's wrong. Check the demo and compare it to yours. If you can do it then great. Thought it might be too much for you.

Not the whole thing... just the First two parts... and yes I did land immediately and catch Sol for the juggle so I just have to learn the juggle separately and combine it with the Air Dash DP and I'm good...

According to one post on Dustloop's Forum, The way to stop Jam from moving upward is to immediately cancel the air dash straight into the DP super early... lol... the game doesn't tell you this nor does the Demo hint thats what its doing.
 

human013

Well-Known Member
@Lulu
Try out the things I listed for Jam since they sound like the thing talked about in the vid. There are no shortcuts for the issues you are having. You just have to push through if you want to learn the game. You literally have to play GG by GG's rules. SF and other games won't help you. Gotta have quick fingers while being precise. You mentioned KOF and that is the one game where I think the inputs are convoluted. How you see GG is how I see KOF. I can't even finish Yuri's combo challenge.

For Baiken and Jam's parry I think they are both fine. I play Hakumen in BB so it wasn't a challenge to learn different parry inputs.

So you already had outside knowledge and knew what to do. I didn't know about it so it stumped me for a while. Like you said, the game does not tell us. There might be more things like this as you dive deeper.

Keep trying though if you really want to learn. Or GG just might not be for you. It's been 3 years for me and I hop on GG every now and then just to see if a miracle occurs and I click with a character. Hasn't happened yet.
 

Lulu

Well-Known Member
@Lulu
Try out the things I listed for Jam since they sound like the thing talked about in the vid. There are no shortcuts for the issues you are having. You just have to push through if you want to learn the game. You literally have to play GG by GG's rules. SF and other games won't help you. Gotta have quick fingers while being precise. You mentioned KOF and that is the one game where I think the inputs are convoluted. How you see GG is how I see KOF. I can't even finish Yuri's combo challenge.

Yeah KoF is straight up intentionally trying to scare people away with its commands... And I'm not only talking about those Crazy Raidou style Ribbon & See Saw Motions that loop over themselves twice. Even the seemingly simple stuff is an issue... for example... Vanessa has one charge back move and one half cicrle forward move... and I discovered when trying to do the Half Circle Forward move to punish something she would use the much slower Charge move because those moves overlap eachother. Ugh.... I like Vanessa but I couldn't deal with that nightmare. Won't be returning to KoF until thats fixed. I did Finish Yuri's Combo Challenge... eventually. I had to take a break from the game for a few months but I did come back and finish that combo... it was a pain in The Pass.

For Baiken and Jam's parry I think they are both fine. I play Hakumen in BB so it wasn't a challenge to learn different parry inputs.

Baiken's is Fine... Jam's definitely needs to be fixed... I might struggle with it so the chances of me doing it by accident are slim... but some Dustloop members have done Jam's Parry by accident.

They should just make it two buttons like Baiken's Parry.

So you already had outside knowledge and knew what to do. I didn't know about it so it stumped me for a while. Like you said, the game does not tell us. There might be more things like this as you dive deeper.
Yeah and Dust loop is running dry... barely anyone visits there and more and whatever few posts there are over 2 Years old.

Maybe if They Lowered the execution they could increase player retention and that would increase the number of members and finding out these things would be a whole lot easier.

Ofcourse we all know what happens when someone suggests the Execution be lowered...

Keep trying though if you really want to learn. Or GG just might not be for you. It's been 3 years for me and I hop on GG every now and then just to see if a miracle occurs and I click with a character. Hasn't happened yet.

Its definitely not for me... but I'l keep trying anyway... the local scene is into GG, Smash and Injustice 2 the most. My Rig can't run injustice and I won't be smashing it up because I don't own a Nintendo so Its GG until I get a new GPU... I planned on getting one at the end of next month but I experienced a rather substantial financial set back so no new GPU for me for quite some time.

Why couldn't they just like The Boob Simulator (DoA) like I do ? :(

Edit:

I may have Judged Leo WhiteFang alil too early... I'l just go ahead and add him as one of my potentials.... still don't like him though.

And then theres Jack-O... manipulating the servents seems alil easy so I figured why not use her too.

Baiken is still a head but I did managed to learn her Dustloop combo in the corner. Its actually not difficult... The game just has a really shitty input buffer. Still though... My Baiken's not ready... I can't IAD Tatami Gaeshi... which apparently is useful. Very unfortunate because the Point Block on Suzuran is really fucking good. Still haven't figured out how to Guard Cancel with Azami... did they remove that ? :eek:

Watched a tutorial for Ramlethal and learned a trick to perform her Combination Juggles... requires some tricky timing and teeny tiny microdashes... combine these things together and you get great corner carry combos... but I'm still struggling with that Stupid Dauro loop Combo... oh and it turnsout you can Combo Into a Dust Launcher... its tricky to setup but it is possible.

Still Grinding with Elphelt... Shotgun combos are tricky but seems doable... its timing the Strawberry Grenade where things get tricky.... I don't like her so I think I'l drop her... will pick her back up if things don't work out with Baiken

Jam... Jam jam jam. Playing this character is exhausting. Too reliant on mobility. I was able to Get the Airdash Version of her DP but I feel like with out being able to do this straight from an instant Airdash then its pointless... Definitely need a Hitbox for Jam....



So... Baiken, Ramlethal & Jack-O... Don't dissapoint me, Girls.

So Does Baiken not have any proper Midscreen Damaging Combos... it seems like she's excessively reliant on Counter Hits... this is problematic because the tutorials sometimes require you to punish with a combo that deals 80 damage meterless.... Not easy with Baiken.

Edit:

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