Move Set Synergy

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
Something that's been on my mind for awhile is things for certain characters that don't make sense.

So in example, I'll use Jann Lee 3K and Standing K.

This issue was more present in DOA4 when his 3K sat down on any hit level beyond NH but it's come again with Team Ninja's wild idea to make it sit down on crouching opponents.

Looking at the mix ups off of it he has a tracking high kick, a linear mid kick and a tracking mid punch. The issue is that while 3KK (The high) may not be the most used option... It does have get shafted the most. In the case an opponent does randomly hold low it sits down sacrificing the stun game and in the case that the opponent does slow escape fastest he loses the stun game and ends up at -2 for using it.

What's more is after a H+K sit down you do see players utilize it sometimes and while on a perfect micro dash it does result in enough frame advantage to 66K... More often than not that option isn't usable and more importantly the other two follow ups whiff.

This is bad synergy in my eyes as it adds an aspect of randomness which can cost the player his momentum and possibly a round.

Also, there's an inconsistency with 3K[4KP] and K[4KP]. In the case of the former, it tracks on the last P but not on the 4K... but in the case of K4KP it's the complete opposite. I understand that it would give him 3 tracking moves off of 3K (maybe 4 if 3K2K does exist (I don't remember) but shouldn't 3K4K track?

3KP is borderline useless and I'd rather see them give him his crouching 46P as a linear follow up or get overhauled in general in exchange for tracking on his 3K4K instead. But what sense does it make in its current state?

Now this isn't a buff JL thread and frankly I'm not even concerned with JL as he isn't my main... but does anyone else face these problems with other characters and what's your take?

My real character is Hayate and I can't think of a move that's close to those in inconsistency... except maybe BT 2K. It still doesn't track to this day which doesn't make sense for a sweep... even if it only comes from one side. If that's the case it should have half tracking... which results in full tracking because we don't round down in DOA.

Let me know your thoughts and share some other situations. :3
 

DestructionBomb

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Something that's been on my mind for awhile is things for certain characters that don't make sense.

So in example, I'll use Jann Lee 3K and Standing K.

This issue was more present in DOA4 when his 3K sat down on any hit level beyond NH but it's come again with Team Ninja's wild idea to make it sit down on crouching opponents.

Looking at the mix ups off of it he has a tracking high kick, a linear mid kick and a tracking mid punch. The issue is that while 3KK (The high) may not be the most used option... It does have get shafted the most. In the case an opponent does randomly hold low it sits down sacrificing the stun game and in the case that the opponent does slow escape fastest he loses the stun game and ends up at -2 for using it.

What's more is after a H+K sit down you do see players utilize it sometimes and while on a perfect micro dash it does result in enough frame advantage to 66K... More often than not that option isn't usable and more importantly the other two follow ups whiff.

This is bad synergy in my eyes as it adds an aspect of randomness which can cost the player his momentum and possibly a round.

Also, there's an inconsistency with 3K[4KP] and K[4KP]. In the case of the former, it tracks on the last P but not on the 4K... but in the case of K4KP it's the complete opposite. I understand that it would give him 3 tracking moves off of 3K (maybe 4 if 3K2K does exist (I don't remember) but shouldn't 3K4K track?

3KP is borderline useless and I'd rather see them give him his crouching 46P as a linear follow up or get overhauled in general in exchange for tracking on his 3K4K instead. But what sense does it make in its current state?

Now this isn't a buff JL thread and frankly I'm not even concerned with JL as he isn't my main... but does anyone else face these problems with other characters and what's your take?

My real character is Hayate and I can't think of a move that's close to those in inconsistency... except maybe BT 2K. It still doesn't track to this day which doesn't make sense for a sweep... even if it only comes from one side. If that's the case it should have half tracking... which results in full tracking because we don't round down in DOA.

Let me know your thoughts and share some other situations. :3

Slightly off topic, but I have encountered jab whiffs on hurtbox for certain characters against their mids up close. Raidou for example, you can lead a 2P into a jab real up close, however certain characters have mids that don't necessarily put them in a crouching state but can avoid certain highs with their mids.

As Hayate, have Raidou as the bot and allow him to record and repeat 2P > P. In between those strings, you do Hayate's 6P and he will go under the jab from time to time. I know it's related to character hurtbox etc. however it's still stuff that generally doesn't make sense. Not that I play Raidou on a constant basis but just going along with your topic on such things lol, but rather odd situation that should be adjusted.
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
True. Thing is I don't believe a move should always have to be crouching state to crush highs. I.e. Ayane 6p which is an intentional non crouching high crush.

Hayate 6P shouldn't be one though. For him it should be 3p, 8p, 4p and things of that nature.

That being said, I frankly miss the dominance of crush moves in the older games. In DOA5 it's much less forgiving to get out of the stun game as holding out of stun now gives extra frames of recovery as well as an additional 5 on low holds.

Frankly I miss days where Hayabusa could simply 33P under Hayate's 6p at round 1 fight. Of course there was always his 12 frame launcher but i believe it traded or was beaten out.

I think if crushes were still silly in that aspect but main true mids were viable... this wouldn't be much of a problem... or true lows at that. 33P should never beat a low jab or low of any kind.

But I digress.

Another aspect of the moveset synergy would be stuns for me.

Maybe its from playing so much Tekken and Street Fighter lately as I commonly see sitdown and crumple stun animations that remind me of DOA.

I dont really like the stigma of attaching guaranteed damage to a type of stun as it some what limits the potential of the game in my eyes from a moveset stand point.

Perhaps this is more of a casual aspect but in DOA4 I enjoyed having a sit down stun on 3K. It functioned as a lift stun in a sense because while the stun was deep, it also didn't allow for the opponent to hold instantly out of stun.

Also it received the perk of a higher launch still but more so than anything, for many characters it forced you as a player to chase down your opponent which gave a bit more visual... flair if you will.

So in Hayate's case, 8p would whiff, 9k wouuld whiff, and 4k6k would whiff if they were done instantly after the sit down but by dashing in he would get the ability to do the mix up. In the case of 8K, technically it would hit... but it was a high in that game and a fake launcher as it was techable before you could even follow up.

In this i'd like to see this aspect return but instead of ruining the guaranteed damage aspect already created, perhaps move some things around to compensate characters with these holdable deep stuns and in the case of guaranteed damage offer more stuns up as unholdable options and dub those stuns a specific name.

So instead of critical stun or critical burst, perhaps critical stagger, power stun or heavy stun.

So whenever Jann Lee hits an H+K the screen will shake and in yellow text heavy stun would appear on the side of the screen.

On thing this does is help new players understand which stuns are and aren't holdable then they'll know what to start looking for.

On another hand it makes room for keep out moves like JL's K4K and 3K4K to receive these types of stuns like a sit down stun to get more keep out potential, even if only on CH and higher.

Just some thoughts. A character like Eliot could really improve from this with moves like 3KP. The stun is fully slow escapable as it is now and while he might be able to get certain pokes (honestly Idk cause i havent played in so long) giving him more frame advantage at the cost of guaranteed damage would make his mix up potential more deadly as he would be able to launch off of thr sit down now while not overpowering him with the option to launch.

Just some thoughts. Sorry for the book.
 
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