Offline Rig matches

[GrandMasterson]

Me and KrayzieBone SoM believe that Rig is a much better character than many people seem to think. These are some videos of me and him playing offline to give people an idea of how to use his tools in the most effective way.

He is a Rig main and I main Zack. Any criticisms are very welcomed.
I'm only linking this one video, but if you check my channel, I've uploaded 3 other videos of Rig/Zack matches.

 

[DrDogg]

Me and KrayzieBone SoM believe that Rig is a much better character than many people seem to think. These are some videos of me and him playing offline to give people an idea of how to use his tools in the most effective way.

He is a Rig main and I main Zack. Any criticisms are very welcomed.
I'm only linking this one video, but if you check my channel, I've uploaded 3 other videos of Rig/Zack matches.

Can you point out what was shown in this video that indicates Rig is any better than most people believe he is?

I can break down the video point by point if you like, but I saw some missed guaranteed damage, a few unnecessary risks, poor positioning and a general lack of defense (blocking). I didn't see anything that makes me think Rig is any better than I thought he was before watching the video... which is essentially low tier or on the lower side of mid tier.

 

[GrandMasterson]

Can you point out what was shown in this video that indicates Rig is any better than most people believe he is?

I can break down the video point by point if you like, but I saw some missed guaranteed damage, a few unnecessary risks, poor positioning and a general lack of defense (blocking). I didn't see anything that makes me think Rig is any better than I thought he was before watching the video... which is essentially low tier or on the lower side of mid tier.

Please explain everything you are willing to.

Also, we are both sitting here right now if you'd like to try a few online matches with either one of us.

 

[DrDogg]

Please explain everything you are willing to.

Also, we are both sitting here right now if you'd like to try a few online matches with either one of us.

I'll go over it in the morning when I have more time. I'd still like to know what I should be taking from this video that shows me Rig is better than lower mid-tier.

As far as playing online... if you really want to we can, but that's not a very good medium to show why a character is good/bad. In fact, I'd say it's probably the worst way to prove anything in this game.

 

[GrandMasterson]

As far as playing online... if you really want to we can, but that's not a very good medium to show why a character is good/bad. In fact, I'd say it's probably the worst way to prove anything in this game.

I know that, but how else could we do it

 

[DrDogg]

I know that, but how else could we do it

If you want to play I guess we can. I wouldn't expect it to prove anything though. It's also unlikely I'll play many Rig mirror matches.

Are you guys going to any tournaments soon?

Video stuff:

Round 1

0:08 - Whiffed attack (that's unsafe on block); no punishment
0:09 - Starts Rig's running K (probably an input error for 66K - which is unsafe and shouldn't have been used anyway); running K has a long start-up and should not have been used in this situation.
0:15 - Attempted whiff punish with 236K. It gets blocked because it's far too slow to whiff punish in this situation. Then the follow-up gets interrupted. Why was this even used here?
0:16 - Double counter holds. Really? After a 2P stun your response is to double counter hold?
0:17 - Immediately following the double counter hold you start a string. So from -30 and out of range you start a PP string? Seriously?
0:18 - What's even worse is that Zack uses a low priority string (from out of range) and gets hit by the string that should have just whiffed.
0:22 - Bad combo. You don't have to always get max damage (although that's best), but at least finish the combo properly.
0:23 - Low counter. I assume this was in anticipation of Zack doing a wake-up kick. You're playing offline, why would you do this without any indication that the wake-up kick was coming?
0:29 - Rig moves to the right. Why? Before moving, the positioning meant that Rig had no environmental dangers behind him. Moving put the burning oil drum behind him.
0:31 - Rig gets knocked into the oil drum due to poor positioning.
0:33 - On wake-up Rig gets up with 6K. First off, you're at disadvantage in this situation, but you attack anyway. Secondly, why 6K? It's a mid kick, which most people are going to try to counter in a wake-up situation like this. What's worse is that it connects. What was Zack doing that allowed 6K on wake-up to beat him out?

Round 2

0:51 - Rig uses 236K to "cross-up" Zack on the ground. Why? What does Rig have from BT BND that would be good to use in this situation? What can Rig do if Zack delays his wake-up to auto-correct a wake-up kick? Why take this risk? What is the reward you'd get? How likely are you to even get that reward?
0:52 - From BT BND you use H+K, which is -4 on block. Then you followed with 6K, which is i13. So you attacked out of disadvantage when you shouldn't have. What's even worse is that Zack, one of the fastest characters in the game, gets hit. Why?
0:55 - Another 66K that completely whiffs. Again, it's unsafe and should only be used for whiff punishment AFTER the opponent whiffs and attack (or when an opponent low counters). Why was it used here?
1:00 - Normal mid-kick counter. Why didn't you use the advanced version? I can understand if you had a setup off of it, but you didn't because you got beat out by Zack's 2P right after the normal counter. If you don't have a setup, you should always be using the advanced counter.
1:05 - Please stop spamming holds. You weren't even stunned!
1:10 - Why did you use a wake-up kick here? Zack was no where near Rig, yet there was a wake-up kick. Why?
1:22 - Why did you use a wake-up kick? Your back was to the wall, you had almost no health and Zack was still at 50%. Using the wake-up kick killed you. Had you just gotten up without it, you would've still been alive.

Round 3

1:27 - Starting the round with PP? Why? Zack has a 9-frame jab, Rig has an 11-frame jab. What was your thought process here?
1:29 - Good block, but no punishment...
The end of this round - Zack... press block. There was no reason to get hit over and over by Rig on wake-up like that. Hold block... please.

Round 4

1:51 - Another whiffed 66K. Why?
1:54 - Another normal mid-kick hold without a proper setup to follow.
2:05 - BND 6K puts Zack in a sit-down stun. Rig gets a guaranteed launch, but instead goes for 6K. Why? This ends up getting him countered.
2:11 - Yet another whiffed 66K...
2:13 - Another normal mid-kick counter with no setup after...

 

[GrandMasterson]

If you want to play I guess we can. I wouldn't expect it to prove anything though. It's also unlikely I'll play many Rig mirror matches.

Are you guys going to any tournaments soon?
Krayzie wants to go to tournaments, but is unsure of how to go about setting up a scene in Houston. I'll be living in Japan for the next year, so I won't be able to compete with any American players.

Video stuff:

Round 1

0:08 - Whiffed attack (that's unsafe on block); no punishment
Bad on me. I should have run up and grab.

0:09 - Starts Rig's running K (probably an input error for 66K - which is unsafe and shouldn't have been used anyway); running K has a long start-up and should not have been used in this situation.
Bad on Krayzie. Just a spacing issue that can be improved.

0:15 - Attempted whiff punish with 236K. It gets blocked because it's far too slow to whiff punish in this situation. Then the follow-up gets interrupted. Why was this even used here?
Bad on Krayzie. As for why, everyone Krayzie plays respects Rig's 236K and follow up options. Krayzie has admitted (Zack's 2P is fast enough to interrupt, we are not sure if the rest of the cast can do this) that this is just a combination of bad habits (he mentions habits from DoA4 Jann Lee dragon kick) and an impulsive mistake.

0:16 - Double counter holds. Really? After a 2P stun your response is to double counter hold?
He baited me to rush in so he can punch me in the face. It worked. I should have reacted first and ran up in his face and grabbed him.

0:17 - Immediately following the double counter hold you start a string. So from -30 and out of range you start a PP string? Seriously?
See previous answer.

0:18 - What's even worse is that Zack uses a low priority string (from out of range) and gets hit by the string that should have just whiffed.
That attack was not out of range (it was not a spacing issue), it was an issue of using the wrong move.

0:22 - Bad combo. You don't have to always get max damage (although that's best), but at least finish the combo properly.
Krayzie says he was banking on me doing a mid kick counter so that the high kick would have kept me standing for more damage.

0:23 - Low counter. I assume this was in anticipation of Zack doing a wake-up kick. You're playing offline, why would you do this without any indication that the wake-up kick was coming?
Krayzie was anticipating me doing Zack's 2P.

0:29 - Rig moves to the right. Why? Before moving, the positioning meant that Rig had no environmental dangers behind him. Moving put the burning oil drum behind him.
Bad on Krayzie. Mistake in positioning.

0:31 - Rig gets knocked into the oil drum due to poor positioning.

0:33 - On wake-up Rig gets up with 6K. First off, you're at disadvantage in this situation, but you attack anyway. Secondly, why 6K? It's a mid kick, which most people are going to try to counter in a wake-up situation like this. What's worse is that it connects. What was Zack doing that allowed 6K on wake-up to beat him out?
I saw that he stood up and tried to continue pressure, but I failed to react on time. His 6K beat out whatever I was trying to do.

Round 2

0:51 - Rig uses 236K to "cross-up" Zack on the ground. Why? What does Rig have from BT BND that would be good to use in this situation? What can Rig do if Zack delays his wake-up to auto-correct a wake-up kick? Why take this risk? What is the reward you'd get? How likely are you to even get that reward?
Krayzie was anticipating me tech rolling. Additionally, his logic is that "who would expect someone to 236K after a knockdown"? If you watch again, I do delay my wake-up kick but it still doesn't auto-correct (I probably kicked to early). Because I'm now whiffing a wake-up attack, Rig gets to do his follow up 236K options.

0:52 - From BT BND you use H+K, which is -4 on block. Then you followed with 6K, which is i13. So you attacked out of disadvantage when you shouldn't have. What's even worse is that Zack, one of the fastest characters in the game, gets hit. Why?
I tried doing 2P after Krayzie did H+K (I realize now I should have jabbed) Krayzie's philosophy is that "who is going to expect me to attack at a disadvantage?"

0:55 - Another 66K that completely whiffs. Again, it's unsafe and should only be used for whiff punishment AFTER the opponent whiffs and attack (or when an opponent low counters). Why was it used here?

1:00 - Normal mid-kick counter. Why didn't you use the advanced version? I can understand if you had a setup off of it, but you didn't because you got beat out by Zack's 2P right after the normal counter. If you don't have a setup, you should always be using the advanced counter.

1:05 - Please stop spamming holds. You weren't even stunned!

1:10 - Why did you use a wake-up kick here? Zack was no where near Rig, yet there was a wake-up kick. Why?

1:22 - Why did you use a wake-up kick? Your back was to the wall, you had almost no health and Zack was still at 50%. Using the wake-up kick killed you. Had you just gotten up without it, you would've still been alive.

Round 3

1:27 - Starting the round with PP? Why? Zack has a 9-frame jab, Rig has an 11-frame jab. What was your thought process here?
Sometimes Krayzie starts the round with a high counter, because he knows I like to go jab happy at the start. I suppose he thought I was respecting that option and decided to initiate his own offense.

1:29 - Good block, but no punishment...
Not sure how to punish this. Grab?

The end of this round - Zack... press block. There was no reason to get hit over and over by Rig on wake-up like that. Hold block... please.
I honestly have no idea why I wasn't blocking. I think I was just trying to stand up and attack, thinking he would respect me doing a wakeup kick.

We weren't able to go through every question before I had to catch a flight. We'll answer the rest sometime tomorrow. Thanks a bunch for your input.

 

[DrDogg]

Krayzie wants to go to tournaments, but is unsure of how to go about setting up a scene in Houston. I'll be living in Japan for the next year, so I won't be able to compete with any American players.

Dallas has a scene, how far from there are you? I think Houston may have some players on these boards. Maybe make a Houston thread in the match finder forum?

Also, I'd recommend going to Final Round in Atlanta. It should be a good tournament experience for the first half of 2013.

Bad on Krayzie. As for why, everyone Krayzie plays respects Rig's 236K and follow up options. Krayzie has admitted (Zack's 2P is fast enough to interrupt, we are not sure if the rest of the cast can do this) that this is just a combination of bad habits (he mentions habits from DoA4 Jann Lee dragon kick) and an impulsive mistake.

This is just a matter of finding better (and more varied) competition. The Dragon Kick and Rig's 236K are not good attacks in most situations. They're slow and easy to see coming. Online they can work well, but offline, against anyone halfway decent, you're just asking to get punished for it.

If it does happen to get blocked, Rig is at significant advantage, but you still face the same issues with BND that you normally would. If you go high, the opponent can step or crush, if you go mid, the opponent can step or block, if you go low, the opponent can step, block or crush. So it's still the same guessing game, only you risk a lot to get it started.

Krayzie was anticipating me doing Zack's 2P.

Zack's 2P on normal hit is -1 and inflicts 5 points of damage. Take the hit and continue your pressure. Why risk going for a low counter in this situation?

Krayzie was anticipating me tech rolling. Additionally, his logic is that "who would expect someone to 236K after a knockdown"? If you watch again, I do delay my wake-up kick but it still doesn't auto-correct (I probably kicked to early). Because I'm now whiffing a wake-up attack, Rig gets to do his follow up 236K options.

I get that, but Rig has very limited options from BT BND and none that are particularly fast or would work well in this situation.

I tried doing 2P after Krayzie did H+K (I realize now I should have jabbed) Krayzie's philosophy is that "who is going to expect me to attack at a disadvantage?"

This is not a good philosophy to have. It's true that few people would expect an attack from disadvantage, but because of that, they assume they can attack. 9 times out of 10, their attack is going to beat you out because you were at disadvantage.

Not sure how to punish this. Grab?

A throw is always the default form of punishment. In some cases you can get attack punishment, but in pretty much every case you can get throw punishment.