DOA5U The Official Tier List with Discussion Thread

[J.D.E.]

The only things that I know about Naotora is that she takes a lot of risks & she's string heavy (on paper) She does do a decent amount of damage from what I've seen so far from people who use her. Who knows? Maybe someone who mains her will step forward. May need a little bit more time to figure her & her match ups out.

 

[RenderingStar]

Naotora isn't good. I'd say highest a D maybe a C if you wanna be nice. She's easy to interrupt. Her string delay is bad, she has good damage but you have to work hard to get it. I think she relies heavily on reads and be defensive. Also I think her defensive options aren't that good either but good luck haha. I don't think she's viable on a high level she's to easy to shut down....

 

[KasumiLover]

That's what I'm starting to think too. When I DID have wifi, most other Naos just rushed down and they got shut down. When I used her and just kept a distance and punished whiffs, that's where she shined...you shouldn't be using her full 6K and K strings up close anyhow, they're much too linear and are better from a distance. I think it's the way people are using her typically that makes her look crummy, she's not rushdown at all unless you're a risk taker. Almost everyone's neutral punch frames are superior to her up close.

 

[RenderingStar]

She isn't good imo but keep looking if you feel she has something hidden

 

[DestructionBomb]

That's what I'm starting to think too. When I DID have wifi, most other Naos just rushed down and they got shut down. When I used her and just kept a distance and punished whiffs, that's where she shined...you shouldn't be using her full 6K and K strings up close anyhow, they're much too linear and are better from a distance. I think it's the way people are using her typically that makes her look crummy, she's not rushdown at all unless you're a risk taker. Almost everyone's neutral punch frames are superior to her up close.

Just for the sake of info, you shouldn't ever determine a final outcome match up/tiers based on how players use her/play. Reason being is that it's random factors of determining skill level which is the most difficult to get feedback on in regards to getting proper match up charts or where a character is placed in tiers, some people could do extremely bad against a character while playing with their main character, while others who play the same character do exceptionally well against the character the other player is having trouble with. Another example is 'I was doing so bad against X character against X player using Naotora, I think it's Naotora's worst match up - *The following day* - I was doing so well against same X character against same X player, I think Naotora has more advantage here or better character.' We can't just downright assume she's in a good/bad placing off the bat because you just had a good/bad game (Not saying you, but just an example). Players you meet online isn't a sure way for a definite answer because the player is probably unfamiliar with the match or simply not up to par with the player he/she is playing against. Naotora could be on a 70 winstreak but there is also a possibility that it could be a player thing or skill level gap from the opponent towards the player and not the character, which is why it's difficult to find out.

It is usually best to determine where she is in tools, tests against other characters, how easy/difficult the other character can avoid/strike/defend/options etc. However DOA's tier list and match up chart is difficult simply because anything could happen and the majority of the cast (except Alpha) has access to a hold mechanic. Basically a not-so-strong character in the game (who also has a hold function) can easily win a match if the player knows when to hold or holds majority of everything while avoiding throws in the long run. Holds lead to damage, good damage to boot if timed right killing momentum or environmental situations. Some holds in the game is about as strong as a stun launch 1 combo. DOA is one of the games where random shit can happen, and certain random shit can take a lot of health without truly knowing why.

 

[KasumiLover]

I see your point DB, that actually cleared up ALOT of my confusion in how to determine if a character is actually a good MU for another or not. XD I guess for now until we get some more solid evidence, the more accurate way is just keep the other fighters' tools into account.

She isn't good imo but keep looking if you feel she has something hidden

Oh, I will, I'm not gonna give up on her yet. /

 

[RenderingStar]

good luck lol

 

[SilverForte]

Everyone can do work in this game so don't worry too much about it. If you enjoy using her keep on doing it.

 

[KasumiLover]

Everyone can do work in this game so don't worry too much about it. If you enjoy using her keep on doing it.

Thank you, I promise I will

 

[DestructionBomb]

I think she isn't all that great but I am willing to be corrected. Forte has a point as well, for now I wouldn't worry about the tier list. (At least for quite awhile until there are some serious changes.)

 

[J.D.E.]

I would say just keep playing her & not worry about the tier discussion right now. Lab it up & grind hard with her & then see what you have. Don't get too caught up into what other people say because they tend to change & they may not know something that you do (unless it's someone who is actually extremely knowledgeable at the game). Opinions are definitely welcomed in tier discussions, but the more facts that are brought to the table, the further along the discussion will go. If she is considered low tier, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're "terrible". I know this sounds like it's sugarcoating, but it really isn't. There's a barrier in the game that creates a gap in between the stronger characters & then the weaker characters. That determines the viability of the characters.

In DOA5, everyone can win. Everyone is actually decent. It's just some characters are designed to be stronger & some of them are designed for players to actually put in more work. It's in every game. Look at GG. Not that it's DOA, but Jam is a character in GG Revelator & she's considered weak. Yet, she's very decent once you learn her & can compete with anyone. She may struggle in the match (On paper), but when a good player is using her, it's much harder to actually fight her than sitting & talking from a theoretical standpoint. Now, people don't feel that she's as weak as she was led on to be at 1st.

So yeah, if you like her just keep rolling with her. Honestly, if you had more players who were character specialist (playing only their true mains instead of more than 1 or 2), then you would have way more to discuss for each character, but you don't so you can only do what you can.

 

[KasumiLover]

I would say just keep playing her & not worry about the tier discussion right now. Lab it up & grind hard with her & then see what you have. Don't get too caught up into what other people say because they tend to change & they may not know something that you do (unless it's someone who is actually extremely knowledgeable at the game). Opinions are definitely welcomed in tier discussions, but the more facts that are brought to the table, the further along the discussion will go. If she is considered low tier, it doesn't mean that they're "terrible". I know this sounds like it's sugarcoating, but it really isn't. There's a barrier in the game that creates a gap in between the stronger characters & then the weaker characters. That determines the viability of the characters.

In DOA5, everyone can win. Everyone is actually decent. It's just some characters are designed to be stronger & some of them are designed for players to actually put in more work. It's in every game. Look at GG. Not that it's DOA, but Jam is a character in GG Revelator & she's considered weak. Yet, she's very decent once you learn her & can compete with anyone. She may struggle in the match (On paper), but when a good player is using her, it's much harder to actually fight her than sitting & talking from a theoretical standpoint. Now, people don't feel that she's as weak as she was led on to be at 1st.

So yeah, if you like her just keep rolling with her. Honestly, if you had more players who were character specialist (playing only their true mains instead of more than 1 or 2), then you would have way more to discuss for each character, but you don't so you can only do what you can.

Oh believe me, I will, I love Naotora with all my heart, probably just as much as I do Kasumi. I've never really worried about tiers though, I just choose a character I like and if they are low tier, so be it, I'll make it work. I honestly wish there were other Naotora players I could really discuss with, but the Naotora forums have been dead for quite a while and I've been just kinda lurking and training and discovering more stuff myself. :-/ I think she has potential, but most players are intimidated by her linearity to resume using her, I'm surprised whenever I do see a Naotora match up on youtube now, simply because alot of players just don't use her seriously anymore. :-(

 

[J.D.E.]

Oh believe me, I will, I love Naotora with all my heart, probably just as much as I do Kasumi. I've never really worried about tiers though, I just choose a character I like and if they are low tier, so be it, I'll make it work. I honestly wish there were other Naotora players I could really discuss with, but the Naotora forums have been dead for quite a while and I've been just kinda lurking and training and discovering more stuff myself. :-/ I think she has potential, but most players are intimidated by her linearity to resume using her, I'm surprised whenever I do see a Naotora match up on youtube now, simply because alot of players just don't use her seriously anymore. :-(

Yeah, it's going to be like until someone brings her up & beats people with her. Always have been. People are excited to play her & then once they start uncovering her in the lab, they get caught in a pickle & then label them bad only because of what they find instead of actually sticking her out & playing with to really find out how she fares against everyone. From 1 character to the next. That's how it always has been. It was like that for Kasumi players in vanilla until its 1st NEC tournament. Helena & Others as well.

Tiers are important & informative to know, but people in community forums often use them as an excuse as to why they're struggle to play the said character. It doesn't guarantee you a win or a loss. It's just IF & only IF the characters are played correctly, then this would be how they would play out. So you're going to hear people complain & people downplay until they see good players who know how to play them either thrax them or players in tournaments. Then that's when they'll start jumping on the bandwagon then, just like they do a top tier character.

 

[DestructionBomb]

DOA is one of the few games where even the worst characters can win due to the mechanic behind it and the opponent making mistakes from it. If a player has knowledge from the character as well as a grasp towards the game they can potentially win even without exactly trying too hard. Whereas other fighters, you can get slapped hard for picking a lower end character with your options eliminated while trying hard to overcome it within the process.

 

[KasumiLover]

DOA is one of the few games where even the worst characters can win due to the mechanic behind it and the opponent making mistakes from it. If a player has knowledge from the character as well as a grasp towards the game they can potentially win even without exactly trying too hard. Whereas other fighters, you can get slapped hard for picking a lower end character with your options eliminated while trying hard to overcome it within the process.

Exactly, I mean just look at Kwiggles winning with Phase 4 and Xcaliburblades winning with Eliot....against CHRISTIE, who's considered top tier! Plus to me, it's much more rewarding winning with a lower tier character than one who's considered high, excluding high execution characters as those types take dedication and effort to utilize.

 

[Matt Ponton]

People just need to understand that "Top Tier" does not mean "Auto-win", and "Low tier" does not mean "Never win".

Tiers only tell you how much of an advantage (i.e., good options available at any one time) a character has in a given match. That's it.

Too often you just see scrubs or randoms get all up-in-arms over the fact a character they like is "looked down upon" because they're "low tier".

Also, players of a character will tend to overestimate their own character's weaknesses, typically saying the advantages aren't as severe as they really are. Looking from an opponent's view of a situation is very difficult for many to perform.

 

[SilverForte]

Well, yes, until Ivan ooze is entered into the equation that is, heh.

But for real, yes, don't let tiers decide your char, especially in this game where even the worst chars can win if you can use em well. 3d fighters are better balanced in this regard.

 

[crapoZK]

Look at GG. Not that it's DOA, but Jam is a character in GG Revelator & she's considered weak. Yet, she's very decent once you learn her & can compete with anyone. She may struggle in the match (On paper), but when a good player is using her, it's much harder to actually fight her than sitting & talking from a theoretical standpoint. Now, people don't feel that she's as weak as she was led on to be at 1st.

THIS. I play Jam and Zato-1/Eddie in XX and I'm looking forward to playing her in Xrd Rev. The same could be said for Zato-1 but the opposite. He's top-tier but he's rarely played because of his ridiculous difficulty. As you know, GG is entirely player-based. A top Chipp player could beat the top Zato player simply because of his knowledge of the character (The fights that my brother and I have are crazy lmao, but he still wins because he's got more knowledge of the match up then I do, and I'm supposed to destroy him on paper) and the strategy people use to win.

The same prospect I used for DOA and other fighting games. "It's not the character, it's the player"

 

[XxNoriakixX]

So what do you guys think about leifang ? America placed her very high in the tiers while japan lists her as B-tier even behind characters like bayman and hitomi while both countries only have a few characters where both think the same way like helena, gen fu and ayane

 

[KasumiLover]

I think Lei is good character, but her average speed and linearity forfeit her a much higher tier level. Her holds are great, but imo it doesn't guarantee a win, anyone can simply stun her, and when the Lei player tries to do an expert hold, presto! Instant hi counter throw punish.