The Art Style and Graphics Discussion
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Juihau
Well-Known Member
It means that the image on screen changes 60 times in a second. The higher the frame rate, the smoother movement appears to be. If you've ever noticed a game starting to feel "choppy" when there's a lot going on at once on screen, that's due to the frame rate dropping below whatever it was previous. Here's a comparison of 30 fps vs 60.
Generally, though, frame rate is more of a gameplay concern than a graphical one. A higher frame rate means that you have more information per second to work with, and also helps gameplay feel smooth.
Actually, since you have Nioh. There is a setting in there called Movie/Cinematic mode. The game locks up to 30fps when you select that one whereas Action mode lowers the shadow resolution and graphical display for 60fps rough gameplay. Nioh particularly has a really obvious difference between 30fps and 60fps. When you are playing in Movie mode you feel a lot more of the static stops and more sluggish on the entire motion of the game or in case like mentioned previously, choppy gameplay, but because NiOh is a really fast paced game it's more or less torturing yourself to get the better gameplay portion if you are playing in Movie mode. Try the two and you will spot the difference.
There is also another mode called Variable, but unless you have a PS4 pro this is pretty much worthless. Variable = 32-45fps. PS4 Pro with Variable turned on = 45-55fps (cutscenes will be at 60fps).
A simple way to say, if fps drops tremendously it's not alright. If it goes up that's good.
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Shirataki Tsume
Well-Known Member
1 image comes out 1/60 of a second; 60 images following each other in just 1 second, and then another 60 images in another second. It makes moving objects in a video appear they're in motion. The more frames, the smoother it looks.
Video editors that allow you to count frames can help you understand frame rate more because trying to understand frames by just looking at a video really doesn't help... One couldn't normally tell which video is 25fps and the other is 30fps unless they count the number of frames in a duration of 1 second.
Jackie Chan Fan
Well-Known Member
Like how Digital Foundry display frames per second of the games they review and/or compare.
It affects graphics in that you have to render the graphics twice as fast since you're rendering 30 additional frames every second. If your GPU can't handle it then you have to lower your graphical fidelity in order to run 30 fps smoothly. Otherwise you get some janky in between of 45ish fps that varies depending on what has to render on the screen.
To add to what others already said:
Stable 30 frames per second are usually perfectly fine in games where gameplay doesn't rely on fast reaction and perfect timing. All fighting games, most racing games and many shooters run in 60fps instead of the standard 30fps however.
Graphical fidelity is usually lowered in 60fps games (if you are not playing on a beefy PC), because the engine has to generate douple the frames/images in one second. That's why games like Tekken 7 or Nier Automata don't look as nice as games like Uncharted 4 or Horizon Zero Dawn, and why Shadow of the Colossus on PS4 Pro in performance mode (60fps) doesn't look as crisp and clean as cinematic mode (30fps). Still, an open world game looking as good as SotC, and running at 60fps on a console, is close to black magic.
There are a lot of reasons why Tekken 7 doesn't look as good as Uncharted 4.
Argentus
Well-Known Member
lol what?
Nier looks freakin phenomenal.
It's an art style difference. The nier bots aren't supposed to look hyper realistic.
Whereas the people in HZD look kinda ugly. Which is a design problem, not a technical problem.
Tekken though....yeah.
I still look at it like....if I already have a ps4, there's no reason to buy a whole new console just for slightly better graphics, but if I didnt already have one, or mine broke down or something, i'd upgrade to a Pro for sure.
We were talking about framerate and technical performances of games, now Argentus comes with his narrow stylistical/artistical preferences and his weird hate boner for HZD again. *sighs*
Nier: Automata, for being an open world game/semi open world game and running at 60fps (though by no means stable) and to suit Platinum Game's frenetic and fast-paced combat action, has to make a lot of technical cutbacks in its overall presentation on weaker hardware.
On base PS4 the game in return for running more or less at 60fps has to run in 900p resolution, while at the same time lacking any antialiasing, which leads to a crude image quality with lots of jaggies and shimmering on polygon lines and textures.
(Clearly visible in images, even worse in motion though.)
The world is filled with low resolution textures that have no to very low set texture filtering, which makes ground textures and other textures at oblique angles look like slush in medium to long distances. Graphical settings in general had to be dialed back significantly.
This is not looking "phenomenal" by any means and it looks objectively worse compared to a game like Horizon Zero Dawn on a technical level.
The PS4 Pro version as well as the PC version of Nier Automata, due to running on more powerful hardware, do fix many of those problems. More stable framerates at higher resolutions, greater image quality and overall higher graphical settings, which are all, again, technical aspects.
If anyone is interested to educate themselves on that matter check out Digital Foundry's great tech analyses of the PS4/PS4 Pro and PC versions:
@King Anubis, I don't know if you have played Nier: Automata or plan to, but in this case you owning a Pro really helps to get more stability and quality out of the game's technical performance.
It runs at more stable 60fps on Pro, in full HD resolution, added antialiasing, better texture filtering, better lighting and shadow maps and most importantly added motion blur, to make the game extra smooth.
Now, looking at all that footage of Nier: Automata some might say it is an unattractive game, being all brown, washed out and desolate and the characters looking like plastic anime dolls. That's a whole other discussion though, going into the artistic direction.
My personal take on that is: It's an acquired taste. It depends on if you like that setting and look and if you like anime-stylized characters. At the very least the look is very distinct, cohesive and it evokes a certain and strong mood. Animation work is objectively outstanding in that game.
Coming back to Horizon Zero Dawn, and I am repeating myself here, it is not meant to look realistic either. Hyperrealism, contrary to what it sounds like, is not meant to look realistic, but is also a form of stylization and art. If anyone wants to educate themselves on that matter, here's some interesting material:
https://kotaku.com/horizon-zero-dawn-looks-unnaturally-good-because-of-hyp-1793570455
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperrealism_(visual_arts)
Nier: Automata, for being an open world game/semi open world game and running at 60fps (though by no means stable) and to suit Platinum Game's frenetic and fast-paced combat action, has to make a lot of technical cutbacks in its overall presentation on weaker hardware.
On base PS4 the game in return for running more or less at 60fps has to run in 900p resolution, while at the same time lacking any antialiasing, which leads to a crude image quality with lots of jaggies and shimmering on polygon lines and textures.
(Clearly visible in images, even worse in motion though.)
The world is filled with low resolution textures that have no to very low set texture filtering, which makes ground textures and other textures at oblique angles look like slush in medium to long distances. Graphical settings in general had to be dialed back significantly.
This is not looking "phenomenal" by any means and it looks objectively worse compared to a game like Horizon Zero Dawn on a technical level.
The PS4 Pro version as well as the PC version of Nier Automata, due to running on more powerful hardware, do fix many of those problems. More stable framerates at higher resolutions, greater image quality and overall higher graphical settings, which are all, again, technical aspects.
If anyone is interested to educate themselves on that matter check out Digital Foundry's great tech analyses of the PS4/PS4 Pro and PC versions:
@King Anubis, I don't know if you have played Nier: Automata or plan to, but in this case you owning a Pro really helps to get more stability and quality out of the game's technical performance.
It runs at more stable 60fps on Pro, in full HD resolution, added antialiasing, better texture filtering, better lighting and shadow maps and most importantly added motion blur, to make the game extra smooth.
Now, looking at all that footage of Nier: Automata some might say it is an unattractive game, being all brown, washed out and desolate and the characters looking like plastic anime dolls. That's a whole other discussion though, going into the artistic direction.
My personal take on that is: It's an acquired taste. It depends on if you like that setting and look and if you like anime-stylized characters. At the very least the look is very distinct, cohesive and it evokes a certain and strong mood. Animation work is objectively outstanding in that game.
Coming back to Horizon Zero Dawn, and I am repeating myself here, it is not meant to look realistic either. Hyperrealism, contrary to what it sounds like, is not meant to look realistic, but is also a form of stylization and art. If anyone wants to educate themselves on that matter, here's some interesting material:
https://kotaku.com/horizon-zero-dawn-looks-unnaturally-good-because-of-hyp-1793570455
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperrealism_(visual_arts)
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Radiance
Well-Known Member
Good rendering. 3DS Max or Maya? My only concern is that it's really dark; maybe place the lighting else where. Did you touch it up afterwards in Photoshop, or it's as is?
Argentus
Well-Known Member
Yeah that's what I mean. The difference is negligible at best, so it's not worth buying a whole new console over unless you simple dont have a ps4, then get a pro.
Like it'd be nice to play it on a pro, but playing it on a regular ps4 didnt hurt the game at all, either.
I REALLY need to back and finish the second playthrough though haha.
Guys, watch this leaked God of War gameplay footage while you can!! it's probably soon taken down again:
FINALLY!! I can't believe it took this long, only 4 weeks before release, to see actual, final gameplay footage of the game. And it had to be leaked, lol.
So there is a UI (not really pretty), lifebars and such...and the camera does zoom farther out during combat. It feels much more like the usual action adventure now. Which is a good thing.
Now graphically I'm not that impressed to be honest. :/ I feel like the game took a big hit from when it was first announced. The environmental detail, the lighting and all were on a different level back then. It doesn't look bad now...just okay. The least of what you would expect from a AAA game at this late point in the current generation.
The Kratos model is insane though... It might be the most detailed/polished in-game character model in any game so far.
FINALLY!! I can't believe it took this long, only 4 weeks before release, to see actual, final gameplay footage of the game. And it had to be leaked, lol.
So there is a UI (not really pretty), lifebars and such...and the camera does zoom farther out during combat. It feels much more like the usual action adventure now. Which is a good thing.
Now graphically I'm not that impressed to be honest. :/ I feel like the game took a big hit from when it was first announced. The environmental detail, the lighting and all were on a different level back then. It doesn't look bad now...just okay. The least of what you would expect from a AAA game at this late point in the current generation.
The Kratos model is insane though... It might be the most detailed/polished in-game character model in any game so far.
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Nuke-Nin
Well-Known Member
Blender actually, straight from blender lol but yeah I didn't think a bright scene would fit him but i'll try it
Chapstick
Well-Known Member
This is not negligible at best, depending on the TV you’re using it’s extremely noticeable
Also @Nier’s framerate, it’s unstable as hell even on pro. IIRC one of the patches did that and it used to run a lot better when it first came out.
UpSideDownGRUNT
Well-Known Member
Actually iirc, Automata's framerate is actually more stable on base PS4 for some reason. there's a few times that lag on pro but are perfectly fin on PS4 its awkward also the PC version is botched as hell.
I never really noticed the graphics that much though, with an ARPG I'm more concerned with it running well than looking pretty. For a game with a budget that wasn't that big and wasn't a big AAA title(within its first year it only sold 2.5 million) it's really good, though admittedly that is mostly cuz Platinum did the gameplay.