Free Step Dodge

Zangief & Mika could do it anywhere too.... granted those where command throws so no Option Select there.

Really Rachel's stomp didn't seem any different from Mila's or Bayman's Ground Throw Option Selects....

I think you forgot that Rachel was +7 on a stomp whiff (Yes WHIFF! +15 on hit). Mila gets, like, around +1 on a ground throw whiff in comparison. This also has to take into account how powerful Rachel's offense was when she hits her opponent. I.e. You can get vortexed for the remainder of the round off of one CH stun.

She was a very unfair, borderline braindead character before the justified nerfs.

Sorry just not seeing it... And I'm pretty Sure Mila had OS' s that could match that same 7 Frame Advantage.... Tina too.

Was she Brain dead... Yep, No Doubt about it... did she break the game ? Not from what I've seen...

You could still take on the best Rachel players with whomever you want... tedious as it was having to deal with.

"You could still take on the best Rachel players with whomever you want...." Vanilla Rachel? Good joke. What vortex os did Tina have again? I played her for awhile and I don't recall. Mila had a vortex but wasn't as plus as Rachel's.

a skilled roy can beat any fox

i too am curious to know how an anywhere on screen plus on whiff stomp wasn't some dumb op shit

http://www.freestepdodge.com/threads/tinas-ground-grab-guide.6121/

With The exception of maybe Bass and Nyotengo All the characters with Ground Grabs could achieve that coveted +7 if they could just get the launch... just like Rachel.

Tina has one thats +7, a couple that are +6 and a few more that are +5.

This is why I don't get the "Rachel was OP statements." She wasn't the only one who had them.

Those are not comparable lol. If I down grabbed someone with Tina the neutral game is reset and my opponent had the option to wakeup kick. 5U Rachel, if the stomp landed I was +, if the stomp whiffed I was still +. I would gladly be down grabbed by Tina for the shit damage it does and a reset neutral lol.

Thats where Bayman comes in... If his ground throw connects then you can deliberately let the 2nd part of the multi-throw get Broken for that +3 Advantage. Mila could and still can do the same thing for +0.

More importantly, Could Rachel even setup unholdables off a successful Stomp ?

I don't think she could.

Again... I get why she was stupid annoying but I don't get she was super OP ?

eh ,kinda have to call bullshit on that, yeah rachel wasn't the only character with a vortex and + on whiff ground options, but not all vortexes are created equally. Nyotengu has a vortex, but the amount stipulations needed to even create that situation are too many to the point where it's kinda useless, or at best situational

Those were intentional designs by Team Ninja for grapplers specifically. Bayman needs those tools to make up for what he lacks. Rachel essentially lacks nothing. Speed, damage, weight, on top of an unintentional vortex. thus it was removed. Even you broke Baymans throw, it wasn't something he could rinse and repeat.

the only situation rachel needed was a launch, it didn't matter how high, what the opponents weight was, what the opponents critical level was or what launcher she used ('cept maybe for 4h+k, maybe), it was a very favorable situation (a vortex for her) off of a very common situation (a launch at any height) , and that's what made it powerful

@Radiance
Thats exactly the point I'm trying to make with Rachel.... she couldn't easily just get the Launch either... really the whole stomp thing was only an issue if you disrespected the Advantage from either outcome and got Counter Hit launched into yet another Option Select...

If she goes for that setup then a simple back tech into A Fuzzy Guard can swing the advabtage back in your favour. And from there its Business as usual.

As for what she lacks... She doesn't have that great string manipulation or hyper advantageous Guard Breaks. They weren't bad but they weren't that good either.... except for PP.

@Camel with 2 thumbs
So could Bayman... infact his launchers were better than Rachel's... they were faster... which means even though he only gets +2 and Rachel gets +7... thats all he needed for his next launcher to be uncontested.... not his next jab mind you... his next Launcher.

Lastly I don't try to judge anything by whether it was unintentional or not.

Seriously what difference does it make... if something works then it works...if it doesn't then it doesn't. Doesn't matter if it was by accident.

Don't believe me ? Try Lootboxes, Microtransaction or Day 1 DLC... and tell if any intention on any of things changed your perception on how they are implimented.

"Rachel doesnt have good string manipulation". Thanks, casual player feedback noted

I said Great... not Good.

More importantly if you disagree but offer no evidence to the contrary then... well... I'm going to stop here before I say something hurtful and derail this whole thing.

Really I just want to know exactly why Rachel was so overpowered.... I just want to know what is it I'm missing ?


Because I always assumed the reason TN nerfed the stomp was because it made playing With or Against Rachel too boring and predictable since the Stomp was just better than any thing else.

I always assumed it was nerfed for the sake of Variety more than for the sake of Balance.