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Yep, anybody can do this, apparently, but it's very nasty for the grapplers and Helena in particular.

Is escape to guarding 4k fast, or fastest? Humans are going to have a real hard time getting out if 4k requires fastest escape (which it must). Don't use 6pp2k 2f+p. Bad idea. Use 6pp6k 8p to pseudo force tech. However you slice it it's a winner. I don't know if using 6ppk after the launch...

Don't let them get wakeup kicks. End your juggles with p6pp 3f+k or p+k 2f+p to force tech or get mount. If by some chance they are on the ground then your best bet is just to counter the wakeup kicks.

Passing a value judgement on a shitty implementation is not a meaningless statement, except to the extent any value judgement is objectively meaningless. We're not saying "online is meaningless" in some abstract sense, we're saying it's just so bad it can't really reflect how the game is...

To be fair, you were playing online. Mash random buttons and win is actually a really strong strategy online for Helena, and it can be hard to tell the difference. Which is why online sucks.

A true force tech is inescapable, it either comes from a hard knockdown that can't be teched (e.g. Mila's 3f+k into 2p 3f+k) or it hits in the few vulnerable frames before an opponent can tech (Helena's 9k 1ppk juggle). You just have to take the damage and defend from disadvantage. A pseudo...

I don't actually know if they can remove her pseudo techs without a general system overhaul, and honestly they shouldn't; it's one of the things the slower characters absolutely need to stay alive in this game. I agree completely that she needs buffs if anything, especially on the 33p4p or...

Alright, clearly wasn't clear. So: Get stun, hit 4k then hit f+p. You can then 1) Let the takedown from 4fk f+p go; if they hold high or mid you catch them, if they stagger escape or hold low you should end up with slight advantage. 2) Cancel the takedown with f, in which case you can use...

No, you're canceling your takedown after 4k hits. Use 4k then f+p after the hit.

So it's only the +11 after a CB launch. I'll have to check but p+k might still be preferable then.

So Jefffcore has found that p6pp will give a 3f+k pseudo tech at something like +11 on tech for everybody, and as far as I know you can always get that on just about everybody after 3p launches. Which it should do after a 3pp guaranteed. So forget going for p+k after that and just 3p to p6pp...

Exactly, it's all the benefits of taking the mount but with better damage and only mildly increased risk and oh you can do almost anything you want (does 7k work?, guessing it must if takedown will interrupt 11 frame mids). If 3f+k hits then you get damage and you can still do whatever you want...

Sorry, I thought in the other thread you were saying 3h+k gives you like +0 if they tech from p6pp. That's got to be closer to +11 at least then. That's actually ridiculous. Edit: Ah, went back and reread the thread, it was p6pp 3pp you meant. That's still really good. If p6pp 3f+k works this...

This is Mila specific and can be difficult online, but you should look into 4k f+p rather than 3kk after a 2h+k or 4h+k stun. If you whiff the f+p you're actually still at advantage usually. Better yet, if you cancel the f+p you can use all the takedown cancel options or let it ride and...

You've found one of Tina's big weaknesses, especially online. To a certain extent you can't do much but 236p, 6f+k or 66p+k if they really want to run away, or if you're confident enough running up to shining wizard can work. Run up 1k might be worth a try against some people. In theory you...

Just to clarify, this is the 2f+p low throw or the 2f+p ground throw to mount after break? If it's the former you're at +25. You can do almost literally anything after that with the caveat that they can still counter from that situation.

Well, Tina's really good, and you just described why pretty well. But she has to get that first hit in, and that's where her weakness is. That's why she needs all the options she has because she has to make the most of them when she gets the chance. I wouldn't say her stun options are all that...

2 frames is everything in VF, though. I can 6p after blocked p and always, always beat 2p offline. Doesn't always happen online and it drives me fucking nuts. The netcode is much, much better than DOA5 but the frame data is so tightly tuned any deviation is hard to deal with. Plus you start...

Hence why I'm probably moving on to Tekken. I'd just go back to VF5FS if it didn't seem like it was a ghost town (also, there's just enough lag to make some things that should work not work in my experience and it's fucking maddening). Competent netcode has helped the fighting game scene keep...

Sure, with environmental damage, that's real high damage. It's also holdable every step of the way. newtype was claiming that you could do that with only one chance to get out, and that's simply not the case. Technically I am pretty sure that the last hit of kk could give you a path to an...