6++ Gameplay Overhaul

[Gill Hustle]

I personally feel Fatal Rush in some limited capacity would be welcome.

For Mila, Ayane, and Kasumi I know how to use my moves with them but I don't know rest of cast to say who's losing out.

Stuff like the juggle Marie Rose could do seemed like enough to make character "fun" without breaking things.

I said limiting to how they work in 6 with say 3part string with no ender. Enough to give characters some flair, guarantee a launch combo (that's scaled) and another tool to punish random SS.

You can normal hold them, they're High, slow and totally unsafe, and DOA players still spam low hold after all these years anyways

 

[crapoZK]

Keeping Fatal Rush in the game without the Fatal Stun could be great to be honest.

They're fun to use in combos and to be honest most characters have such good animations with them (Rig).

Maybe only you can get a Fatal Stun with the FR strings if you catch somebody stepping but not on NH or any of the counters? And only on the first move? Ouuuuu depth~ Dunno how that could be implemented but sure would be a cool ass thing to see.

 

[DestructionBomb]

I haven't played DOA6 in over a year and a half woo boy lol. I've heard of a custom build being in the works but this is the first time I heard of a public release so I'm curious to try it.

I am actually curious of a version where no meter is involved because the first step into figuring out whether it's good/bad is to actually test it and go from there. I see no real harm of giving it a shot lol.

I can probably dig heavily deep in tech again because dear lord i've been doing it for YEARS, so I think I'll have a legitimate reason to play any DOA6.

 

[Gill Hustle]

I personally gotta test how it flows in base 6.

I think 3 part chain from FR was where players would look for the BH and put cast majority in good recovery spot to get their launch.

Of one or 2 hits it doesn't feel like a sequence visually imo and at 3 at least the player can recognize what happened and what happens afterwards .

 

[crapoZK]

I personally gotta test how it flows in base 6.

I think 3 part chain from FR was where players would look for the BH and put cast majority in good recovery spot to get their launch.

Of one or 2 hits it doesn't feel like a sequence visually imo and at 3 at least the player can recognize what happened and what happens afterwards .

This is true, but people would look for the BH after 3 hits because the 4th hit was where the Break Blow would come out - was better to wait and see if your enemy would blow their meter and hold accordingly than to hold pre-emptively and have your enemy keep it.

Now that that's out of the equation we gotta figure out where we could possibly put FR in the game without them being annoying. Maybe you get 3 hits on FR if catching a step and CH (Which in turn means stun too), but not on NH? FR getting FS on NH in 6++ seems a bit busted. The full FR string does no damage so I don't really see a problem with this - I'm just worried about if this will create a Stun > FR > Launch meta. If it does, combos using this formula would have to be scaled pretty heavily.

Would definitely have to be tested multiple times before roll out for sure.

 

[Gill Hustle]

This is true, but people would look for the BH after 3 hits because the 4th hit was where the Break Blow would come out - was better to wait and see if your enemy would blow their meter and hold accordingly than to hold pre-emptively and have your enemy keep it.

Now that that's out of the equation we gotta figure out where we could possibly put FR in the game without them being annoying. Maybe you get all 4 hits on FS if catching a step and CH (Which in turn means stun too), but not on NH? The full Fatal Rush string does no damage so I don't really see a problem with this - I'm just worried about if this will create a Stun > FR > Launch meta. If it does, combos using this formula would have to be scaled pretty heavily.

Would definitely have to be tested multiple times before roll out for sure.

But isn't Fatal Rush scaled heavily to begin with?

If there's no more Break Blow the most anyone would get is a reset or scaled combo and thats AFTER the first hit connects.

On block they're bad, firts hit can be held or ducked its ONLY use is fundamentally a check to SS.

 

[EmeryReigns]

Yeah, he was so bad for the game that the creators and publishers hired him and paid him to talk about their game. We all know about DOA's shortcomings, we all know that DOA5 was the better game - but at the same time what good are you? You don't appear to be down for the community to improve the game and you don't like the original so what do you want and why are you here?

I apologize for this Emery it's embarrassing when the sort of thing happens, and these types of players come around. We all went down together with DOA6, but there is a more strategical way of getting what you want in this life and Rob hasn't found it yet for himself because he's too busy slamming everyone else to look at himself.

Yeah I’m not paying this random dude any more attention. He had to be addressed either way.

 

[EmeryReigns]

Alright, I'm really not trying to derail this thread so let's call it a day on trying to find the reason our favourite game flopped. It's unfortunate, but it was also 3 years ago. Onto the fun.

I read the patch notes for this and watched y'alls streams for this DOA6++ thing. Got a couple praises and a couple notes to touch upon.

• I do like the fact that BH is gone, and the removal of meter. If it was better tuned for reasons we already know and can't change it would be amazing but that's out of our hands. This makes Fatal Stuns / moves that restrict you from holding upon hit force looking out for certain attacks in the stun game and can in turn make you watch the way you hold. I like this.
• With that being said, with the removal of Fatal Rush, this makes certain characters have the edge over the rest of the cast. Some characters can just SDS their enemy for guaranteed launch and extended damage where majority can't. Majority of the cast only really can get this in the peculiar situation where you get CH on a crouching opponent, where Hayabusa can just do 4H+K and get a guaranteed combo. We need to find a way to universalise this for proper balance.
• The ground game looks improved, but I need to download and play properly to feel it out. Currently away from a PC to do this but when I'm back I'll give some more things to talk about.
• That Raijin is busted bro please don't make it take 2/3s of the health bar - I understand the 2nd part does 0 damage and the move is ridiculously hard to do, but 50% would suffice if we want a reward this large for pulling some KoF shit off in the game.
• THAT HITBOX CAPSULE ADDITION BRO. BRO.
• I think this version of the game needs more bounds on airborne opponents to make combo routes less bland. I will literally go through every single character's move list and propose one or more extra strings that should bound. Let's address the lack of hype factor at the root.

I have to see more for me to give more valid opinions, but I'd personally like to test these for Zack and see if they're giving enough nuance to his playstyle:

• Make 7P4 +2 on block.
• Bring back his DOA4 236PPP string, with 236P8 Funky Roll mixup. Don't know why they removed that.
• On 236PP(P) add ballerina stun to 3rd hit for more stun pressure.
• Replace his 236K with his DOA4 236K, but with Guard Break at +2 on block.
• Revert 4K back to it's DOA5 properties where it was -1 on block and +2 if went into Duck stance. If Honoka has it why can't I kek.
• Let's bring back DOA5V PP6PP to return as PP6PP+K for solid combo enders.
• Make 3PP(P) criminally unsafe again and add ground hit properties to the last hit like in DOA4. This enforces an FT on floored opponents if they refuse to tech.
• 4H+K to Fatal Sit Down Stun on normal hit, but make the move -9 on block.

Damn it’s good seeing shit like this about doa again. I hope this really changes some shit.

 

[EmeryReigns]

Your constant hate on DOA6 when it was still being supported by TN turned off a lot of people from the game. You are absolutely one of the people in the "community" who is to blame for the game's demise.

But yeah play DOA6++ for a little bit, make some clickbait clips for your YT channel and drop it the moment a new popular fighting game comes out.

and you’ll be watching daddy do his thing too

 

[Radiance]

it's hilarious to me that you think my mod sucks (without even playing it for a couple hours) but you simultaneously think you or I are such brain geniuses that we can do something that none of the big 3 have accomplished with their decades of experience in game design.

Are you saying we should like a body of work just because you put it out? That's not how it works, while it's cool you were able to make changes to the overall system and do your own thing, if you can't accept critique or are only thinking people are going to have positive opinions then perhaps you set yourself up for disappointment. or are you expecting people to sugarcoat it?? I never said "your mod sucks", clearly, you're projecting a bit. All I said is it's a DoA I wouldn't particularly play because there are changes I don't agree with but if there are people who enjoy it, then to each their own. Do you - but it's a public forum. Not everyone is going to agree with you.

 

[Full Cup Bounce]

and you’ll be watching daddy do his thing too

Whose daddy? You're the absolute worst role model for newbies to this game and you think you're the authority on everything. You don't help new players out, you actively discourage them from trying the game due to your incessant negativity, and you have a rotten attitude that (surprise) fits a cop. You rage and throw tantrums like a 3-year-old over someone getting complimented in a tournament you're not participating in because your butt buddy who doesn't play the game publicly anymore got his ego hurt. You ban/block people from your content because you're an ass-mad baby who can't take in what he dishes out and who thinks his tin badge makes him a mature adult.

I could go further but this is already borderline. You have done nothing good for DOA in the last 3 years, and if this is a pattern then I doubt you've done anything positive for the community in your entire streamer "career".

Back on topic:
This mod will only further isolate DOA6 from any potential new players. The PC playerbase is low as it is and further dividing things and making lobbies even less accessible to people trying out the game for the first time will only hurt its numbers.

And the irony of calling people who aren't interested in the mod "DOA6 haters" when the mod's goal is to remove what makes the game unique as DOA6.

 

[Rob]

Are you saying we should like a body of work just because you put it out? That's not how it works, while it's cool you were able to make changes to overall system and do your own thing, if you can't except critique or are only thinking people are going to have positive opinions than perhaps you set yourself up for disappointment. or are you expecting people to sugarcoat it?? I never said "your mod sucks", clearly, you're projecting a bit. All I said is it's a DoA I wouldn't particularly play because there are changes I don't agree with but if there are people who enjoy, than to each their own. Do you - but it's a public forum. Not everyone is going to agree with you.

Yep.

If revan was actually interested in entertaining feedback and making the mod for the community, then he would listen to the complaints.

But he won't because he does not know how to take criticism gracefully and rather be a snarky ass about it.

You can't reason with him. He is so caught up in his personal feelings and hatred for meter and this idea that, "well it hasn't ever worked in other games so it sucks" that he refuses to entertain that he is wrong.

DOA 6++ is literally just the "MeTeR IS bAD" mentality with no logic behind it.

Meterless SSA was already in DOA 6 and it was terrible. But of course, revan doesn't have to deal with that because he mainly plays Ayane who tracks on everything.

But it screws over linear characters like Kokoro. It makes playing those kind of characters unnecessarily frustrating.

Yet suggesting to buff tracking on these linear characters was met with scorn.

 

[Rob]

Back on topic:
This mod will only further isolate DOA6 from any potential new players. The PC playerbase is low as it is and further dividing things and making lobbies even less accessible to people trying out the game for the first time will only hurt its numbers.

And the irony of calling people who aren't interested in the mod "DOA6 haters" when the mod's goal is to remove what makes the game unique as DOA6.

And like that's arguably the biggest concern here because now you will have players who don't know if the other players have the mod or not. What if you don't want to play the game with the mod but there's only two other guys who are in a lobby with the mod enabled? Well, I guess fuck you then.

That's why people who are saying "if you don't like the mod, don't download it" are missing the point. It might come down to where you are forced to install it if you want to play with others just to get games.

I shouldn't be forced to download anyone's version of the game, especially one I may not like.

 

[Rev_an]

lmao i wish it would become so popular but i have no such expectation. the couple dozen people who are already interested, some of whom have been playing all afternoon, is enough of an audience that this was worth my time doing.


depending on who those two guys are they wouldn't even be on the game without the mod, and you wouldn't see us either way because we're in the private lobbies to avoid desync issues with the retail version.

i'm genuinely not being snarky here, you're just not making any sense dude.

 

[Rev_an]

• With that being said, with the removal of Fatal Rush, this makes certain characters have the edge over the rest of the cast. Some characters can just SDS their enemy for guaranteed launch and extended damage where majority can't. Majority of the cast only really can get this in the peculiar situation where you get CH on a crouching opponent, where Hayabusa can just do 4H+K and get a guaranteed combo. We need to find a way to universalise this for proper balance.
• That Raijin is busted bro please don't make it take 2/3s of the health bar - I understand the 2nd part does 0 damage and the move is ridiculously hard to do, but 50% would suffice if we want a reward this large for pulling some KoF shit off in the game.
• I think this version of the game needs more bounds on airborne opponents to make combo routes less bland. I will literally go through every single character's move list and propose one or more extra strings that should bound. Let's address the lack of hype factor at the root.

yeah raijin will get tuned down a little at least to only being crazy damage on counter/hicounter so it won't be the best whiff punish in the game.

fatals are certainly a work in progress, one of the official patches added NH fatal stuns to everybody but they're not created equal so we'll see how a couple weeks of play shakes out and what people do with them. 22 frames is right on the edge of reaction so that's pushing it especially for online play.

lame play like spamming fatal stun or side attacks hasn't been a problem that i've seen so far but that could just be who is playing and the balance being new to everybody

for juggle bounds i'm less sure, one of the things a lot of us didn't like about 6 is that bound close hit is usually max damage and max carry to the wall but if I can turn off close hits just for bound juggles then i'm more willing to add some extra ones where they fit I guess. I think knockdown bounds or ground bounce launchers would be more interesting to add, like i did with diego and... bass?

i'll get back to the more specific ideas in a couple weeks.

 

[DestructionBomb]

Got some footage starting with Raidou. Starting with some wild block checks, EWGF +5 is pretty wild lmao but the move being at negative in the first place is massively weird.

Also is there a bug thread?

 

[EmeryReigns]

B

Whose daddy? You're the absolute worst role model for newbies to this game and you think you're the authority on everything. You don't help new players out, you actively discourage them from trying the game due to your incessant negativity, and you have a rotten attitude that (surprise) fits a cop. You rage and throw tantrums like a 3-year-old over someone getting complimented in a tournament you're not participating in because your butt buddy who doesn't play the game publicly anymore got his ego hurt. You ban/block people from your content because you're an ass-mad baby who can't take in what he dishes out and who thinks his tin badge makes him a mature adult.

I could go further but this is already borderline. You have done nothing good for DOA in the last 3 years, and if this is a pattern then I doubt you've done anything positive for the community in your entire streamer "career".

Back on topic:
This mod will only further isolate DOA6 from any potential new players. The PC playerbase is low as it is and further dividing things and making lobbies even less accessible to people trying out the game for the first time will only hurt its numbers.

And the irony of calling people who aren't interested in the mod "DOA6 haters" when the mod's goal is to remove what makes the game unique as DOA6.

Bro who’s reading that? Not me lmaooo shut your punk ass up

 

[deathofaninja]

DOA6++ literally is a "I HaTe ThE mEtEr" circlejerk.

I respect both choices. I know more than "four people" that like the meter and since I believe in alternatives if people don't like the meter, they should play DOA6++. Not with "RobHimself" he doesn't want DOA6 in any form, so I still wonder why he is heckling a community driven project that doesn't concern him to the least. It's not going to make DOA7 come around any faster.

If I wanted to play a game that was like the old DOAs then I would... play the old DOAs?

This is the I really don't have anything important to add to the conversation response. That being said if that's the case why are you here battling this? Go play the old games. This is a fun community project and doesn't affect you in anyway.

But, I have to say, I don't like the idea of pushing any fan mod of the game as the "standard", this will only bring division into players, even more considering the PS4 playerbase that is quite significant in terms of overall doa 6 player count.

I like doa 6, and I know it isn't a fully realized game, but I'm also aware that I don't have the insight and knowledge necessary to say exactly what has to be done to make it more fun, I feel the shortcomings of doa 6 gameplay wise is the combo routes ending with bound into close hit, and I would like to go back to how max height juggles were in 5 or previous game, but I do like what 6 did to the stun game, reducing the requirements for max launch, removal of stagger escape and reducing the overall stun time (though i would preffer if the stun was reduced to 5's equivalent of "fastest", when it is currently on "fast") and of course I would like the removall of the butt pill of everyone.

The community is already divided as it can get, and there is nothing significant about the PS4 version of the game. It doesn't even run at 60fps to my knowledge. For me I have more luck finding a match on the XBOX and I'll play on any of the systems. Let me see the player counter to the PS4 version.

B

Bro who’s reading that? Not me lmaooo shut your punk ass up

Most of what he says has absolutely no facts behind it. He's just a mindless hater with a few alts. He asks why I unignored him. It's because he's continuing his personal assaults on people in the forum. But this was supposed to be a fun little project and this thread was designed to be a place where people could get help, not a bunch of peons with pitch forks because RobHimself has changed his story like 50 times and I've been reading his words since he joined... *cringe*

All he's really said is he doesn't like this project, he doesn't like the original DOA6, he doesn't like anyone that helped with the game, and he believes everyone hates it. So, with all that constituted; I'm not sure why he's here. There has always been a group of people that are ready to attack anyone that might be enjoying DOA6 to a degree and he's one of those people.

 

[Rikuto]

Also, SSA is too strong since its now a meterless non-linear free oki attempt. Imagine if that was in DOA5 lol

It is.

Yep.

If revan was actually interested in entertaining feedback and making the mod for the community, then he would listen to the complaints.

But he won't because he does not know how to take criticism gracefully and rather be a snarky ass about it.

You can't reason with him. He is so caught up in his personal feelings and hatred for meter and this idea that, "well it hasn't ever worked in other games so it sucks" that he refuses to entertain that he is wrong.

DOA 6++ is literally just the "MeTeR IS bAD" mentality with no logic behind it.

Meterless SSA was already in DOA 6 and it was terrible. But of course, revan doesn't have to deal with that because he mainly plays Ayane who tracks on everything.

But it screws over linear characters like Kokoro. It makes playing those kind of characters unnecessarily frustrating.

Yet suggesting to buff tracking on these linear characters was met with scorn.

Your feedback to him is that you like meter. His feedback to you is that he does not. Goes both ways, and he's not obligated to bend the knee in regards to that belief.

6++ plays more like classic DOA games before they decided to overcomplicate themselves with mechanics that are anti-fundamentals and objectively make players who are weaker in that area, stronger. It's a harsh sticking point that many players feel very strongly about, and that's not limited to the DOA community and its own IP.

 

[rjqnraos19]

Cool! Is cpu ai working fine now? (I'm not play online because I suck at fighting games)
I hope cpu can use actual DOA6 combos not doa5 combos...