6++ Gameplay Overhaul

[Radiance]

how many raijins do you think i've ever done in a row?

Let's not pretend DoA has difficult inputs. I guess for the people bad at the game perhaps.

Rest my case..

the raijin input requires you to be on neutral. \

It's called buffering. You can buffer the input during the recovery frames of moves, and to be fair, TN lowered the difficulty of Raijin. It's not even a full 360 like in DoA4, it's half circle now so don't need to buffer anything tbh.

 

[Rev_an]

no, its not buffering. it literally doesn't accept four diagonals in a row. there's an opcode that enforces stick neutral state between inputs and the raijin uses it.

you don't even have to be a hexadecimal-reading hackerman to know that, wazaaa posted about it on this very forum. (credit to gulti for enlightening us)

 

[Rob]

^ well to be fair to revan, he might be using a hitbox/mixbox/keyboard controller and the 2nd/3rd parts of the Raijin require some neutral inputs.

Sotherius has had an extremely difficult time and he's using a hitbox controller. But it's not his fault, per se.

 

[Rob]

Regardless of its difficulty, I think we can all agree having a throw do 301 damage on HiC is pretty dumb lol.

Enjoy it before it gets inevitably patched out.

 

[Rev_an]

i'm on pad ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Rob]

well then git gud scrub!

Seriously, it still doesn't make sense Raijin does as little damage as it does in the retail version. 150 dmg is a better idea or more.

 

[XxNoriakixX]

Kasumi 44P should keep its tracking imo. I mean, the animation was made to emphasise the fact that it is a slow tracking move.

The removed BT 2p re-float properties also feels strange since this was not part of why people hated Kazoomy. I could understand a nerf to 6PK on block, especially since the other ninja won't push you a half-screen away with their 6PK, but the bt 2P re-float could stay for some generic combo routes *downplay like a pro

Also also, Christie doesn't need her old bokuhu. That's why Helena exists. Bok22 is still more evasive but Christie has it all now: evasiveness, rushdown, range, speed, and mixups, playing with intended character archetypes and rendering Helena almost useless with her unique flaws. Why deal with low range and an 11f jab when Christie is Helena+Kasumi+Kokoro in 1 character with the only flaw being some weaker throws? There's a reason why some of the top players call her a crackhead and the best non-ninja character together with Tina

Leifang 9P is punishable on hit too, -14 or -15. Got a ch combo after having been hit by it... add the slightest delay to the followup and you basically 50/50 yourself, with the opponent getting more dmg and more favourable situations off a Lei 9P than you will get. It shouldn't be that negative on hit, punishing Leifang players for playing the character.

And Raijin should do slightly more dmg than Izunas since it is harder to do. The instakill is nice but just slightly op :^)

Thanks for coming to my Ted talk

 

[Subans]

Hi!
First of all, thanks to all who is trying to revive DOA6

As a Helena main, I got a little dissapointed when I saw that she only got her 33_p back... (even it is harder to do the input than in DOA5)
I would like to suggest (if it's possible) to add new old moves

DOA4 pp2kp
DOA4 pp2kk
DOA4 BH6p4pk (k being a relaunch)

 

[Rev_an]

Kasumi 44P should keep its tracking imo. I mean, the animation was made to emphasise the fact that it is a slow tracking move.

The removed BT 2p re-float properties also feels strange since this was not part of why people hated Kazoomy. I could understand a nerf to 6PK on block, especially since the other ninja won't push you a half-screen away with their 6PK, but the bt 2P re-float could stay for some generic combo routes *downplay like a pro

Also also, Christie doesn't need her old bokuhu. That's why Helena exists. Bok22 is still more evasive but Christie has it all now: evasiveness, rushdown, range, speed, and mixups, playing with intended character archetypes and rendering Helena almost useless with her unique flaws. Why deal with low range and an 11f jab when Christie is Helena+Kasumi+Kokoro in 1 character with the only flaw being some weaker throws? There's a reason why some of the top players call her a crackhead and the best non-ninja character together with Tina

Leifang 9P is punishable on hit too, -14 or -15. Got a ch combo after having been hit by it... add the slightest delay to the followup and you basically 50/50 yourself, with the opponent getting more dmg and more favourable situations off a Lei 9P than you will get. It shouldn't be that negative on hit, punishing Leifang players for playing the character.

And Raijin should do slightly more dmg than Izunas since it is harder to do. The instakill is nice but just slightly op :^)

Thanks for coming to my Ted talk

funny thing about 44p is that a bunch of people who have been around a long time didn't even know it had it until i took it out. I take your point on the animation, i'll revisit it when some more of the systems stuff is more finalized, don't need to put tracking back on it if we end up removing tracking and sidestep in favor of a more doa 3 system for example.

Bt 2p is, at its core, a vendetta against low refloats. i'd rather buff something else, but kasumi is still very good. the 7k p nerf is protecting us from a 12 frame normal hit option select so...

christie is a lot. she just won the "most cut content" award and i'd rather have DF get a bunch of attention (like it has) and blow up in my face (not yet at least) than make a more cautious initial release. If it helps, some people are telling me jak is worse for system reasons and i'm looking to do a "no fixes just balance adjustments" update sometime next year TBD depending on the other problems that crop up.

interesting about leifang. usually minus on normal is to make strings not be natural combos. ayane has a few of those too so that situation of a move being minus on normal is on my radar, and it IS annoying but for the moment i think e.g. guaranteed 4pk would be worse for everybody else than the occasional surprise NH 4p is for me.

raijin i'm going to try to make a separate damage table for normal and counter/high counter to give myself some more freedom on those values but yeah it should be 1 more than the bass powerbomb or something idk precisely and being off by 15 damage probably doesn't matter when you're over 180.

thanks for the feedback

Hi!
First of all, thanks to all who is trying to revive DOA6

As a Helena main, I got a little dissapointed when I saw that she only got her 33_p back... (even it is harder to do the input than in DOA5)
I would like to suggest (if it's possible) to add new old moves

DOA4 pp2kp
DOA4 pp2kk
DOA4 BH6p4pk (k being a relaunch)

thanks! i'm beside myself that more than ten people are playing.

yeah i'm disappointed too, some characters (christie lol) had way way more stuff to bring back than others, which is mostly why the changes are distributed how they are other than diego). i'll put these on the investigation list, generally strings can be added but i don't want to promise an animation exists and find out it doesn't.

 

[raididiot]

I was originally going to write 2-3 paragraphs of excuses for this suggestion, but I'll skip it. Any plans to restore Phase 4's 33K from DoA 5?

also buff raidou tenho-gorai-sho pls

 

[Rev_an]

I was originally going to write 2-3 paragraphs of excuses for this suggestion, but I'll skip it. Any plans to restore Phase 4's 33K from DoA 5?

also buff raidou tenho-gorai-sho pls

what input you want it on? new 33k gonna stay available, but i blew all the time i budgeted for her pre-release on some stuff that didn't work out yet.

i wanted 3way teleports on all moves but coding multi-stack inputs like that so you can choose tenfu, chifu, or nagikaze is hard. like the hayate 66p6 problem people have but worse.

expect changes to make that bt 8k teleport do something too but i gotta figure out what and how without giving her too much.

maybe

 

[Rev_an]

Twitch

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clips.twitch.tv

ok i got my clip, i'll nerf it now

 

[GarryJaune]

True, it's really not a difficult move; if you can do an izuna drop, you can do a raijin. Let's not pretend DoA has difficult inputs. I guess for the people bad at the game perhaps.

can't agree more
DOA is a newcomer friendly enough FTG,devs should have known that

please,no more simplification,any fighting game trying play up to newcomers simplifies its mechanics,all dead,no exception

 

[GarryJaune]

Twitch

Twitch is the world's leading video platform and community for gamers.

clips.twitch.tv

ok i got my clip, i'll nerf it now

hey,any new ideas about nerfing SSA?

 

[Rev_an]

hey,any new ideas about nerfing SSA?

you want it nerfed more? i mean i could. we've been talking about going a more VF route with it since the DOA 3.1 way is kinda prevented by the engine but i don't have enough data yet.

I think people need to learn the force-tech situation before we can really evaluate sidestep. there are new tools to keep your turn going after some juggles and some wall hits. SS(A) is in tension with that and one of the functions is as a relief valve on all that pressure. Remember it's doa 5 wall vulnerability and bound into 1-hit OS exists on about half the characters (thankfully not most of the 9 framers)

i got raijined like i wanted today, i'd also like to see somebody playing as lame as possible with the SSA situation as it is.

for example kokoro players have complained about her tracking options in the past few years but she seems to be doing fine in this first pass.

specifically is it the knockdown or is it the losing your turn?

 

[raididiot]

what input you want it on? new 33k gonna stay available, but i blew all the time i budgeted for her pre-release on some stuff that didn't work out yet.

i wanted 3way teleports on all moves but coding multi-stack inputs like that so you can choose tenfu, chifu, or nagikaze is hard. like the hayate 66p6 problem people have but worse.

expect changes to make that bt 8k teleport do something too but i gotta figure out what and how without giving her too much.

maybe

As for an input? 33K would be ideal, but 236K should work if it isn't taken already.

 

[ralegar]

yo revan, i was playing in a lobby earlier but couldn't hear you. Tre4life and I will be playing more tomorrow, heres my discord, I wanna chat a bit for sure pick your brain a abit on the game and the mod.

ralegar#9999

 

[GarryJaune]

you want it nerfed more? i mean i could. we've been talking about going a more VF route with it since the DOA 3.1 way is kinda prevented by the engine but i don't have enough data yet.

I think people need to learn the force-tech situation before we can really evaluate sidestep. there are new tools to keep your turn going after some juggles and some wall hits. SS(A) is in tension with that and one of the functions is as a relief valve on all that pressure. Remember it's doa 5 wall vulnerability and bound into 1-hit OS exists on about half the characters (thankfully not most of the 9 framers)

i got raijined like i wanted today, i'd also like to see somebody playing as lame as possible with the SSA situation as it is.

for example kokoro players have complained about her tracking options in the past few years but she seems to be doing fine in this first pass.

specifically is it the knockdown or is it the losing your turn?

maybe damage lower to 15?
make it beaten by most straight moves in strings thus people won't mash it anymore(they have to learn correct SSA just like DOA5,I think its fair enough)
PS：I'm OK with the hard knockdown change,as well as wall splat,it's fair

 

[Rev_an]

maybe damage lower to 15?
make it beaten by most straight moves in strings thus people won't mash it anymore(they have to learn correct SSA just like DOA5,I think its fair enough)
PS：I'm OK with the hard knockdown change,as well as wall splat,it's fair

yeah the change to 20 was to reward less for spam and to let stronger linear stuff beat it out if it was mis-timed. I was also considering 19 to enhance the latter effect but i'd have to survey string damage in a way i haven't done before. sounds like a job for spreadsheets.

certainly wouldn't go lower than 15.

 

[Rob]

One thing that came to mind that I didn't see it in the notes, but the damage scaling remains intact from retail, correct?

With changing up the combo routes and damages, that's gotta create some wild disparities in the cast on who is dishing out more damage.