Advice on improving

mash2780

New Member
OK so I’ve been playing DOA5LR for 50 days after getting hooked a couple of weeks in. I have zero previous experience with the series. Christie is my main and I’ve made it to D+ online but I seem to have plateaued and I’m not exactly sure what my weaknesses are. Whenever I get close to achieving a C- a couple of seemingly possessed E and F players come out of nowhere and send me back to D. Very frustrating.

Other character I like and have used are Helena and Lisa but on a much lower level than Christie.

I read somewhere on this forum that Hitomi and Kokoro are simple characters that can help with strengthening fundamentals. Would picking up these two characters improve my overall skill? Any advice on taking it to the next level is appreciated.
 

Awesmic

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
I'm still learning the game, but I'll help with what I've learned anyway.

Since this is your first time playing a DOA game, and more than likely you'll want to understand some terminology when reading strats, you'll want to know some of this stuff:


Directions on the D-pad / control stick corresponds to these numbers (NOTE: 5 is not a direction):
---------------------------------------------------------------
:7: :8: :9:
:4: :5: :6:
:1: :2: :3:
---------------------------------------------------------------
7 8 9
4 5 6
1 2 3
-----------------------------------------------------------------


Face buttons correspond to these letters:

:P: = P

:K: = K

:h: = H

:H+P: = T


The DOA series revolves around a basic triangle system, or Rock-Paper-Scissors (RPS) system for 3D fighters:

Strikes beat throws.

Holds beat strikes.

Throws beat holds.

However, if you want to improve your skills even more, none of this will matter if you don't apply what you learn, much less fully understand. This is where knowing the stun system and applying what you know based on what you learned matching frame data to your opponent's, giving you a significant edge over those particularly not in the know.

So you're probably thinking, "I already know I can use a hold out of a stun". Yes, it's possible in most situations. But there are some others where you can't, and this is where things get interesting for guaranteed setups. These stuns are called unholdable stuns, or unholdables for short.

Unholdable stuns are types of stuns that the opponent cannot cancel with a hold until the stun animation is completely finished. These stuns must be stagger escaped by toggling the D-pad in order to get out of the stun quickly. The types of unholdable stuns of note are as follows:

1) Faint stun: Opponent faints backwards to the ground. This cannot be stagger escaped. If you're caught in this one, there's nothing you can do.

2) Limbo stun: Opponent bends backwards as if he/she is doing the limbo before falling to the ground. This cannot be stagger escaped. If you're caught in this one, there's nothing you can do.

3) Sit-down stun: Usually done with low attacks, this stun caused the opponent to fall sideways on their butt, unable to take action until they recoil. Unlike the former two, this unholdable stun can be stagger escaped.

One last thing you'll see often mentioned in this primer is the term "stun threshold". During a match, stun threshold is indicated on screen when the caption "Critical Stun!" turns from white to red. When you see this on screen while stunning your opponent, you have these options at your disposal:

1) You can gamble with using a launcher for the highest possible launch height for that move, following with a juggle of your choosing.

2) You can try to land a Critical Burst. If this move connects, the opponent is immobilized for 1.5 seconds, allowing you enough time to either:

A) Use a standard launching move which will result in an automatic Hi-Counter launch, which is the highest possible launch height outside of a Power Launcher.

B) A guaranteed Power Blow followup if you are at less than 50% health (indicated when your health bar is flashing red),

C) A guaranteed Power Launcher which launches the opponent very high to optimize juggles on even the heaviest weight classes, or...

Alternatively, you can forget using the Critical Burst altogether, and instead wait for the opponent to use a hold during stun and use a throw reset, or a throw that won't knock the opponent down.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you want to know how to read frame data, this thread may prove useful.

http://www.freestepdodge.com/threads/frame-data-explained.5412/


Also, the character you're using now is more than enough to help you understand the fundamentals of the game. If you want to learn more about her, you can always go here to get a better understanding of her current gameplay to date:

http://www.freestepdodge.com/threads/update-christie-as-of-doa5lr-version-1-08.5267/

EDIT: Fixed a minor misconception about Critical Burst followups.
 
Last edited:

Giannola

Well-Known Member
^the post above me is incredibly detailed and well thought out... But here's my more basic thoughts.

OK so I’ve been playing DOA5LR for 50 days after getting hooked a couple of weeks in. I have zero previous experience with the series. Christie is my main and I’ve made it to D+ online but I seem to have plateaued and I’m not exactly sure what my weaknesses are. Whenever I get close to achieving a C- a couple of seemingly possessed E and F players come out of nowhere and send me back to D. Very frustrating.

Other character I like and have used are Helena and Lisa but on a much lower level than Christie.

I read somewhere on this forum that Hitomi and Kokoro are simple characters that can help with strengthening fundamentals. Would picking up these two characters improve my overall skill? Any advice on taking it to the next level is appreciated.

I'm still learning as well, although I can definitely remember my first 50 or so days, and times when I feel like I hit a wall. One thing I'd say is don't get too discouraged over rank. You'll rank up in time, yes, but it's not so important in the context of learning and improving. Something that may help is if you have a training buddy you can play with. For me its the best practice as I feel less pressured when I'm playing with an online buddy rather than a random. Another trick I used when I feel like I hit that "c-" wall was I started saving a lot of replays in order to put my finger on exactly what my weaknesses were and what I can do differently, so that may help you as well.

As for characters, I don't play any that you mentioned, however, I did stick with my character through the rough times and feel like eventually got to be decent with her. So it's up to you, if you'd like to try different characters, but I believe if you like Christie and are comfortable using her, you will get to where you want to be with her. Might be helpful to ask in that character specific forum for that though.

Hope this helped in the slightest. If not the dude above me gave amazing detailed tips.
 

tokiopewpew

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
One advice I'd like to give is no to focus too much on reaching / beating specific ranks. It can result in some kind of mental weakness because desperatly trying to win becomes the most important thing for you, rather than the more basic desire to simply become better. Thereby, not achieving the former - which will happen quite often as newcomer - will only cause frustration, as you already wrote.

Instead, you will have a lot more relaxing time in doa if you just let things come up to you with time. The more you play, the more experience you will get, making it easier for you to deal with certain moves or characters. With that, the cherry on the cake, which is winning matches, will come from it's own. One could argue now that all fighting games are about winning, that isn't wrong. However, even if you lose, you can still have all the fun while playing as long as you have an idea of why you lost and what you could try to avoid it next time. That means you won't suffer a huge setback from losses.

And having a specific rank doesn't mean anything for the majority of the community. There are players with LR ranks around who can beat you up easily, as well as you can find B's and above who do not even seem to know that this game offers a guard button. So no worries, smart people won't judge you based on that.

I think giving more specific advices for improvement would require to see you playing first because it is difficult to get an idea of your skill level and character usage without something visual.
 

mash2780

New Member
Thanks for the great replies and info. I've already started familiarizing myself with many of these concepts and even taking notes. I'm probably putting more effort into this game than I put in most of my college classes back in the day.

I guess I have to apply it more consistently.

One thing I just learned is that I haven't been stagger escaping at all.

I also have a couple of questions:

1. Is there a difference between a crumple stun and a faint stun or just a different animation?

2. What's a B&B setup? (I don't even know what the Bs stand for)
 

tokiopewpew

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
1. Is there a difference between a crumple stun and a faint stun or just a different animation?

http://www.freestepdodge.com/thread...ind-of-stun-can-not-be-held.5927/#post-276441

2. What's a B&B setup? (I don't even know what the Bs stand for)

From what I know, B&B stands for Bread and Butter and refers to setups or combos you can perform even with closed eyes, regardless of where (environment) and which character (weightclass) you fight against.

Even though this one is missing there, you might want to check out the wiki for more information on common terminology:

http://www.freestepdodge.com/wiki/dead-or-alive-terminology/
 

Lulu

Well-Known Member
Learning as many character's as possible will help since this will give you insight to all kinds of matchups.

Also try playing someone offline.
 

Xernuht

Well-Known Member
Learning as many character's as possible will help since this will give you insight to all kinds of matchups.

This isn't always true. Some people can improve through direct focus on a single character, some do so by exploring the whole roster.

The important thing is to experiment. Try new characters, devote time to specific ones, figure out what works for you. If you find yourself hitting the wall again, consider taking a break and letting yourself cool off before coming back and trying again. You may find inspiration with a clearer mind.

Also try playing someone offline.

THIS. This in spades. When you just fight the person beside you, and not the terrible netcode that messes with the mechanical aspects, you will probably develop a stronger fundamental game, rather than resorting to only the cheap tricks that online play can create in your style. I'm a work in progress myself, but I feel much better losing offline than winning online.
 

mash2780

New Member
Wow excellent perspectives from everyone. Thanks.

I took a day off from playing, I think I was too oversaturated from playing many hours on a daily basis. It's self defeating like going to the gym without taking rest days to recuperate.

Nobody I know is into DOA so I won't be able to play against someone offline. I'll have to stick to online lobbies for now.
 

PoorlyTimedJump

New Member
I've been trying to improve too. I play Hitomi and I regularly get stomped online. It's super demoralizing. Minutes before I decided to reply to this I lost to someone spamming low-kicks. I've played through the tutorial, completed command training for every character (still working on combo challenges), I practice in free training mode and I even started looking into frame data (a first for me), but sitting in that lobby getting my ass kicked it didn't even occur to me to throw out a low hold.

I say "spamming", but not to put this person down, they spammed because they could, because I suck so bad they could get away with it. It's a completely viable way to win and it destroyed whatever confidence I had in my game.

I hope your break helped, I think I'll take a short one myself.
 

Lulu

Well-Known Member
Nobody I know is into DOA so I won't be able to play against someone offline. I'll have to stick to online lobbies for now.

I feel your pain !!!! Its sucks when its game you genuinely like and your douchebag friends won't even give it chance.

Uhm..... I'm sure your friends aren't actually douchebags so lets pretend I never said that. ;)
 

Giannola

Well-Known Member
I've been trying to improve too. I play Hitomi and I regularly get stomped online. It's super demoralizing. Minutes before I decided to reply to this I lost to someone spamming low-kicks. I've played through the tutorial, completed command training for every character (still working on combo challenges), I practice in free training mode and I even started looking into frame data (a first for me), but sitting in that lobby getting my ass kicked it didn't even occur to me to throw out a low hold.


I say "spamming", but not to put this person down, they spammed because they could, because I suck so bad they could get away with it. It's a completely viable way to win and it destroyed whatever confidence I had in my game.

I hope your break helped, I think I'll take a short one myself.

Dont feel too demoralized, everyone takes some bad losses on the way to becoming a better player, even if some don't admit it.

As for lows, yeah you already know you can hold them on reaction. Another thing about lows is most are negative on block, so just blocking low, down+h, can be enough to make them think twice about going low.

I mentioned saving replays to mash, but I think it can help you too, it's really good to familiarize yourself with certain patterns a player has, especially when they may go low, or that kind of thing. Saving replays Imo can really help you in your ability to read your opponent, so next time you'll see the lows coming more easily.
 
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