Hallo everybody! This is my first post in this forum and i wanna open a discussion about Bayman matchups. I start with Kokoro: I play a lot with a friend who plays Kokoro and she has a lot of great spacing tools. And her best spacing move is a guard break. What should i do to come close to her. Should I just wait for her to attack(which is maybe bad because she can open up with a guard break which is about +4 on block) or should I try to open up with maybe 214p or 9p(which is a dangerous too because she can whiff punish me easily)? So what should I do? Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
Bayman matchups
- Thread starter Marcio
- Start date
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
Bayman matchups can be divided into two categories.
Those he can open with 214P on, and those he can't.
Typically, anyone with a 66P that has respectable distance, he can't. At least not if they are playing smart. This also includes deathfist characters like Hayate/Hitomi.
Kokoro also falls into that category, though her reach is not quite as good as someone like Hayate.
When he can use 214P he can either hold his own, or flatout win the spacing game offensively. When he cannot, he has to either rush down from the very start of the round of play defensively until a mistake is made. This changes the fight dynamic quite drastically and is probably where a lot of your trouble is coming from.
Remember that if Kokoro is playing aggressive, you can always rely on your tank wheel to break her flow.
Those he can open with 214P on, and those he can't.
Typically, anyone with a 66P that has respectable distance, he can't. At least not if they are playing smart. This also includes deathfist characters like Hayate/Hitomi.
Kokoro also falls into that category, though her reach is not quite as good as someone like Hayate.
When he can use 214P he can either hold his own, or flatout win the spacing game offensively. When he cannot, he has to either rush down from the very start of the round of play defensively until a mistake is made. This changes the fight dynamic quite drastically and is probably where a lot of your trouble is coming from.
Remember that if Kokoro is playing aggressive, you can always rely on your tank wheel to break her flow.
Souichiro
Member
I used to have trouble against Hitomi's sudden punch and kick alot ubtil i discovered the sweetnes of mid parry. I am not sure which attack of Kokoro you are refering to since i havent battled many of them but if its a single mid move then try to parry it or sidestep it. My guess is that if its a single straight punch then it probably doesnt track. Also, if you find yourself unable to parry it then try to remember what your friend usually does right after guard breaking you and you should be able to hold accordingly. That will keep him thinking should i or shouldnt i? But if you can succed using your parries you are headed to enlightenment
You just described my Kasumi trouble
Thx guys for the feedback!
The move i was refering to is Kokoros 214p which is actually not +4 on block as i mentioned but it is 0 on block what basically means that it's still Kokoro's turn. Especially since 214p has a great pushback and after I block it I am back in a mid range situations where Kokoro shines.
I know this move is linear as Kokoro in general is pretty linear and i do my best to SS or tank roll to punish her linearity(?!) or hold her mid punches but if I do one mistake i eat a 100 dmg sit down stun combo.
I probably should be very aggressive from the start of the round like you(Rikuto) mentioned and when i get pushed back I should anticipate what he will do like you(Souichiro) mentioned.
My friend likes to do a quick mid like 66p+k after 214p. I should take advantage of that but as I said if I do one mistake i get a LOT of damage in my face. I think it's a tough matchup for Bayman.
I used to have trouble against Hitomi's sudden punch and kick alot ubtil i discovered the sweetnes of mid parry. I am not sure which attack of Kokoro you are refering to since i havent battled many of them but if its a single mid move then try to parry it or sidestep it. My guess is that if its a single straight punch then it probably doesnt track. Also, if you find yourself unable to parry it then try to remember what your friend usually does right after guard breaking you and you should be able to hold accordingly. That will keep him thinking should i or shouldnt i? But if you can succed using your parries you are headed to enlightenment
You just described my Kasumi trouble
Did you make that? Because that is fuck awesome. Bohdisattvaman's not snapping their spine: he's exposing their chakras to enlightenment. Or at least some light, anyway.
In an Orwellian spirit:slow characters good, fast characters bad. Getting rushed down by Kasumi sucks nuts for Bayman/Tina/Bass in general, but Bayman is always better off defensively than either of those two. You always have a good option to shut down most of what they're doing:
Offensively he can get in crushing highs with hold 3p, 2f+k, 4p+k, 214p, occasionally 66k, and 33f+p. Lows are a little tougher as his only low crush (I think?) is 9p and it's quite slow, but if you see it coming the complete 9pp guarantees a ground throw (and nothing else as far as I can tell) for 70 to 80 damage. You want to work to a hard knockdown (e.g. p+k) and try to get a p+k force tech. Once you're at +20 the opponent's speed doesn't matter for shit and Uncle Bayman's Sambo Twister Party goes into full effect. Mix liberally equal parts 3p, 236k, 214f+p, sidestep k, and 41236f+p to keep them guessing. With the exception of the throw, these should beat everything they would attempt from the force tech. If sidestep k hits you take another 80 damage and force tech again. 3p should be safe and open stun combos. You can also use sidestep p or hold 3p but they are unsafe on block. Also, 8p has good range, the followup launches and is a natural combo on a normal hit, and you can cancel from it into an OH. While theoretically unsafe it's a surprisingly good poke if you've got room.. Don't forget if they break a multipart OH you're at +3 so keep the pressure on even afterwards.
Defensively, get out of mid pressure with the tank roll or the mid parry. Obviously predictable attacks can be answered with advanced holds to encourage more thoughtful play from the opponent. If you're offline, there's always throw punishment, though I find online this is unreliable at best. Nonetheless, Bayman also has good options to punish with his OHs from advantage, so blocking till they do something dumb and throwing is always viable for him
KidArk
Active Member
Okay I should've been practicing my Bayman but instead I spent the better half of my day reading a few people on these forums argue about "Tier lists" my main complaint was their god like placement of Jan Lee and their disregard for the grapplers. I mean since this is the Bayman forum I'll stick to him but against Jan lee I've never even noticed him to have a 10 frame jab and an 11 frame mid as I've always been able to rush him out of the gate and tank roll is the answer to his lame dragon gunner . Even simply crouching into an air juggle allows for me to avoid most of his combos and the dragon gunner and after crouching through the strings for a while i start predicting his mid hit with the beautiful mid parry and by then .. well the fight is over, tank wheel into S.T.F is just too much damage for jan to take with 2 ~ 3 failed dragon gunners.
AGAIN , this is only my opinion and I'd hate to upset any Jan players reading this but I feel he's pretty balanced as his reliance on low OH and High hits esp the noob friendly unblockable leaves him very unsafe to crouch blocking and those use to the sidestep timing.
AGAIN , this is only my opinion and I'd hate to upset any Jan players reading this but I feel he's pretty balanced as his reliance on low OH and High hits esp the noob friendly unblockable leaves him very unsafe to crouch blocking and those use to the sidestep timing.
snakeeyez_VIE
New Member
hello,
Any advice against Tina and Mila?
Any advice against Tina and Mila?
My personal experience against Mila is knowing if they abuse her shoot or not. If they do, you have two options. Utilize your crushes,
, , and to nullify the tackle. Or, if you're feeling confident, hit your throw button. It's a 6 frame grab that punishes her offensive hold.Tina on the other hand can be played many different ways. What moves were you having trouble with?
snakeeyez_VIE
New Member
thx for the info against mila.
@ Tina : I cant escape throws.
@ Tina : I cant escape throws.
Are you being baited into throws, or are you holding block while they cancel their string into a throw? If it's the first, then you'll need to stop being hold counter happy and start throwing instead to put them into a stun. If the 2nd, then when things seem fishy, drop a and get a good reset.
instead to put them into a stun. If the 2nd, then when things seem fishy, drop a and get a good reset.snakeeyez_VIE
New Member
thx again.
snakeeyez_VIE
New Member
hmmm... i play more a defensive style. In that case i would try to counter with universal hold .
.
While that is useful, it still is guess work. Unless of course I start using it in mid strings. Guess I'm going to need to step up my reaction time.hmmm... i play more a defensive style. In that case i would try to counter with universal hold
i seriously need some anti-Lisa tricks this woman is running me into the ground constantly
KidArk
Active Member
Learn her strings , from what i've observed Lisa is mid kick happy, she loves that sit down get ready for it with Mid Kick hold. I hate her running OH I more often than naught challenge her in the air with 9P as long as you know the difference between the drop kick and frog splash with the OH you can force tech her each time she tries and that capoiera low break dance 9P again try sidestepping once you see her guard-break strings don't tank wheel it it's not worth it to throw out UNLESS you know when to do it. I'm actually doing homework right now but i wanted you to at least get something as soon as possible and the FSD email popped up on my cell I can reply if you do it would be within the hour.
whoops to late i got put on that "not worth my time" list it seems -_- oh well another one will show up i suppose
KidArk
Active Member
Not worth my time list? What do you mean? You may not be worth the time of some but I see no problem trying to help you out , heck im starting to hate Lisa and Hitomi as of late since people have been flocking to those characters lately for reasons unbeknownst to me.
its when you get beat so often by a person they don't believe you stand a chance so they stop accepting the fight.cant blame them i guess but it is disheartening