DOA Tournament Tier List

[Radiance]

Because she's fast and has good damage output but her slow neutral, limitations, unsafety, and lack of tools drag her down to being below average

@Radiance I'm just going by what me and other players seen from him XD he's ok but mot the best, same with Naotora, I like her and I feel she's strong but realistically she isn't and I would looka bit foolish placing her any higher than what she truly is

So you're judging a tier list off what you see and not what the character can or can not do? Who are these Eliot players that you and "others" see? You make a tierlist based up facts and matchup's, not what you see. You have Kasumi higher than Phase 4 so I have to question this tier list lol.

 

[Bacaww]

Because she's fast and has good damage output but her slow neutral, limitations, unsafety, and lack of tools drag her down to being below average

@Radiance I'm just going by what me and other players seen from him XD he's ok but mot the best, same with Naotora, I like her and I feel she's strong but realistically she isn't and I would looka bit foolish placing her any higher than what she truly is

I dont necessarily think so, her mix-ups and damage are both SS-tier which makes up for her negative points. She for sure is not below average, I would put her in the A-tier atleast just because of the two previous mentioned factor which makes her extremely dangerous

 

[KasumiLover]

So you're judging a tier list off what you see and not what the character can or can not do? Who are these Eliot players that you and "others" see? You make a tierlist based up facts and matchup's, not what you see. You have Kasumi higher than Phase 4 so I have to question this tier list lol.

I know what Eliot can do xD His linearity and somewhat slow speed as well as lack of good MUs overall drag him down, I mean I could at highest place him as a C but he would be the lowest in the below average class. And Kasumi is really high because she has speed, evasion, good throws, defensive holds and a expert hold CQC, and good enough tools to help her do well, her lack of safety and damage however drag her down from being in S tier

I dont necessarily think so, her mix-ups and damage are both SS-tier which makes up for her negative points. She for sure is not below average, I would put her in the A-tier atleast just because of the two previous mentioned factor which makes her extremely dangerous

Her mix ups aren't all that tbh XD the scariest mix up she can do is throw out a mid punch when she does her 5K or 6K kick strings, her other mix ups are either predictable or too slow to be of use. Her damage is good but not great either, its average and you'll have to work hard on high level play to get even that

...Wait you meant Phase??? XD Yeah, the scariest her mix ups are when she starts to teleport since you have less than a few moments to react or else she can keep going or bait a reaction and throw you. But she's not all that great. If she had Kasumi's mix ups and more safety and a faster neutral she would be higher but as long as she's fighting a good defensive player or a turtle, there's not much she can do and she has a tough time opening up defensive players. If speed was much a factor to a tier list than Pai would be S tier since she's possibly the fastest in the game but her damage is poor and she has to work for it. Bass is also very powerful and has scary HC throw damage but his speed drags him down since the game favors speed. Gen fu has speed in close range and great power as well as defensive parries I believe and good pressure which is why he's so high but his nerfs made him less braindead. Leifang has decent Close range speed and sabaki, parries, defensive holds and expert holds for all hit levels which makes hee great too but her lack of speed from a distance to help her move in hinders that a bit. Christie is fast, has pressure and power and really good evasion but her meh hold and throw damage hinder her in that regard and i don't believe she has any scary lows either nor many good defensive options

 

[Bacaww]

I know what Eliot can do xD His linearity and somewhat slow speed as well as lack of good MUs overall drag him down, I mean I could at highest place him as a C but he would be the lowest in the below average class. And Kasumi is really high because she has speed, evasion, good throws, defensive holds and a expert hold CQC, and good enough tools to help her do well, her lack of safety and damage however drag her down from being in S tier

Her mix ups aren't all that tbh XD the scariest mix up she can do is throw out a mid punch when she does her 5K or 6K kick strings, her other mix ups are either predictable or too slow to be of use. Her damage is good but not great either, its average and you'll have to work hard on high level play to get even that

...Wait you meant Phase??? XD Yeah, the scariest her mix ups are when she starts to teleport since you have less than a few moments to react or else she can keep going or bait a reaction and throw you. But she's not all that great. If she had Kasumi's mix ups and more safety and a faster neutral she would be higher but as long as she's fighting a good defensive player or a turtle, there's not much she can do and she has a tough time opening up defensive players. If speed was much a factor to a tier list than Pai would be S tier since she's possibly the fastest in the game but her damage is poor and she has to work for it. Bass is also very powerful and has scary HC throw damage but his speed drags him down since the game favors speed. Gen fu has speed in close range and great power as well as defensive parries I believe and good pressure which is why he's so high but his nerfs made him less braindead. Leifang has decent Close range speed and sabaki, parries, defensive holds and expert holds for all hit levels which makes hee great too but her lack of speed from a distance to help her move in hinders that a bit. Christie is fast, has pressure and power and really good evasion but her meh hold and throw damage hinder her in that regard and i don't believe she has any scary lows either nor many good defensive options

"The scariest mix up she can do is throw out a mid punch when she does her 5K or 6K kick strings" I cant take this list seriously anymore after you said that lol

 

[KasumiLover]

"The scariest mix up she can do is throw out a mid punch when she does her 5K or 6K kick strings" I cant take this list seriously anymore after you said that lol

Well its true, Naotora isn't good, she has too many mid kicks to make her a threat and her 5K high kicks don't help either. Her mid punches act as a way to help her out since when a player is mashing 6K or 5K most players don't expect you to free cancel and throw out a mid punch. I personally feel saying Phase 4 or Eliot is A or S tier is way more outlandish since they both also have major hindrances that drag them down. If Naotora had more mid punches, more moves overall, a sabaki or evasive type property for her 2P+K and more speed and safety overall she could easily be a high B tier. Same with eliot, if he had speed buffs and more mix ups he would be a mid to upper B tier. Phase would be a low A tier if she had more mix ups since she still has her hindrances

 

[Bacaww]

Well its true, Naotora isn't good, she has too many mid kicks to make her a threat and her 5K high kicks don't help either. Her mid punches act as a way to help her out since when a player is mashing 6K or 5K most players don't expect you to free cancel and throw out a mid punch. I personally feel saying Phase 4 or Eliot is A or S tier is way more outlandish since they both also have major hindrances that drag them down. If Naotora had more mid punches, more moves overall, a sabaki or evasive type property for her 2P+K and more speed and safety overall she could easily be a high B tier. Same with eliot, if he had speed buffs and more mix ups he would be a mid to upper B tier. Phase would be a low A tier if she had more mix ups since she still has her hindrances

"Phase would be a low A tier if she had M O R E M I X U P S" Also my previous comment wasnt directed towards Naotora? It was meant for Phase

 

[KasumiLover]

"Phase would be a low A tier if she had M O R E M I X U P S" Also my previous comment wasnt directed towards Naotora? It was meant for Phase

Ohh XD and yeah phase needs more since her base strings are mostly watered down Kasumi strings. Like her 6P doesn't have the low follow up, her P+K doesn't have the low follow up or the wave dash transition on block and her 3P and 3K don't have any of Kasumi's mix ups which I feel hurts her

 

[Bacaww]

Also since were talking about tier lists, here's mine:
S+:
S:
A:

B:

C:

 

[Radiance]

I know what Eliot can do xD His linearity and somewhat slow speed s

I just broke this down to you..

 

[YEH]

Also since were talking about tier lists, here's mine:
S+:
S:
A:

B:

C:

And thus he replied <No, miss Helena took my place in this one>

 

[Bacaww]

And thus he replied <No, miss Helena took my place in this one>

I knew i forgot someone lel

Ohh XD and yeah phase needs more since her base strings are mostly watered down Kasumi strings. Like her 6P doesn't have the low follow up, her P+K doesn't have the low follow up or the wave dash transition on block and her 3P and 3K don't have any of Kasumi's mix ups which I feel hurts her

Also KL I hopped on my PS4 just to edit this video for you lol

 

[KasumiLover]

I knew i forgot someone lel

Also KL I hopped on my PS4 just to edit this video for you lol

...What was the point of this video? XD Those aren't mix ups, that's free cancelling you're doing, free cancelling is not finishing your string so you can do something else. Mix ups are string dependent follow ups that your opponent has to guess to stop, like Kasumi's 6P2K is a mix up since the string has the go to 6PP which is a mid high, 6PK which is a mid to mid kick, and 6P6K which is a mid to jumping mid kick.

Also 1P imo isn't so much a good free cancel in my eyes since its not threatening since the follow up is static unless you decide to free cancel for a throw bait. Your opponent just doesnt seem to catch on that you're gonna bait for a launch or a hi counter throw unfortunately xD

 

[Bacaww]

...What was the point of this video? XD Those aren't mix ups, that's free cancelling you're doing, free cancelling is not finishing your string so you can do something else. Mix ups are string dependent follow ups that your opponent has to guess to stop, like Kasumi's 6P2K is a mix up since the string has the go to 6PP which is a mid high, 6PK which is a mid to mid kick, and 6P6K which is a mid to jumping mid kick.

Also 1P imo isn't so much a good free cancel in my eyes since its not threatening since the follow up is static unless you decide to free cancel for a throw bait. Your opponent just doesnt seem to catch on that you're gonna bait for a launch or a hi counter throw unfortunately xD

Mix-ups arent secluded to strings nor their follow ups lol, as you can see in the video my opponent decided to not tech after the teleport cancel which led into a reset when I crushed the low wake up kick. After that I a hi counter throw which leads into another force tech situation, my opponent could have decided to not tech like before, or tech up and press a button. What it means was that they were in a situation where they had to guess between two options, hell if that isnt a mix-up then idk. Also if mix-ups are "string dependant follow ups that your opponent has to guess to stop" what happened at when I jumped over the wake up kick with 66K and my opponent had to guess between 4 options: The punch, the kick, the throw or a cancel into another reset (which is what I did) and the 3P option that followed after?

And regarding the 1P string, I didn't even free-cancel lol the string just went into a teleport. The reason I used the string was because I play with the guy in my vid a lot and I have come to understand how he plays and what he likes to do, so more like a habit thing

 

[KasumiLover]

Mix-ups arent secluded to strings nor their follow ups lol, as you can see in the video my opponent decided to not tech after the teleport cancel which led into a reset when I crushed the low wake up kick. After that I a hi counter throw which leads into another force tech situation, my opponent could have decided to not tech like before, or tech up and press a button. What it means was that they were in a situation where they had to guess between two options, hell if that isnt a mix-up then idk. Also if mix-ups are "string dependant follow ups that your opponent has to guess to stop" what happened at when I jumped over the wake up kick with 66K and my opponent had to guess between 4 options: The punch, the kick, the throw or a cancel into another reset (which is what I did) and the 3P option that followed after?

And regarding the 1P string, I didn't even free-cancel lol the string just went into a teleport. The reason I used the string was because I play with the guy in my vid a lot and I have come to understand how he plays and what he likes to do, so more like a habit thing

You're over complicating things. When I said Phase 4 needs more mix ups I meant string options, you're doing free cancels which everyone has and saying those are mix ups when they're not, those are free cancels. For example, there's a big difference between doing Kasumi's 6PK2K and just doing 6PK and then doing 2H+K, the first is one of her mix ups from the 6P string and the second is where she just free cancels and does 2H+K which she can already do as a mix up if she does 6PK2K.

 

[Onryoki]

I knew i forgot someone lel

Also KL I hopped on my PS4 just to edit this video for you lol

... you had to use our match of yesterday huh? No but seriously that was a GG. Too bad I panicked that round and was overwhelmed by your confusing tactics.

...What was the point of this video? XD Those aren't mix ups, that's free cancelling you're doing, free cancelling is not finishing your string so you can do something else. Mix ups are string dependent follow ups that your opponent has to guess to stop, like Kasumi's 6P2K is a mix up since the string has the go to 6PP which is a mid high, 6PK which is a mid to mid kick, and 6P6K which is a mid to jumping mid kick.

Also 1P imo isn't so much a good free cancel in my eyes since its not threatening since the follow up is static unless you decide to free cancel for a throw bait. Your opponent just doesnt seem to catch on that you're gonna bait for a launch or a hi counter throw unfortunately xD

Isn’t that a different string though? I personally thought mixups were more like a set up but you do something else. I see where you’re coming from though.

Mix-ups arent secluded to strings nor their follow ups lol, as you can see in the video my opponent decided to not tech after the teleport cancel which led into a reset when I crushed the low wake up kick. After that I a hi counter throw which leads into another force tech situation, my opponent could have decided to not tech like before, or tech up and press a button. What it means was that they were in a situation where they had to guess between two options, hell if that isnt a mix-up then idk. Also if mix-ups are "string dependant follow ups that your opponent has to guess to stop" what happened at when I jumped over the wake up kick with 66K and my opponent had to guess between 4 options: The punch, the kick, the throw or a cancel into another reset (which is what I did) and the 3P option that followed after?

And regarding the 1P string, I didn't even free-cancel lol the string just went into a teleport. The reason I used the string was because I play with the guy in my vid a lot and I have come to understand how he plays and what he likes to do, so more like a habit thing

You can mention my name haha I don’t mind!

 

[Kensei_warlord]

Some may think mix-up is secluded to strings...
you should respect that...

Example...
For me, doing attacks never need to hold...
For some, doing attacks need to hold...
I should respect their way... right?

 

[KasumiLover]

... you had to use our match of yesterday huh? No but seriously that was a GG.


Isn’t that a different string though? I personally thought mixups were more like a set up but you do something else. I see where you’re coming from though.

You can mention my name haha I don’t mind!

No, mix ups are different follow-ups from strings, doing something else or baiting is a free cancel. And is that you? I knew the playstyle and the reactions seemed familiar

 

[Bacaww]

You're over complicating things. When I said Phase 4 needs more mix ups I meant string options, you're doing free cancels which everyone has and saying those are mix ups when they're not, those are free cancels. For example, there's a big difference between doing Kasumi's 6PK2K and just doing 6PK and then doing 2H+K, the first is one of her mix ups from the 6P string and the second is where she just free cancels and does 2H+K which she can already do as a mix up if she does 6PK2K.

Its because youre simplifying the meaning of a mix-up, a mix-up is a situation where a player has to guess between multiple options, whether that be a string option or the choice to tech up. The video showcases examples of this happening on multiple occassions but it seems like youre so set on the meaning of it that theres really no point discussing

@King Anubis I tend to protect the identity of those who I buttfck lel

 

[Onryoki]

Mixup is a strategy or technique of making one's attacks more difficult to predict. And that’s exactly what @Bacaww did. If you use a string with a different ending it’s not mixup but a different string.

 

[KasumiLover]

Its because youre simplifying the meaning of a mix-up, a mix-up is a situation where a player has to guess between multiple options, whether that be a string option or the choice to tech up. The video showcases examples of this happening on multiple occassions but it seems like youre so set on the meaning of it that theres really no point discussing

I don't believe teching up coincides with a mix up, in that case you're talking about oki, which has to do with pressuring the opponent on the ground. In the case with your 66K you avoided his wake up low it/crushed it which is different. Had he did a mid wake up kick you would've failed in that case and the momentum would have shifted.