Eliot - Pseudo Force Techs
- Thread starter TakedaZX
- Start date
Dat Nyucah
New Member
, or (if they don't tech). I like more though personally, it has less recovery on whiff if they tech.Ending combos with strings that finish with
(e.g.: ) work if they don't tech as well. I don't know any that are guaranteed though. If someone can find some that are, I may go back to playing him, lol. He's great, but I'm hooked on Akira (despite the headache, lol). 
ScattereDreams
Well-Known Member
Untechable against wall vs. Light weights.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Against heavy weights, drop one of the
Your Choryu is the key to this untechable. They all have to be on point!
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Against heavy weights, drop one of the
Your Choryu is the key to this untechable. They all have to be on point!
Belinea
Active Member
So DOA5 1.03 and 1.03a really slaughtered Eliot's ground game, which was something that was never really fully understood, but was, in my opinion, a huge part to his game. With all the recent news about the complete removal of the ground game in 5U, I thought I post up some information that has long become redundant anyway. There was a lot data I used to have but I only ever memorized it, as opposed to writing it down (which I have now forgotten because I'm an idiot). Also, I didn't include some set-ups because I couldn't understand the manner in which I wrote them down in (d'oh). I never did the same level of research for 1.03 onwards because I stopped enjoying the game. And one last thing - I haven't tested these in a long time, so feel free to load up 1.02 and tell me that I'm full of shit.
Before I start though, these are important points to make (if you didn't already know them by now):
Wall Unholdables:
2k is unholdable after 2h+k force tech
2p is unholdable after 2h+k force tech
1k is unholdable after 2p+k force tech
1p is unholdable after 8k force tech
236k becomes unholdable after 2k if they tech roll
214p becomes unholdable after 2k if they tech roll
If the opponent tech rolls after being hit from the air with 1p by the wall, then pp is unholdable.
Open space unholdables:
Hitting the opponent to the ground with 6p (take this combo as an example: 8p, 6p, 6p) turns 66p+k unholdable if they tech roll
Hitting the opponent to the ground with 3k turns 66p+k unholdable if they tech roll
Situational unholdables after tech roll:
After teching from 1p+kp, 236k is unholdable but won't always reach the opponent.
After teching from kk, 66k is sometimes unholdable
After teching from 33p2p, ssk is sometimes unholdable
Open space throw frame traps:
66h+p beats all throws and all mid or high strikes if the opponent tech rolls after being hit from the air with 1p
4h+p beats all throws and all mid or high strikes if the opponent tech rolls after being hit from the air with 1p
Untechables from 236f+p:
Lightweight: 236f+p, 6k, 2p+kp+k, 2p+k
Lightweight close to wall: 236f+p, p+k, 8p, 8p, 2p+k
Heavyweight: 236f+p, p+k, 7p, 2k
Heavyweight close to wall: 236f+p, p+k, 2f+k
Any weight, anywhere: 236f+p, pp, 2p+k
General untechables*:
Every weight: 6f+k, 2k
Lightweight: 2f+kp, 8p, 2k
Lightweight: 9kk, 8p, 8k
Lightweight: 1p+kk, 8k
Lightweight: 8p, 8p, 8p, 8p, 2p
Lightweight: 33p, 8p, 2k
Lightweight: on BT opponent 6f+k, 2p+kp+k, 2p+k (needs more testing)
Middleweight: 8p, 8p, 8p, 8p, 2k
Up to middleweight: 1p+kk, 1k
Up to middleweight: 9kk, 8p, 1k
Heavyweight: 9kk, 8p, 2k
Heavyweight: 8p, 9k, 2p+k
Heavyweight: 9kk, 8p, 2k (66p is unholdable if timed right)
Heavyweight: 8p, 3p, 3p, 8p, 2k
* I never put choryo into my untechable set-ups due to the human error factor. I know such set-ups exist though, but someone else will have to find them. Also, I try my best to find the quickest method to get an untechable. Assume any weight versions will work on heavyweight if you add more hits to the stun threshold.
Before I start though, these are important points to make (if you didn't already know them by now):
- Untechables no longer exist like they did in DOA4. The opponent is never stuck to the ground, but untechables now (or did pre-1.03) force a mix-up were the opponent is given the option to stay on the ground and eat a force tech, or tech roll but be put into a state were they mightn't be able to hold the next attack. Essentially DOA4's ground game was left completely intact, but for tech roll's only.
- In what must have been a oversight, forceteching an opponent still allowed for lows to become unholdable. I assume it was because the low was hitting the opponent on the extra frame it takes for low holds to come out. So stuff like Kokoro's infamous 2h+kk into 6k+p still existed, but it was possible to hold the high and not the low despite both attacks landing at the same time.
- Untechables or force techs weren't removed from 1.03, just their ability to force unholdable situations. As such, most of these examples should then still exist (I haven't tested them in 1.03), just without unholdable follow-ups.
- In what must have been a glitch, lows and highs could become unholdable at the wall after a force tech. I assume it was a glitch because the numbers never added up - some of the attacks that became unholdable were so slow that it made no sense for them to be unholdable.
Wall Unholdables:
2k is unholdable after 2h+k force tech
2p is unholdable after 2h+k force tech
1k is unholdable after 2p+k force tech
1p is unholdable after 8k force tech
236k becomes unholdable after 2k if they tech roll
214p becomes unholdable after 2k if they tech roll
If the opponent tech rolls after being hit from the air with 1p by the wall, then pp is unholdable.
Open space unholdables:
Hitting the opponent to the ground with 6p (take this combo as an example: 8p, 6p, 6p) turns 66p+k unholdable if they tech roll
Hitting the opponent to the ground with 3k turns 66p+k unholdable if they tech roll
Situational unholdables after tech roll:
After teching from 1p+kp, 236k is unholdable but won't always reach the opponent.
After teching from kk, 66k is sometimes unholdable
After teching from 33p2p, ssk is sometimes unholdable
Open space throw frame traps:
66h+p beats all throws and all mid or high strikes if the opponent tech rolls after being hit from the air with 1p
4h+p beats all throws and all mid or high strikes if the opponent tech rolls after being hit from the air with 1p
Untechables from 236f+p:
Lightweight: 236f+p, 6k, 2p+kp+k, 2p+k
Lightweight close to wall: 236f+p, p+k, 8p, 8p, 2p+k
Heavyweight: 236f+p, p+k, 7p, 2k
Heavyweight close to wall: 236f+p, p+k, 2f+k
Any weight, anywhere: 236f+p, pp, 2p+k
General untechables*:
Every weight: 6f+k, 2k
Lightweight: 2f+kp, 8p, 2k
Lightweight: 9kk, 8p, 8k
Lightweight: 1p+kk, 8k
Lightweight: 8p, 8p, 8p, 8p, 2p
Lightweight: 33p, 8p, 2k
Lightweight: on BT opponent 6f+k, 2p+kp+k, 2p+k (needs more testing)
Middleweight: 8p, 8p, 8p, 8p, 2k
Up to middleweight: 1p+kk, 1k
Up to middleweight: 9kk, 8p, 1k
Heavyweight: 9kk, 8p, 2k
Heavyweight: 8p, 9k, 2p+k
Heavyweight: 9kk, 8p, 2k (66p is unholdable if timed right)
Heavyweight: 8p, 3p, 3p, 8p, 2k
* I never put choryo into my untechable set-ups due to the human error factor. I know such set-ups exist though, but someone else will have to find them. Also, I try my best to find the quickest method to get an untechable. Assume any weight versions will work on heavyweight if you add more hits to the stun threshold.
ScattereDreams
Well-Known Member
You're my hero