Found something incredibly annoying that killed MY fun immediately. Strats Needed

[dramic91]

I'm not saying I discovered this, but I had the displeasure of experiencing it. So I'm playing tag online and I'm playing against some guys who are tagged up (one of them may have been a woman...the voice was a little...strange). The names don't matter. I'm having an off night and one of them is using Christie who is a terrible match up for me. Needless to say, I'm getting my ass handed to me. But it was fine, it was still pretty good fighting overall and I respected them. Then they pick Momiji and Rachel. So Rachel somehow gets you in the air. Doesn't matter, but she gets you in the air then does her air throw. After the bounce she does her 9P (I believe) and Momiji tags in and does 6PKK. Rachel comes in, does her air throw. After the bounce, 9P and tag in Momiji. 6PKK, followed by Rachel's air throw, 9P into an untechable set-up with 2K. From there it's a guessing game that you're bound to lose, especially playing a slower character like Brad. Then it's the same thing over and over again. Now, I'm stubborn and refuse to just stop fighting someone because of that, but this got me damn near close.

Anyone else run into this and have any suggestions as to how I can avoid it or escape if I'm caught in it? Please no smart ass responses talking bout "Learn to play the game and stop bitching." I can play the game, but as far as I'm concerned, this isn't playing the game, this is an entirely different turd.

 

[David Gregg]

I will admit right now I suck balls at Tag (the Vita didn't have it and that's the version I played most with) but it's even more insane in this one. lol. I was against an amazing Helena/Christie team and once one of my characters were launched it was basically an instant K.O. lol

 

[dramic91]

I don't usually lose my cool, but I had like just gotten off a 10 hour shift and was so frustrated. I sent possibly the corniest message to one of them haha. I was just so damn frustrated. Like that's exactly what's always bothered me about fighting games. The worst part is that they didn't just do it for one match. It was at least 7 or 8 matches and they did it every single round.

 

[David Gregg]

Yup definitely sounds like a typical tag match with the same endless combo being used over and over again. That's why I stick to solo personally. Maybe someday I'll try and put more effort into tag. ha ha

 

[dramic91]

Well tag can be so much fun when it's executed really well and with some skill. These guys totally could've done that too. Not sure why you'd choose to win with an annoying, damn near inescapable combo instead, but that's just me.

 

[StrikerSashi]

It is kind of impressive when you see people act in sync like that, though, especially over netplay. Not that it makes it any less annoying when you're the one floating in the air for 10 seconds.

 

[synce]

I really don't see anything annoying about that... you can always play singles if you don't like juggle focused gameplay

 

[MasterHavik]

And that is why I don't care for tag.

 

[WetNightmare]

an annoying, damn near inescapable combo instead, but that's just me.

Since when were combos meant to be escapable? Isn't that the point? Where's the actual grievance here? What's the damage like? Is it simply that you have to deal with a little frame advantage on wakeup? Does okizeme really upset players these days that much?

What troubles me about this post (Grabby, misleading title aside) is that I personally feel it's THIS type of rhetoric that caused the nigh-universal force tech nerf to come about in the first place.

 

[Aven Kujo-Gin]

That's why I want more gravity in tag.

 

[mpgeist]

I'm a noob but isn't this the kind of stuff to expect from tag? I try to stay away from it because of stuff like this. That and I don't have the skill to do long strings lol.

 

[d3v]

To the OP, thank you for bringing this to light. I'll be sure to practice this and figure out how to make it practical offline.

On a more serious note, first off skill in competitive fighting games more often than not revolves around finding the best, most efficient ways to win over your opponent. Style or variety isn't important, it's about mitigating risks while maximizing damage. Stuff like this loop is simple the natural result of that.

Also, it's tag, so no combo can do more than 50% damage because you have two characters. More importantly, the game has no incoming mixup unlike tag games such as the Marvel Vs series and Skullgirls. Losing a character resets the game to neutral unlike in other games where the incoming character is at a positional disadvantage. Finally, the lower gravity also helps solo characters since it means that they can put out extra damage (compared to solo mode). This is important in tag since you want solo characters to be able to put out as much as possible to help mitigate the slippery slope factor.

 

[dramic91]

What bothers me isn't that it's a juggle. I've been playing since DOA 2, I know what tag is for. No need to be condescending. I don't mind getting juggled. I wouldn't play tag if I did. Or any fighting games. What bothers me is that once the combo is done, and I think it's a maximum of 3 or 4 times before you fall, Rachel can do her 2K to force tech you. I don't mind force techs, but this is untechable, unavoidable. I know how to tech but you just can't do it. At least not online. It's just a never ending string of those same moves.

Besides, if the good people of FreeStepDodge read a bit more carefully, I'm not on here to bitch about this. If you look again, I'm asking if anyone has advice on how to escape from this (if possible) or how to avoid it. If you think your response is going to be anything along the lines of "don't play tag if you don't like juggles" just don't respond. If you've got some advice, it's highly appreciated. I'd like to become a better player, not be talked down to over the internet.

And d3v, you and I have had this conversation before. You're free to keep talking about it but we've both stated our opinions before and it doesn't need to happen again.

 

[d3v]

Because there seem to be some serious problems with the way you think/approach these things which may be limiting your actual performance in game. The most obvious one is what you define as "skill." While I don't know what your exact definition is, it seems to be one based on a back-and-forth, high risk style that emphasizes variety over efficiency. I'll give that this maybe valid, and being able to pull off different moves and setups, regardless of their efficiency may be called "skill". However, as the saying goes "play to win, not to demonstrate skill." Unless you internalize that and let go of any preconceived notions of how you need to play the game, no amount of tech and counter-tech will help you in the long run. That mental limit will simply hold you back.

As for actual counter tech, there are many ways to go about this.

-Counterpick: find a character/team that does well against Rachel/Momiji.
-Optimize: figure out your own sort of damaging/abusive tech.
-Observe: learn to be able to read your opponent. What are their favorite ways to go into the launcher? What situations does your opponent hate. I'd say 60% of playing any fighting game is down to reading your opponent.

 

[dramic91]

Because there seem to be some serious problems with the way you think/approach these things which may be limiting your actual performance in game. The most obvious one is what you define as "skill." While I don't know what your exact definition is, it seems to be one based on a back-and-forth, high risk style that emphasizes variety over efficiency. I'll give that this maybe valid, and being able to pull off different moves and setups, regardless of their efficiency may be called "skill". However, as the saying goes "play to win, not to demonstrate skill." Unless you internalize that and let go of any preconceived notions of how you need to play the game, no amount of tech and counter-tech will help you in the long run. That mental limit will simply hold you back.

As for actual counter tech, there are many ways to go about this.

-Counterpick: find a character/team that does well against Rachel/Momiji.
-Optimize: figure out your own sort of damaging/abusive tech.
-Observe: learn to be able to read your opponent. What are their favorite ways to go into the launcher? What situations does your opponent hate. I'd say 60% of playing any fighting game is down to reading your opponent.

Haha dude, I'm not approaching this like it's my job. My "performance" is fine. I won't internalize that saying because that doesn't sound fun to me. I'm playing a video game to have fun, not to just win. Losing can be fun for me too. The high risk, varied play style is what I enjoy the most. Even if just doing 6H+K with Brad would win me every match, I wouldn't do it. I don't have fun like that and I don't have fun abusing strategies. Whether I win or lose is entirely unimportant to me. I just want to have fun. The reason I have a problem with this "tactic" is not that it's a juggle (just one more time: NOT THAT IT'S A JUGGLE). It's that it makes matches violently dull.

As to the second part of your post, thanks! Reading opponents seems to be a bit tough for me lately. I used to be pretty good at it, but now I think I just psyche myself out sometimes.

 

[Awesmic]

It really comes down to Rachel making a mistake with 2k, but keep in mind that even if you do tech out of it, you'll have to anticipate her quickest follow-ups immediately after you tech (I think she has an 11 frame jab and a 13-frame mid). If you know she's gonna throw you again (which will most likely happen if you got a life lead), buffer a launcher that high crushes. She may be in the heaviest weight class, but it's a better option than nothing against a throw.

 

[Chapstick]

I've actually seen Rachel do her stomp to someone that had already tech rolled as they hit the ground. I don't know if it was an online glitch or something TN put in on purpose, but that's hella BS. You tech roll so you don't get force teched or ground attacked but Rachel says "uh unh doesn't matter" and it happens anyway.

As for Rachel's throw combos they're boring and slow as hell to watch so I can't imagine sitting through it for a whole match nonstop. I do the simple juggle with Kas Aya of Kas PKK7K~6P+KKK Aya PPPK Kas PP7K~6P+KKK Aya PPPK Kas PP7K~6P+KKK until the opponent falls but at least that goes by quickly.

 

[d3v]

Haha dude, I'm not approaching this like it's my job. My "performance" is fine. I won't internalize that saying because that doesn't sound fun to me. I'm playing a video game to have fun, not to just win. Losing can be fun for me too. The high risk, varied play style is what I enjoy the most. Even if just doing 6H+K with Brad would win me every match, I wouldn't do it. I don't have fun like that and I don't have fun abusing strategies. Whether I win or lose is entirely unimportant to me. I just want to have fun. The reason I have a problem with this "tactic" is not that it's a juggle (just one more time: NOT THAT IT'S A JUGGLE). It's that it makes matches violently dull.

As to the second part of your post, thanks! Reading opponents seems to be a bit tough for me lately. I used to be pretty good at it, but now I think I just psyche myself out sometimes.

Then at least don't make value judgement of calling stuff "trash" when people do them because they are playing to win.

 

[dramic91]

Then at least don't make value judgement of calling stuff "trash" when people do them because they are playing to win.

But as far as I'm concerned it is trash. That is my value judgment. I'm not demanding that everyone take my side, not sure why you assume I'm stating it like it's a fact...

 

[Sixmsj]

At the max, you only lose 50% of your total health bar. I don't see anything wrong with that. It looks like they can't kill you off in one juggle, so it's not even 50%. Compare that with Alpha or the random characters from solo who could do more than 50% from a singleton.

Haha dude, I'm not approaching this like it's my job. My "performance" is fine. I won't internalize that saying because that doesn't sound fun to me. I'm playing a video game to have fun, not to just win. Losing can be fun for me too. The high risk, varied play style is what I enjoy the most. Even if just doing 6H+K with Brad would win me every match, I wouldn't do it. I don't have fun like that and I don't have fun abusing strategies. Whether I win or lose is entirely unimportant to me. I just want to have fun. The reason I have a problem with this "tactic" is not that it's a juggle (just one more time: NOT THAT IT'S A JUGGLE). It's that it makes matches violently dull.

As to the second part of your post, thanks! Reading opponents seems to be a bit tough for me lately. I used to be pretty good at it, but now I think I just psyche myself out sometimes.

If you're asking for advice on how to get better, I'd suggest changing your mindset against 'abusing strategies'. They seem at total crossroads.