Gripes with the system

[StrikerSashi]

As far as I know, they can't hit you after backtech unless you try to press a button that isn't block.

 

[Batcommander]

I would also say that there should be something done to grappler neutral throws to make them worthwhile to use (make them give frame advantage upon escape or upon landing them, make them 5 frames but inescapable, something like that), but ppl may complain about them. I just feel that grapplers should have more to them than just "6 frame throw punishes and 1-2 good throws." Suggestions are welcome, lol.

yes i agree with you here. i would like some faster OHs tbh, like around i10-12. They would help tremendously against pressure i think, im not a fan of how all the OHs in this game are so slow. People should be afraid to get close to grapplers, not the other way around lol.

 

[Argentus]

As far as I know, they can't hit you after backtech unless you try to press a button that isn't block.

What seems to happen, is they are getting me before I can block. As in, already holding it, but character hasn't transitioned from roll to block yet

 

[Drake Aldan]

What seems to happen, is they are getting me before I can block. As in, already holding it, but character hasn't transitioned from roll to block yet

Can you get some video? That would be the best thing.

 

[Argentus]

Can you get some video? That would be the best thing.

I can make a YouTube or facebook later, see if Amy of my replays show what I'm talking about.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

Maybe grappler's should have i4 unbreakable punishment grabs as in 6F+P being i4? Outside of Helena's hand slaps she has one attack that is -2, everything else is -5 at best and yet I have never had anyone try to throw punish with an i4 neutral grab.

 

[d3v]

I wish more moves were safe, like SC2 safe.

 

[Dr.Bhup]

Hey guys, another noob question here. Don't know where to post, maybe it's system-related so I'll ask here.

I'm still trying to learn the game and watching videos I often see this, could somebody care to explain the reason behind it? Ok, here goes:

When two players are spacing and suddenly one og them starts the offence and the other blocks it and it's now his turn to start the offence, I often see the first player does a low hold. Why a low hold all of the sudden? Is that a good strategy thet is often used at high levels?

My theory so far is that they probably have safe frames and think that they'll duck a high retaliation and instead of just ducking they also do a low hold in case the opponent did a low poke. So instead of just blocking they are now safe against highs (that will whiff) and lows that will be held. Is this correct?

But my main gripe with this is that if the opponent decides to do a mid attack it will connect as a hi-counter which is really bad... so how come I see so much of this 'random low hold' situation?


Edit: maybe it's not a low hold, maybe it's high or mid but the character sure seems to be ducking...?!

Edit 2: Are they buffering a fluffy guard (flurry guard? fuzzy guard?) or something like that? What is that anyway and how is it done? What's the point?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Chapstick]

Hey guys, another noob question here. Don't know where to post, maybe it's system-related so I'll ask here.

I'm still trying to learn the game and watching videos I often see this, could somebody care to explain the reason behind it? Ok, here goes:

When two players are spacing and suddenly one og them starts the offence and the other blocks it and it's now his turn to start the offence, I often see the first player does a low hold. Why a low hold all of the sudden? Is that a good strategy thet is often used at high levels?

My theory so far is that because they probably have safe frames and think that I'll duck a high retaliation and instead of just ducking they also do a low hold in case the opponent did a low poke. So instead of just blocking they are now safe against highs (that will whiff) and lows that will be held. Is this correct?

But my main gripe with this is that if the opponent did a mid attack it will connect as a hi-counter which is really bad... so how come I see so much of this 'random low hold' situation?


Edit: maybe it's not a low hold, maybe it's high or mid but the character sure seems to be ducking...?!

Edit 2: Are they buffering a fluffy guard (flurry gueard) or something like that? What is that anyway and how is it done? What's the point?

Thanks in advance!

Yup, those are low holds. They duck highs and standing throws, hold incoming lows, and are a pain in the ass. 5U increased the recovery on them to stop people from spamming them but they still do anyway. You can even do them while you're stunned. Low throw for good damage.

My favorite thing is when I'm hold baiting someone, hear the "huh!" whiffed hold grunt, instinctively go to throw, and well, well, well, what do you know they held low. My reactions need work.

 

[Drake Aldan]

But my main gripe with this is that if the opponent decides to do a mid attack it will connect as a hi-counter which is really bad... so how come I see so much of this 'random low hold' situation?

It won't connect Hi-Counter (that's only strike vs. throw)- but it will connect crouching, which does have special effects with some mids.

As said, a low hold ducks highs, ducks standing throws, and holds lows. In other words, it's another form of a crouch.

The thing is, you never expect a person to crouch in this manner (at least not initially) so it tends to throw you off.


But it's no problem! As you've said, if they crouch, all that means is you need to pop them with a mid to teach them a lesson.

This prevalence of low holding is why I tend to shy away from using highs as stun extenders; I would rather stick to mid punch/mid kick and then throw punish a hold, than go for a high and have it whiff because they low held.

Edit 2: Are they buffering a fluffy guard (flurry guard? fuzzy guard?) or something like that? What is that anyway and how is it done? What's the point?

Someone will have to explain better than me, but fuzzy guard is a method of defense done at very specific times (certain amount of disadvantage, against certain mixups, etc.) that ducks faster moves (highs, throws) and blocks slower moves (i.e. mid launchers/slower pokes).

The notation for fuzzy guard is . (a crouch dash into guard).

As an example, see here how fuzzy guard completely demolishes Momiji's Tenku stance on block.

YouTube

10 5 1,924

0:36

DOA5U Dealing with Momiji's attacks from Tenku by UprisingJC

 

[StrikerSashi]

Sometimes people are cheeky after doing a negative move and will do a high crushing low attack after to try to beat a high poke or a throw from the guy who just blocked.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

I have no gripes with the system.

I have gripes with the System ONLINE... everything goes down to shit ..
for example ... Ayane's 3P2K ... (with the 3P being blocked) the 2K is guaranteed online ... its uncrouchable, unholdable..you just have to eat it ... what is this !? .. not to mention that you naturally cannot throw punish it either since your getting hit with it EVERY DAMN TIME.

What makes it more frustrating is that I currently have NO offline scene and online is my only training outlet .. and its teaching me really shitty bad habits and feel like I'm drastically leveling down.

I know this is completely off topic but I just wanted to vent ..
OK, rant over .. carry on ..

 

[Awesmic]

My gameplay ideas to answer certain personal gripes I have with the system will probably be shitted on and laughed at by the current top/high level/veteran players, but I'll share anyway.



1) The current DOA5U's buffer timing - for better or worse - has been optimized for use of the arcade stick (likely for the upcoming DOA5U arcade release). For longtime players who have been used to playing on pad, this may pose a bit of an adjusting problem for some... particularly for those who play more execution-heavy characters. There should be an option to change the buffering system from DOA5U to Vanila's, or rather, arcade or pad buffering.



2) Although some guaranteed force techs are being discovered following bound stuns, I would much prefer the return of DOA4's ground game where force techs were easier to judge.


3) If Power Blows guard break and give significant advantage on block at 50% health, why not Power Launchers at 50% health?


4) Normal health standard should revert back to 270.


5) Implement a semi-tracking (quarter-circular) move mechanic in the game. In VF, there were certain spinning moves that could only be stepped in one specific direction. With this, sidestepping could be more strategic, and linear characters like Kokoro may have more of a slight edge against highly evasive characters such as Christie.


6) Breakable command throws. Combo throws and neutral throws should not be the only breakable throws.


7) Add side throws in the game. At this point, pretty much every 3D fighter worth its salt has side throws. We have unique sidestep punches and kicks, so why not take the next step and have side throws? In fact, why not make side throws unbreakable in trade for breakable command throws, combo throws, and neutral throws?



8) Give all characters at least one mid expert defensive hold/sabaki/parry with the intent to keep the offensive pressure going with guaranteed setups or opening a mixup (much like in DOA1), as opposed to breaking the flow of battle with a knockdown from a defensive hold. If other types of throws become breakable, this too could be a fair tradeoff to quicken the pace of a match..

 

[iHajinShinobi]

My only "gripe" with DOA5U is the ground game/oki, where it stands. Vanilla's was a good direction and allowed the aggressor to keep offensive momentum.

Also to those saying backdashing is ass in this game, Korean Back Dashing is a wonderful technique. I suggest you learn what that is, and how to use it.

 

[MasterHavik]

I wish more moves were safe, like SC2 safe.

lol and people bitch about that game being turtle heavy. american FGC likes pressing buttons and beating the shit out of their opponent. But you should check Zack or Rachel frame data in 5U it's a huge step in the right direction compared to the other games.

 

[d3v]

My only "gripe" with DOA5U is the ground game/oki, where it stands. Vanilla's was a good direction and allowed the aggressor to keep offensive momentum.

Also to those saying backdashing is ass in this game, Korean Back Dashing is a wonderful technique. I suggest you learn what that is, and how to use it.

Do I sense a tutorial vid in the near future?

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Do I sense a tutorial vid in the near future?

I probably could if I talk to my people. I still need to do an Ayane tutorial too.

 

[MasterHavik]

I probably could if I talk to my people. I still need to do an Ayane tutorial too.

I hate the character, but I watch.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Dug this up from our DOA skype group, was an interesting chat about neutral game and oki. Quoted wall of text of my opinion and observations;

The group asked me about oki in DOA5U.

I want to say--that ground game and oki as opposed to force techs were a good direction for DOA. It allowed the aggressor to continue their aggression and force the defensive player into 50/50 situations that favor the aggressor (when I watch SSF4 I think about their 50/50 situations then think about DOA5 vanilla's, a little similar ONLY in the sense that the aggressor retains their advantage, they have cross ups and meatys, we have force techs, but they both allow for the same concept).

In 5U, the wake up kicks being as they are now, as in the sense of them being weaker than any other DOA game (ever), it's good. Because WUK's (wake up kicks) should not be feared, forcing aggressors to back away and allow for a dumb neutral game to be had. If I knock you down, I should retain my advantages and keep you on your toes.

For the most part, Rachel is doing this, and it's correct, except for the whiff bullshit. What "DOA players" don't understand is that they are used to the ground being what it is because of the WUKs. When a character forces you up, be it oki or force tech, players want to constantly attack from distadvantage. Rachel punishes this, and in turn it should be teaching players NOT to press buttons at disadvantage but its not doing that.

[10/17/2013 5:56:41 PM] HajinShinobi: You are supposed to get up and block, and pay attention to what your opponent is trying to do next instead of worrying about what attack to use to get out.

[10/17/2013 5:56:53 PM] HajinShinobi: This is just pure guessing, instead of reading.

[10/17/2013 5:57:06 PM] HajinShinobi: Hardly anyone in DOA is reading anything.

[10/17/2013 5:57:58 PM] HajinShinobi: They force themselves to guess more than they have to, guessing in this game is the same as the others. Players either don't have enough fundamental sense or are just very ignorant to any situation they are put in.

 

[Requiem]

I probably could if I talk to my people. I still need to do an Ayane tutorial too.

Of course I'll help record if you want me to. You know that.