HoodsXx
Well-Known Member
Since there's no topic for this as of yet, I thought I'd make a thread about it. Don't know if anybody saw Master's stream yesterday explaining how unholdables work in DoA but if not, I'll re-cap what he had said.
This information applies to Hayabusa but the formula and the way of finding unholdable setups apply the same way for everyone else. (Remember this DOES NOT apply to roll back techrolls)
(In Dojo,Tatami)
Pick Hayabusa and go ahead and set the computer to tech roll and second action to hold. After doing that do the following set up and make sure to HOLD after the combo to see the hidden data and read the explanation below.
Normal hit Hayabusa QCF+Punch, then 8P,3PPP = +26 Frames on techroll and plus the cpu holding.
When you hold during an opponents recovery to find out the hidden frame data, You must take into consideration the initial frame of the hold. Normally the example above would have been -5 if the CPU did NOT hold which would mean you would only be +25 after doing the subtraction of your initial hold but, again, the game is also taking into account the initial frame of the hold. When both you and cpu hold then you cancel out the initial frame since both of you are doing the same move to find the same information and the game takes into account the CPU’s initial frame for the hold and yours. The end result is that the +26 is the correct amount of frame advantage.
Also +26 is the amount of frames your opponent cannot move. Theoretically speaking and assuming that your opponent decides to hold after the tech roll then the hold wouldn’t actually become active until the next following frame of you actually being able to move. +26 is your +advantage but the 27th frame means you can now move, block, attack or do something and the 28th frame would be the hold becoming active.
This theory make sense currently because the move that is currently unholdable is hayabusa's QCF+Punch after the techroll to the side, which according to the games Frame data is 25Frames but we all know it doesn't become active until the 27th frame.
I just showed you that you are allowed to move, block or do something on the 27th frame but the hold WILL NOT come out until the 28th frame. I know this to be true because if you set the CPU to attack instead of hold then the game will register the fact that he attacked on the 27th frame and will show a counter hit on the screen. This also applies to Sidestepping by the way.
The Sidestep doesn't become active until the 1st frame so if your opponent were to sidestep in this situation it would be considered NORMAL hit instead of counter hit because the set up didn't allow for the sidestep to have enough time to activate.
Apply this same formula from Hayabusa to your character and you will see that this applies to everyone in the cast and it will probably be the most consistent way to test unholdable set ups.
Hope this helps for those that didn't make it or didn't understand the stream last night. Post questions if you need help and feel free to share.
-MASTER
I'm sure others have already either read, or seen the stream but this is just there to reiterate what was talked about yesterday, and for any new comers that join the Hayate Wind Clan. ;o
Anyways! So setups guys, let's talk about those now, feel free to contribute any that you find so we can develop this guy to be even more awesome, than he already is.
So here's some setups I have found so far. (BTW, these work with stun-launch as well)
CH 4K6K PPKK - 7P (19i)
CH 8P PPKK - 236K (20i)
CH 8K 8P PPKK - 9P (19i)
CH 33KK - 66P+K(Charged) (34i) / 6P+K P+K (34i)
33T - 6P+KK (37i)
4T - 236K (20i NEEDS TO BE DELAYED SLIGHTLY)
(Level 1 Stun) 33K/9K PPKK - Lightwieghts; 7P (19i) - Middleweights; 7P (19i)/4P (18i)/H+K (18i)/ [3]P (18i)
(Level 2 Stun/CH) 9KKK - 214K (32i)
Credited by Madian
So far those are the setups I've found, feel free to explore from there guys! Lab it up! ^^
This information applies to Hayabusa but the formula and the way of finding unholdable setups apply the same way for everyone else. (Remember this DOES NOT apply to roll back techrolls)
(In Dojo,Tatami)
Pick Hayabusa and go ahead and set the computer to tech roll and second action to hold. After doing that do the following set up and make sure to HOLD after the combo to see the hidden data and read the explanation below.
Normal hit Hayabusa QCF+Punch, then 8P,3PPP = +26 Frames on techroll and plus the cpu holding.
When you hold during an opponents recovery to find out the hidden frame data, You must take into consideration the initial frame of the hold. Normally the example above would have been -5 if the CPU did NOT hold which would mean you would only be +25 after doing the subtraction of your initial hold but, again, the game is also taking into account the initial frame of the hold. When both you and cpu hold then you cancel out the initial frame since both of you are doing the same move to find the same information and the game takes into account the CPU’s initial frame for the hold and yours. The end result is that the +26 is the correct amount of frame advantage.
Also +26 is the amount of frames your opponent cannot move. Theoretically speaking and assuming that your opponent decides to hold after the tech roll then the hold wouldn’t actually become active until the next following frame of you actually being able to move. +26 is your +advantage but the 27th frame means you can now move, block, attack or do something and the 28th frame would be the hold becoming active.
This theory make sense currently because the move that is currently unholdable is hayabusa's QCF+Punch after the techroll to the side, which according to the games Frame data is 25Frames but we all know it doesn't become active until the 27th frame.
I just showed you that you are allowed to move, block or do something on the 27th frame but the hold WILL NOT come out until the 28th frame. I know this to be true because if you set the CPU to attack instead of hold then the game will register the fact that he attacked on the 27th frame and will show a counter hit on the screen. This also applies to Sidestepping by the way.
The Sidestep doesn't become active until the 1st frame so if your opponent were to sidestep in this situation it would be considered NORMAL hit instead of counter hit because the set up didn't allow for the sidestep to have enough time to activate.
Apply this same formula from Hayabusa to your character and you will see that this applies to everyone in the cast and it will probably be the most consistent way to test unholdable set ups.
Hope this helps for those that didn't make it or didn't understand the stream last night. Post questions if you need help and feel free to share.
-MASTER
I'm sure others have already either read, or seen the stream but this is just there to reiterate what was talked about yesterday, and for any new comers that join the Hayate Wind Clan. ;o
Anyways! So setups guys, let's talk about those now, feel free to contribute any that you find so we can develop this guy to be even more awesome, than he already is.
So here's some setups I have found so far. (BTW, these work with stun-launch as well)
CH 4K6K PPKK - 7P (19i)
CH 8P PPKK - 236K (20i)
CH 8K 8P PPKK - 9P (19i)
CH 33KK - 66P+K(Charged) (34i) / 6P+K P+K (34i)
33T - 6P+KK (37i)
4T - 236K (20i NEEDS TO BE DELAYED SLIGHTLY)
(Level 1 Stun) 33K/9K PPKK - Lightwieghts; 7P (19i) - Middleweights; 7P (19i)/4P (18i)/H+K (18i)/ [3]P (18i)
(Level 2 Stun/CH) 9KKK - 214K (32i)
Credited by Madian
So far those are the setups I've found, feel free to explore from there guys! Lab it up! ^^
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