How are you playing Ein??

[ScattereDreams]

I want to ask how's everyone playing with Ein? For me, honestly, I can't get jiggy with him like I could in DOA4. 6P+K, and 4k were really good back then. I also heavily relied on 1K since it stunned on NH and was one of my main get in moves to start pressure. This time he seems to be STRICTLY a zone type of character where being up close seems rather pointless unless you're baiting out a CH status with 2p. However the downside to this move is that it becomes predictable. It's his only way upclose to really get in and take momentum. Well he also has PPP(Charge) 46K (which lacks range compared to hayates) and 236P. Anything else upclose is quite risky. The guy is stupid unsafe... Is playing him from afar the only way to go? I have no problem with execution, it's just I was hoping we'd be able to switch between play styles.

 

[Allan Paris]

Honestly, there's only 1 way to play him and that's zoning. He's such a monster at it he can get away with it, with people knowing that's all he is going to do. This does make his fights boring as all shit but if you are winning with it, who the fuck cares?

6P+K and 4K are good now, both were always unsafe as hell. They did make 4K slower, it use to be 13i now it's 16i. The kick still great, just not a smart tool to use when closer than mid range with him. The punch (6P+K) is still forcing a messed up situation on any type of hit.

He has no mix up game to consider switching his play style. Slow and deliberate, and he does not allow to many mistakes made against him.

 

[SilverForte]

1K is still a good tool with its followups, just stay at midrange.

 

[Tenryuga]

I play Ein at mid to long range and try to bait responses out of my opponent with movement and spacing tactics. When I have them near a wall or dangerzone I either try to apply wakeup pressure or feint a dash in to see if I can get em to whiff a wake up kick that I can punish and pick up a wall juggle from.

Up close all I'm doing is 2P pressure with the occasional 4P and throws to check SS. I fish for counter hit PK( 2 in 1 on CH, forces a mixup between bound or another follow up.) and 6KK at walls. 3K delay K is nice but not something to put on the screen often. That's pretty much all he can do in close range IMO.

 

[JAG THE GEMINI]

I try a combination of rushdown and whiffpunishment tactics... It´s rather unefficient ´till now.

I do miss old 6P+K...

 

[ScattereDreams]

Well, i'm letting him go until they make changes or w.e. Praying to the Goddess someone does something unsafe enough to land 6p+k

 

[xSA Mulatto]

if their good i blast em with a 2p in the beginning then hit them with a quick knockback then play the range game to get a feel for the opponent..if I know hes someone I can mow down easily ill go up close and work the mixup game. then if they counter too much spam grabs/OH's

 

[Step]

I pretty much just launch like crazy, knock my opponent out of the stun or wait patiently for my opponent to slow escape to keep offensive pressure with him since he has very limited mix-up

 

[ScattereDreams]

So, how are Ein players handling characters with i11 mids? As you know, you can't go 2p crazy against someone like Sarah who's 6p is i11, a true mid, and a high crush.

 

[Tenryuga]

You have to go about it differently there. His Jab still functions as a frame trap unless its Kasumi and Christie. Since they don't have to respect your speed and will try to outpoke you more often than not SS works well post 2P. You can also make a read with on their attack with a hold. I limit usage of my mids and condition them to deal with jabs while mixing in standing OH for anti SS. When they start 2Ping out of pressure alot that's when you start SS or bringing out the mids. If you have godlike ability to read 3T.

Other than that zone them out. Sarah and Kasumi have nothing on Ein when he is at ideal range. Christies JAK is annoying to deal with at both ranges but H+K and 2H+K will clip it when she is within range.

 

[xSA Mulatto]

So, how are Ein players handling characters with i11 mids? As you know, you can't go 2p crazy against someone like Sarah who's 6p is i11, a true mid, and a high crush.

sarah is fast yes but she from what I know works the inside game more then anything. Ein is ideally played at range and sarah with her speed is is still mid and high heavy. Play the range game and you shouldn't have too much to struggle with.

 

[Step]

So, how are Ein players handling characters with i11 mids? As you know, you can't go 2p crazy against someone like Sarah who's 6p is i11, a true mid, and a high crush.

I pretty much side-step sarah since majority of the time there gonna use that 11 mid p or her parry kick to get a stun

 

[TakedaZX]

Ein is less than effective in this game, though he is playable. He's got room for improvement but if given those opportunities, he can play the game really well. We'll just have to see what happens though.

I play an aggresive Ein. It works sometimes but it usually consist of a lot of situations that require making your opponent freeze so that you can throw them with 33T causing them to whack buttons. Controlling their flow in other words. That's me though. Everyone else wants to play defensive but I find that too tedious with Ein.

 

[ScattereDreams]

Offensive and defensive I think he's crappy. Defensive he reminds me of Ayane. When Ayane spaces she's baiting but mostly relying on the opponent fucking so she can get her whiff/throw punishment similar with Ein, well that's mostly all Ein when he's spacing. When he's up close he's easy to see through imo. Up close he's lenient with the exception of 4p; hence most Eins are going for a 2p to try to start their momentum or 3p. Everyone loves 3K, they try to delay the follow up CH hit launcher like the last Ein player before them didn't do that LOL. He's very limiting imo..

I see people trying to get in with 1k still which is risky when it's not worth the risk since 1k doesn't doesn't. 1KP is unsafe and 1k6p can be high crushed. His offensive hold is weak even on high counter and doesn't even reward him a good oki game. I think his ability to crush is decent. He has multiple low crushes and "okay" high crushes. His safety is decent compared to most, but could be better. His whiff punishment is all that much of a threat to me.

 

[TakedaZX]

Dude needs buffs

• 6P+K - 14i
• 4K - 13i
• New Strings
• 3K2K - Low sweep ender for more frame advantage
• 6K2K - 6K to 1K, shallow +5 stun on NH and deeper stun like 1K on CH for 6K2K on CH
• 6PP - Like Hayate's but no teleport
• 4P2KK - Like Hitomi's

[*][*]Guard Breaks

• 214K - +3
• 236K - +2
• 9PK - +2
• 8K/1KK/4P2KK/6H+KK4K - -2 (For space, not advantage)

[*]4K heights reworked

• NH: 6KK
• Stun to Launch: 6KK
• CH: 3P, 6KK
• HCH: 3P, PP6PK

[*]Extras

• 1KK/4P2KK - Aerial Bound (Example: CH 3P, 33K, 1KK B!, 6KK or 3P, WR K, 4P2KK B! 46P/236P
• Maybe 3K NH stun (as deep as CH)... MAYBE.
• 64H and 46H - Advanced Holds but... I'm lazy to post my ideas.

 

[Zeo]

Dude needs buffs.

Just had a terrible run with this guy today and I definitely agree on the buff front, the stuff he lost from 4 really hurt him. That said he needs that and a bit more. My list with a little help from Tenryuga.

DOA5U Ver.1.04 Ein

- 6P+K - i14 Frames
- 4K - i13 Frames
- H+K - i18 Frames
- 6KK - Added bound property.
- 4P - i12 Frames. Damage Increased to 21.
- 8P - bound property removed on CH/HCH, added Sit down stun effect. stun frames increased to +29
- 7K - Launch height increased by 0.10m, recovery decreased by 5 frames, damage increased to 32, 45, 57, respectively.
- P+K given CB (Critical Burst) status.
- 3P, 236P, 3K - "True Mid" status. No more of this getting crushed nonsense.
- 1KK - Bounce height increased.
- PP6PK - Added sidestep tracking.
- 4PP - NH stun increased to +17.
- 66F+P - Overall damage increased by 10.

Advantage/Safety
- PPP -4 on Block.
- PP(Charge)P - Reduced charge from 35 to 26 frames. Advantage reduced from +8 to +5 GB on block.
- P+K(Charge)P - Reduced charge from 36 to 25 frames. Advantage reduced from +9 to +6 GB on block.
- 4P+K - +10 GB on Block. Full charge increased to +40 GB.
- 7P - +18 GB on Block.
- 9PK - +0 GB on Block.
- 46K - +2 GB on Block.
- 3H+K - +4 GB on Block.
- 236K - +3 On Block.
- BT 4P - +10 GB on Block.
- H+KK - +2 on Block.
- BT 1P - +1 on NH.
- 1K - +2 on NH.
- 3P - +1 on NH
- 1KK -5 on Block.

New Moves
- 236H+K - Variant of BT 7K. i24 Frames, Unholdable, Mid Kick, +6 GB on Block, Tech Jump, No Tracking.
- 1K2K - DOA4 Hayate string.
- 4P2K6PK and all Hitomi variants.

 

[JayceeChris]

Nice list. I feel the same way about 6P+K. This move being so slow really hurts his whiff punish game a lot. Sometimes I just random 6P+K at long range as a zoning move and not as a whiff punisher.

Here's mine :

- 6P+K i14
- 4K i13~i14, Hits grounded, force tech roll
- 8P Add sit down stun effect on CH/HCH
- 1KK_8K -3~-4 on block
- P+K Add CB effect
- BT 1P as 1P -2 On hit, +17 On CH. So he can have a fast tracking low that won't get crushed (only by low crush moves).
- 6T Gives a consistent wall throw when the wall is behind Ein.
- 66T Add 7~10 dmg
- 46K +2~+3 on block

 

[Zeo]

Just that small list would help Ein greatly.

I'm not playing at the moment, is 7K unholdable or can it be held like Hayate's? Is there currently any reason to use this over 33K at any point?

 

[JayceeChris]

Yes 7K can be held, i don't think there's a reason to use it over 33K in the stun game.
However since the move tracks and is TJ, you can use it to catch your opponent sidestepping.

 

[Tenryuga]

I'm glad to see we are all having similar conclusions about this character and have similar buff ideas. That makes it easy to band together and blast team ninjas twitter to get the things we need. @TakedaZX started the #BuffHayate movement and saw success. Right here right now I declare the start of the #BuffEin movement! It is time we recieve a DOA5U Ein and not a tweaked DOAD Ein!

Also @Zeo we want 4P to be 23 damage. It already does 21 and is why it loses to mids outside of speed issues.

To add on to what @JayceeChris said I believe his 1P should be i15. Also his 33T should be exceeding Hitomi's damage. 70 points minimum 72 points max. He is a striker with less offensive pressure than some grapplers and has throw damage just slightly above Kasumi who has great offense. That needs to change.

Here is my list outside of what was already stated.

KK - Added tracking.
66PK variants- Bound on threshold break.
6KK - increased delay interval in addition to bound status on second hit.
New punch string that incorporates his 3P so he has a reliable mid in P strings. This will have a good delay.