How do you learn matchups?

[Sambo Swag]

I'm looking to learn matchups for Bayman, but information on that seems to be limited in the Bayman forums and other places online.

How do you guys learn matchups? Right now the best way seems to just learn the strengths and weaknesses of each character by playing as those characters.

EDIT: Please note that I'm asking how you guys would recommend learning matchups in general. If I wanted to be specific about Bayman I would have posted this in the Bayman forum.

 

[Awesmic]

Since this is in general, know your character inside out first. Then if you're having trouble adapting to a certain character, find someone who knows that character inside out, and match their best options to yours.

This frame-whatchamacallit is what people tend to use to best figure out what beats what or what has advantage or priority over the other. Basically you got starting frames, active frames, and recovery frames.

For example, if the starting frames are low, it's good, 'cause it has a good chance of hitting and quitting. But if it's high, it's slower than old people humping. If the recovery frames are low, that means it's as safe as using a condom. If the recovery frames are high, enjoy your AIDS, you played hella unsafe.

Once you get a good understanding of this and the other character's frame-thingy, it's easier to break down a strategy. But don't overwhelm yourself. Prioritize based on the usefulness of an opponent's moves you commonly see, then work your way on the other movesets later as you become more proficient.

 

[Brute]

Step 1) Become a Badass
You can't learn a match-up if you're totally inept with your own character, because you won't be able to apply their tools properly. Learn your character, learn your set-ups, learn your general gameplan. Then, reach a point where you can apply all of that to a fight.

Step 2) Become a Scholar
Study your character's frames and the opponent's character's frames. Learn their set-ups and their tools from a theoretical standpoint.

Step 3) Find another Badass Scholar
If you go and find randoms and try to test the match-up with them, you'll get a really silly perspective that consists of you mopping the floor with someone who is of lackluster skill and doesn't demonstrate the character properly. You need to find someone who knows the opposing character AND YOUR CHARACTER. They need to know the tools possessed by both characters to provide and accurate analysis.

Step 4) Have a Badass Scholar Fight
The only way to really know a match-up is to play it. Have consecutive sets and adapt well. Since you know your opponent's tools, you need to learn what to apply when to counter them, and vice-versa. Also, fight multiple people who use the character at this level. This is to weed out shortcomings and/or other irregularities that are specific to one player (everyone has them, to varying degrees).

Step 5) Have More Badass Scholar Fights
A lot more. This is the key and it's where a lot of people falter. To truly learn the match-up, you have to fight the character in question many times. Over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over...

Step 6) Do The Same Thing for Every Match-up You Wish To Learn
The more match-ups you know, the easier it will becomes, since you have more of a reference of where things stand going forward.

 

[tokiopewpew]

If the recovery frames are low, that means it's as safe as using a condom. If the recovery frames are high, enjoy your AIDS, you played hella unsafe.

I don't know if I should shed tears or scream with laughter about that comparison^^


Umm ... yea, if I might underline Brute's statement here:

Also, fight multiple people who use the character at this level. This is to weed out shortcomings and/or other irregularities that are specific to one player (everyone has them, to varying degrees).

This can be quite important if were talking about a character that is well-balanced in terms of his tools and available answers for most situations compared to other fighters, for example Hayate, Hitomi or Gen Fu (?). People can play them more offensive and more defensive, what means that your fight might sometimes proceed completely different on the same character. It will help you to adapt faster on players that are able to change their tactic very fast during a match (while adapting to you) and will make your playstyle more flexible.

 

[Sambo Swag]

Wow very good and well-thought out replies guys, thanks a lot! If anyone ever makes a beginner or tutorial guide discussing matchups I hope they reference your posts!

Since I'm still very new I think I'll continue working on exploring what Bayman can do (ty Brute). When I'm in training mode and waiting for matches, I practice holds by picking different opponents and defending against their basic strings. When I do this, I see that some characters may have more mids than highs, or vice versa. This knowledge has already helped me out in some matches in ranked!

Thanks Awesmic for your tips on frame data, I think that's very helpful. I know a lot of pro players in fighting games look for frame advantages and disadvantages as small as one frame, but I think looking for things that are generally safe or unsafe is a good and easier way to approach matchups for someone just getting into DoA.

O yea Tokyo that's good you emphasize that. It made me realize that I should probably do lobby's more, since it can sometimes be hard to figure out how an opponent is using their character in just one ranked match (aggressive, defensive.) Practicing adapting to someone in a lobby through repeated matches would probably help me adapt to players in general.

Let me know if you guys have any more advice, this is already helped my performance online !

 

[E-Mann]

Everyone's method is different with this. Sometimes I'll pick up the character for a week or two and use them in matches just to see what that particular character lacks and what they need to go on the offensive. Ofcourse like others I would like to play against a player who excels with that character but DOA is a VERY random game so I prefer to fight multiple experts with that character. Don't want my mind focusing on how that ONE player uses that character.

 

[Keith_Wayne]

Play that MU over And over again

 

[Bushido]

Step 1) Become a Badass
You can't learn a match-up if you're totally inept with your own character, because you won't be able to apply their tools properly. Learn your character, learn your set-ups, learn your general gameplan. Then, reach a point where you can apply all of that to a fight.

Step 2) Become a Scholar
Study your character's frames and the opponent's character's frames. Learn their set-ups and their tools from a theoretical standpoint.

Step 3) Find another Badass Scholar
If you go and find randoms and try to test the match-up with them, you'll get a really silly perspective that consists of you mopping the floor with someone who is of lackluster skill and doesn't demonstrate the character properly. You need to find someone who knows the opposing character AND YOUR CHARACTER. They need to know the tools possessed by both characters to provide and accurate analysis.

Step 4) Have a Badass Scholar Fight
The only way to really know a match-up is to play it. Have consecutive sets and adapt well. Since you know your opponent's tools, you need to learn what to apply when to counter them, and vice-versa. Also, fight multiple people who use the character at this level. This is to weed out shortcomings and/or other irregularities that are specific to one player (everyone has them, to varying degrees).

Step 5) Have More Badass Scholar Fights
A lot more. This is the key and it's where a lot of people falter. To truly learn the match-up, you have to fight the character in question many times. Over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over...

Step 6) Do The Same Thing for Every Match-up You Wish To Learn
The more match-ups you know, the easier it will becomes, since you have more of a reference of where things stand going forward.

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