How to engage on a side-stepper/Christie?

[Reikou]

Well, I just played a match against a pretty good Christie, and all she did was sidestep all my initiations with Jakeiho. It felt like there really wasn't anything I could do about it because it just ducks under H+K, the only opening tracking move Kokoro has.

Just for future reference, Is there anything I can do to initiate on a player like this?

 

[NightAntilli]

You've just discovered Kokoro's worst match up in the whole game. She's at a complete disadvantage against Christie. I've argued this in the tier list thread, but people said I was exaggerating... But Kokoro has no tools to reliably deal with Jakeiho at all. What you could theoretically do is the following, although they are VERY risky, and will probably fail, but, she has no better options...

- 66P+K. Since it's a 3 in 1, sometimes it'll hit her out of it.
- 46PP. The second punch is a mid that tracks. It'll come out fairly slow, and is unsafe. Chances are she'll crush the first punch, but, it's useful at a distance.
- Low grab. Chances are very slim that you can land this without getting hit in the face. But if you see a Christie player doing the same move over and over, and you know at which moment they'll go into Jakeiho, you can low grab her out of it.
- Try to focus on mids and lows in general. Moves like 1KK-4K/P/2P can be pretty useful, especially if you delay them a bit. Delaying is always a risk though. You can hit sidestepping opponents when your input is later than they sidestepped, but, you can also get hit for delaying, especially against someone as fast as Christie.

That's all I got...

 

[FlamingMuffin]

^ About sums it up. That, and try and space her/make her whiff and punish accordingly. Delaying is what I normally attempt.

 

[synce]

To downplay Kokoro's linearity you have to bait and punish... 66P all day every day

 

[E-Mann]

Being a Christie and Kokoro player I'd agree with Nightantilli. Christie is like the WORST match up against koko. The best options for the koko player are to be patient and wait for the Christie to leave an opening.

 

[Shoraku]

Lol yeah that's a hard match-up for Kokoro. My advice would be : anti-step ftw. Use them when you guess a jakeiho, because it would be faster. Also, try to bluff your opponent. A lot of Christie users would use the Jakeiho after a 3K because most of the follow-up are steppable. use 3KK with the good timing (or she could whiff it cuz its a high).

Also it's hard for Kokoro to keep a pressure on Christie since she has the most evasive move of the game. Using 6P+K after a force tech is a good idea thought because even if the 6P+K would be step by her Jakeiho, the follow-up Punch would touch her in counter hit. Try to mix with 3KK instead of 3K4K because the 4K wouldn't track her Jakeiho stance.

But, heh, this match-up is still viable for Kokoro. Don't forget to approach your opponent with tracking moves like 46PP. Okay it's punishable but it's a good option to stop Christie from distance, look out to her 214p whiff punish too and use 46PP to stop it.

And as said E-Mann, be patient. Keep blocking and punish. Not also with throws but try 6P+K, P which is a good option since P is trackable. Only a few players would block on low after punishable moves.

 

[FlamingMuffin]

6P+K P isn't a tracking move. You just have to double SS/JAK it, or even do it early enough to CH the P.

JAK with also go under Kokoro's 3KK/PKK/1KKK.

Its viable in the sense you can still win. Just have fun waiting, hoping the Christie player makes mistakes and/or gets predictable.

 

[Shoraku]

yep my bad. The followup isn't tracking. I know it, but with good timing, the 3KK will touch CH.
I agree, this match-up is really hard against good Christie players. Dealing with her Jakeiho is something hard.
You can also mind with 3K4K, Backdash. If you backdash, only two moves of Christie can reach you : 46P which is safe vs kokoro (-7) and do pretty nice damage but nothing more than a throw punish (even if you're -5, some people would try to throw after 3K4K because you're leaving BT). her Jakeiho P can touch you too. Because it is -12, you can punish it by NOT backdashing after you 3K4K, and then, just wait till the Christie player make her Jakeiho P and then punish. Watch out for her 46P whichi is safe, or try punish with your neutral throw.

 

[Bushido]

Kokoro may not have tracking, but she does have moves that can interrupt jak and step-kill. 3K, all of the elbows, 6KP, even the second punch of 6PPP will interrupt jak. Even if she double jaks, since there's a short time she's idle. The match takes patience, but don't be afraid to stay up close and apply pressure. Just play safer than usual. Pay attention to when she jaks and just interrupt her the moment she does. Also, punish jak's moves on block, most or all of them are unsafe and 6T punishable. Jak isn't all that special.

 

[Regick]

Yeah this is really a bad match up for Kokoro. Her F+K and her strings like 3KK are unsafe and very risky, especially against Christie, since her 2P+K sidestep avoids hights. The use of 46PP is a possible choice but it's more recommanded at range and it's unsafe too.

Of course playing safely at range trying to whiff punish is one of the best things you can do against her but since Kokoro has bad tracking moves, what you can do at close range to catch Christie's 2P+K follow ups is using the right strings depending of what your frame advantage is. Also the low grab is an option (even if risky). If your opponent always uses 2P+K you could try even Kokoro's 1F+P because if you guess right you have guaranteed damage plus mixup possibilities there.

After Kokoro's untechables because of her frame advantage, you can beat Christie's 2P+K follow ups with many of her strings, so you have good options there. But if you are at for example +5 you can't beat her 2P+K P/6P with moves like 6KP etc. So in those situations you can catch it using strings like P2K or PK.

Anyway I will never stop saying this: Kokoro desperately needs a good tracking mid or low in this game. I really hope in DOA5U she will have it.

 

[MajesticBlue]

Have any of you Kokoro players messed with the natural re tracking mechanics at all? It may still not help much against Christie but maybe more so in other matchups or situations that are understood very well. If I had time I would test it myself. F and 66 both should slightly track. At least it used to. Maybe something to mess with.

How is this match up at range? If Kokoro trys to keep her distance? If there is room to space I kinda have a feeling it isn't as bad. Once again though I have never been able to get the whole Jak into Jak into back Jak to do all that much for me. Plus Kokoro has such a good back dash.