I Am The Shadow... The True Self... [General Discussion]

[PuertoRicanStyL]

It really does suck playing her when there's lil lag spikes happening all over, lol. Almost pointless since you'll probably drop 90% of your teleport combos. It's fine if you're playing against someone with a decent connection though.

Also, would be nice if her SS was just a lil faster or had some kind of evasive properties to it. It's just as slow as her +, just with a SS before it. That's like a 30 frame move with those combined, lol (I'm jk, sorta). Or if it was just a different kind of punch, like her + after her teleport (not as strong obviously), it'd be a lot more useful. The way it is now, it's just too dang slow to be useful.

*edit*
I won't say it's useless. But it's very hard to utilize for me.. So far.

 

[D3taylz]

No. Natural combos are combos that are neither blockable or holdable as soon as the first hit is landed sucessfully. For example, PP is a natural combo for (as far as I know) every character.

http://www.freestepdodge.com/wiki/dead-or-alive-terminology/
See natural combo.

So if P4's KKK is not a natural combo what would you call it and other strings like it that cannot be blocked after the first hit?

 

[Tenryuga]

The K string is the way it is because the first hit is a NH stun. There is no name for stuff like that.

 

[D3taylz]

The K string is the way it is because the first hit is a NH stun. There is no name for stuff like that.

That makes a lot of sense actually. Right on thanks.

 

[synce]

So if P4's KKK is not a natural combo what would you call it and other strings like it that cannot be blocked after the first hit?

Most people just call them combos but combos in DOA aren't combos as in other fighting game since they're not guaranteed. There are very few true/natural combos in this game and they usually do laughable damage. The cool thing about P4 is she can get 100+ guaranteed off 4P but it's risky. They should make that move faster and safer

 

[Nightpup]

Most people just call them combos but combos in DOA aren't combos as in other fighting game since they're not guaranteed. There are very few true/natural combos in this game and they usually do laughable damage. The cool thing about P4 is she can get 100+ guaranteed off 4P but it's risky. They should make that move faster and safer

P4 can get , , Chifu guaranteed. If you stun before the 66K you can cancel Chifu K into Tenfu PP+K, Chifu P

 

[D3taylz]

P4 can get , , Chifu guaranteed. If you stun before the 66K you can cancel Chifu K into Tenfu PP+K, Chifu P

66K -> 9K isn't guaranteed unfortunately, 66K is only +11/12 or so on block on fastest SE (even on fast SE Im pretty sure you can block it), 9K is 16 frame start-up I think. So you can recover and just block and punish.

Now SSP is a +18 (or more) sit-down stun so 9K would be guaranteed but only at close range, SSP has a slight pushback so 9K can whiff in most cases since it has really limited range.

And I don't think the 66K is a natural combo (please correct me if Im wrong), pretty sure the 2nd hit can be countered.

 

[tokiopewpew]

66K -> 9K isn't guaranteed unfortunately, 66K is only +11/12 or so on block on fastest SE (even on fast SE Im pretty sure you can block it), 9K is 16 frame start-up I think. So you can recover and just block and punish.

True, 9K is not guaranteed after 66K. As you said, it can be SE'd easily.

And I don't think the 66K is a natural combo (please correct me if Im wrong), pretty sure the 2nd hit can be countered.

I would almost say it is, because the AI was not able to hold or block the second kick, even not with fastest SE and critical hold. Also, I wouldn't say it's a combo since you only have to press one attack button once with a direction.

I need some help with Phase 4 K during Chifu P+K. I have completed her Combo Challenge but I have did this randomly. I havent the feel that I have mastered her basic moves

Some more details would surely help to figure out what excactly you have problems with.

 

[Chapstick]

66K -> 9K isn't guaranteed unfortunately, 66K is only +11/12 or so on block on fastest SE (even on fast SE Im pretty sure you can block it), 9K is 16 frame start-up I think. So you can recover and just block and punish.

He didn't say 9K, he said 7K.

789
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As for Phase 4's 66K it's a 2-in-1. Can any 2-in-1's be held in this game?

 

[tokiopewpew]

No, they can't as far as I know. 7K is also not guaranteed btw.

 

[D3taylz]

He didn't say 9K, he said 7K.

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As for Phase 4's 66K it's a 2-in-1. Can any 2-in-1's be held in this game?

Yeah my mistake, I meant to write in 7K but put 9, it's a bad habit of mine.

 

[Nightpup]

No one's been able to stagger out of it against me. It might as well be guaranteed.

 

[D3taylz]

No one's been able to stagger out of it against me. It might as well be guaranteed.

Looked at it again, I was wrong about 7K, it's not 16 frames it's 14, AND 66K on Fast SE is +14 so it WILL work on most ppl, and like Tokyo said most ppl cant do a fastest SE - I sure as hell cant, at least consistently neway -_-

So it's pretty legit, I thought 66K had mush pushback but you end up right beside the OPP and they cant critical hold escape the 7K.

Still not 100% "guaranteed" but it'll work vs. most ppl.
Cheers.

 

[tokiopewpew]

D3taylz is right. There is a difference between guaranteed stuff and ... well let's say stuff that is hard to escape. You need to be hella fast if you want to SE in time after you got hit by 66K. Since humans aren't the AI which reacts as fast as the frames allow it, you can consider such kind of a setup as a very good opportunity.

However, don't get mad or get the term cheater or similar in mind when you will see someone that is able to escape your setup. Since it is not guaranteed, which can be proven by testing it with the AI, it's no witchcraft to get out of it.

Not saying you are someone who is acting like that, I'm just saying that in general because a lot of people get mad or salty if things they think that work always don't work on some players because they don't understand the game mechanics that are working there.

 

[Tenryuga]

For clarification purposes a single button press that gives you 2 or more free hits is known as a "X in 1". An example is Phase 4's 3P. A string / sequence of attacks that can not be guarded or held after the initial hit is called a "natural combo." Kasumi's 3PP with no delay qualifies as this.

 

[Nightpup]

For clarification purposes a single button press that gives you 2 or more free hits is known as a "X in 1". An example is Phase 4's 3P. A string / sequence of attacks that can not be guarded or held after the initial hit is called a "natural combo." Kasumi's 3PP with no delay qualifies as this.

Another example of a full natural combo is Rig's 6KK4KKK. ...Yes, the entire thing is guaranteed. Ridiculous, I know.

 

[Chapstick]

For clarification purposes a single button press that gives you 2 or more free hits is known as a "X in 1". An example is Phase 4's 3P. A string / sequence of attacks that can not be guarded or held after the initial hit is called a "natural combo." Kasumi's 3PP with no delay qualifies as this.

So "X-in-1's" don't have those properties

 

[Tenryuga]

Another example of a full natural combo is Rig's 6KK4KKK. ...Yes, the entire thing is guaranteed. Ridiculous, I know.

That last kick can actually be held but the first 4 hits are a natural combo.

So "X-in-1's" don't have those properties

Yes "X in 1's" have the same property as a natural combo just its more accurate to call them an "X in 1" considering you are getting more than one hit for one button.

 

[Nightpup]

That last kick can actually be held but the first 4 hits are a natural combo.

Not sure what you're talking about. The AI isn't holding it on my game.

 

[tokiopewpew]

Ten is right, it's holdable. Are you using the critical hold settings? If you only enable normal mid kick hold as reaction, the AI won't hold.