I Am The Shadow... The True Self... [General Discussion]

[Zephyrion]

Ok, well I tried a bit around with her . I noticed that when I do TEN~, the air throw does not always connect on lightweights. It tested it with and without high counter and fastest SE settings, sometimes it works, sometimes not. I can't figure out excactly what I'm doing wrong there, the timing feels quite strict to play around with it, so does that happen to anyone of you guys too?

Yeah this should happen to everybody ! Mainly depends on the combo. You have a few frames of leniency for each teleport you do in combos. So on some of the more advanced combos, teleporting early or late will affect your ender. For her hardest combos, you just need to practice on getting your TPs as fast as possible so that the opponent is high enough for the throw to connect. For this one, you just have to cancel into Tenfu on early frames for it to connect !

 

[tokiopewpew]

I try to do it as fast as possible, I don't feel like having a different timing on it always. Anyway, I also like her opportunity out of her jabs after it. If you go for Chifu , you reach stun level 3 very fast, which is pretty good imo. The P string can be hold with good reactions, though.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Posts deleted.

@ToKyo PewPew if you cannot continue a discussion respectfully then do not say anything. I'd advise you to think before you speak.

 

[PuertoRicanStyL]

Along with everything else, gotta really be on point withe her 66P,P, P+K move. Even though you can teleport on block with it (if you manage not to get low punched before the second P), you can still get stuffed out of all her follow options after the teleport with a low punch. Get mid punch or mid kicked against all her options after teleport except her P follow up. Or they can just simply do a fuzzy guard and defend against all of em in hope to get something off block.. It's best to not even teleport on block with that move, even though you can. Just because there's no guessing game after the teleport.

Most people I've played against always go for low punches right away after they block the first move from her. If I remember right, I think you can even stuff her follow up P after 1P on NH with a low and maybe high punch. Sad thing is, I think you can block the follow up even if the 1P hits on CH. But I don't know at the moment *shrugs*. I guess you're supposed to mainly use that in the stun game..

Been a long time since I've played. But I still love using her.

 

[tokiopewpew]

Sad but true. This is a major difference to Kasumi's teleport options. While her hoshinpo follow-ups P+K and 6P+K K can't be stopped with a low, all of Phase's chifu options after 66PP can be stopped this way.

Even if you free cancel after the teleport, you can still be hit with lows and don't get any advantage out of it, her mids are also too slow to prevent these lows. This is a reason why she cannot go for agressive pressure like Kasumi with it, imo.

 

[AmbientXVII]

Lol finally fought some peeps online. As expected, I got shrekt xD.

Which moves should I use for block strings? I have trouble maintaining any sort of pressure with Phase 4. And which moves should I use for extending stun? Right now I'm just alternating between 4P, 5P, 6P, and 6K lol.

Also, is there anything that can follow up on 5K or 5H+K that's not SE-able?

Should I practice against max SE, or is it fine leaving it off?

 

[Zephyrion]

Lol finally fought some peeps online. As expected, I got shrekt xD.

Which moves should I use for block strings? I have trouble maintaining any sort of pressure with Phase 4. And which moves should I use for extending stun? Right now I'm just alternating between 4P, 5P, 6P, and 6K lol.

Also, is there anything that can follow up on 5K or 5H+K that's not SE-able?

Should I practice against max SE, or is it fine leaving it off?

You should avoid doing blockstrings altogether with Phase 4, as she only has a few select moves that can't be throw punished, or are hard to throw punish mainly (), , +, and Chifu If you do something else and it is blocked , you will have to chose between cutting the string and hope the opponent doesn't react fast enough, or delay the string follow-up to try and catch a throw attempt and hope you don't get blocked or you WILL be thrown for sure. your focus with Phase should be getting at the right distance and punish every unsafe move and whiffed move to begin your stun game !

+ CH doesn't have any guaranteed follow-up, , have as guaranteed follow-up and as a possible follow-up. If you know for sure your opponent is stagger escaping, you should consider exploiting your frame advantage on those moves by using throws or throwing one of the aforementioned safe-ish moves.

The best moves to extend stun are undoubtedly the teleport ones, as they all lead to huge stun and mixups possibilities !
In order of frame advantage : / teleport or teleport, (Empty teleport into any move you want is even possible from those two , as long as said move isn't too slow) /+ teleport, teleport, teleport and teleport !
I don't recommend using the one as it doesn't stun for that long ! That being said, the moves you use are also fine, if you manage to mix it all up, you should have a pretty good stun game with her !

Finally, for the SE, most of the average players will stagger escape at "fast",but it is perfectly possible to stagger escape at "fastest", and I know that the better players (not me, for now, clearly) can do it. If possible, try out the two each time, to see if something will "work most of the time" or will "work even if the other person can spin his stick at the speed of sound" !

 

[tokiopewpew]

Which moves should I use for block strings? I have trouble maintaining any sort of pressure with Phase 4. And which moves should I use for extending stun? Right now I'm just alternating between 4P, 5P, 6P, and 6K lol.

For that, I just would quote Hajin here because his statement fits it pretty well:

She has no "on block strings" or the kind of strings used to open you up. She has neutral pokes, P, K, 6P, 2P, 1P hi crush, etc.

You can't apply real pressure with Phase since she is very unsafe and quite slow with a lot of moves. 3P is a good stun extender, as well as K, 6K and her jabs. With using some jabs in between, you can also prevent that your opponent is able to get out of the stun with SE'ing.

 

[AmbientXVII]

Alrighty. Thanks guys, off to the lab again :3

 

[Chapstick]

I watched through this arcade video Project Bokuho posted a couple days ago for Nyotengu gameplay and was surprised by how good a Phase 4 player was.

30:53 to 39:09, 59:20 to 1:11:41

Some nice Nyotengu play throughout the whole vid as well for anyone interested.

 

[PuertoRicanStyL]

I watched through this arcade video Project Bokuho posted a couple days ago for Nyotengu gameplay and was surprised by how good a Phase 4 player was.

30:53 to 39:09, 59:20 to 1:11:41

Some nice Nyotengu play throughout the whole vid as well for anyone interested.

Nice. Some good use of her 6P and 1P in there. Her 6P is a good poker because even though it's throw punishable, the person blocking has to decide right away to go for a throw or not. The fact she can do another hit after that causes people to hesitate enough to lose the advantage to do so. Which is why most I've played always just go for low punches after they block or even get hit with something.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong. But I think every character is throw punishable for like, 85% of their moves on block if the string is stopped/canceled anywhere. It's just the threat that they can keep going is what can make them safe.

Phase just doesn't have long strings, so it's easier to get throws on her when you're not careful. I think 4 inputs/hit moves is the longest she has. Like I said earlier, she is just way more yomi based than other characters cause you have to decide if you should finish x string or not depending on what you think they might do. Have to really be in your opponents head to get her stuff to land, most of the time anyways. She reminds me of Akira in a sense. Except Akira has that godlike elbow to throw out. Even though his hurtbox seems to stick out farther on that move (and others) than his hit box, lol.

 

[Zephyrion]

Nice. Some good use of her 6P and 1P in there. Her 6P is a good poker because even though it's throw punishable, the person blocking has to decide right away to go for a throw or not. The fact she can do another hit after that causes people to hesitate enough to lose the advantage to do so. Which is why most I've played always just go for low punches after they block or even get hit with something.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong. But I think every character is throw punishable for like, 85% of their moves on block if the string is stopped/canceled anywhere. It's just the threat that they can keep going is what can make them safe.

Phase just doesn't have long strings, so it's easier to get throws on her when you're not careful. I think 4 inputs/hit moves is the longest she has. Like I said earlier, she is just way more yomi based than other characters cause you have to decide if you should finish x string or not depending on what you think they might do. Have to really be in your opponents head to get her stuff to land, most of the time anyways. She reminds me of Akira in a sense. Except Akira has that godlike elbow to throw out. Even though his hurtbox seems to stick out farther on that move (and others) than his hit box, lol.

You're correct for the most part, but if almost every move is - block in DoA, most of them don"t go beyond -6 or -7, (except lows and specific mid-string moves most of the time) meaning you can only be neutral thrown (this one is techable). What gives Phase 4 this extra layer of unsafeness is that she is often -10 or more on most of her moves, meaning you can 6T her out of things without even having to time your throw perfectly.

 

[StrikerSashi]

Even Kokoro's 6P is -12 on block. :v

 

[tokiopewpew]

What gives (Alpha) Phase this extra layer of unsafeness is that she is often -10 or more on most of her moves, meaning you can 6T her out of things without even having to time your throw perfectly.

Why did TN put an Alpha in her full name ? Confusion inc.

 

[Zephyrion]

Even Kokoro's 6P is -12 on block. :v

Yeah a lot of 6Ps are unsafe by themselves, but most of them either lead to some sort of mixup/stance game, or have a relatively safe option on block ! Phase 4 is one of the few characters who doesn't have either of those.

Why did TN put an Alpha in her full name ? Confusion inc.

Yeah, reflex for Kasumi Alpha, my bad ! I edited it so all clean !

 

[David Gregg]

I watched through this arcade video Project Bokuho posted a couple days ago for Nyotengu gameplay and was surprised by how good a Phase 4 player was.

People continue to underestimate her but P4 has a lot of potential it just takes practice.

 

[Chapstick]

People continue to underestimate her but P4 has a lot of potential it just takes practice.

The same can be said for your main.

 

[David Gregg]

The same can be said for your main.

Fair enough. XD However the potential for P4 is greater compared to Eliot imo. People do often underestimate Eliot though (but he definitely needs some buffs. )

 

[Shadow985]

People continue to underestimate her but P4 has a lot of potential it just takes practice.

That video shows what happens once she scores a hit on you. We KNOW that once her stun game gets going it's mixup city. The problem with her is scoring a hit on someone playing smart. I get similar results with her in ranked as in that video, but when I run her vs good/ defensive players, I can barely get a clean hit unless I commit to something hella unsafe on a hunch.

 

[tokiopewpew]

I agree with Shadow. That Hitomi player underestimated her stun game and counterhit-ability and made it easily for Maleficent to land a stun by attacking from disadvantage after block and pressing too much buttons in general, especially after getting up. Of course, Maleficent had a nice defense (SE, good sidestepping and good holds), but come on, honestly ... no solid (tournament) player get's hit by Phase's 9PK that much and allows her to land a stun that easily. ... and would pick the dojo stage


Open up a careful player with good spacing game and good defense in general can be hella difficult.